Power Data Estimates for the climbing stages

[Zoncolan]

I remembered it like that but watching the vid again Pippo goes to the front once they have gapped Schleck and then is out of the saddle for pretty much the whole of the rest of climb.

There was some real comedy gold in that Tour

Piepoli always pushed a big gear, that is why he climbs out of the saddle a lot (also, weighing less than 60 kilos might help). I don't see that as proof of doping.

 

[webvan]

Can any meaningful calculation be made in relation to that stage given how uneventful it was to begin with and how short the sprint was at the end?

Still mighty impressive to be able to sprint for 1km with a slope of 11%...I shudder to think what the wattage might be for a 70kg guy, got to be close to 500, no?

 

[roundabout]

Just watched my recording of pena cabarga, last km : 2'30" -> 24km/h with an average slope of 11%, not bad...

Your recording is off by a minute or so.

21:08-24:33 final km in this video

http://www.rtve.es/alacarta/videos/...-pena-cabarga-07-09-11-segunda-parte/1191756/

Edit: the wattage is around 500, yes.

 

[webvan]

Oops, my bad, HD must have frozen, revised time : 3'25", average speed of 17.7km/h, still not too shabby ad 6.5w/kg (or 452 watts for Cobo with an 8kg bike) according to http://www.rst.mp-all.de/bergauf.htm

 

[Winterfold]

Piepoli always pushed a big gear, that is why he climbs out of the saddle a lot (also, weighing less than 60 kilos might help). I don't see that as proof of doping.

No it isn't - it just means it's easy to tell who's at the front

The ridiculous speed and failed drugs test provide the proof of doping

 

[halamala]

Froome @ Pena Cabarga : 6-3 Km 6.7 W/kg , 2-0 Km 7.3 W/kg

Vuelta a Espana 2011, Stage 17, Final climb Pena Cabarga

Chris Froome

From 6 Km banner to 3 Km banner [Distance 3.0 Km]

Elevation / Höhenmeter [m] : 280 m [Source]
Distance / Streckenlänge [Km] : 3.0 Km [Source]
Time in seconds / Fahrzeit in Sekunden [sec] : 525 = 8 min 45 sec = 8:45
Weight rider / Gewicht Fahrer [kg] : 72 kg
Weight bicycle, clothes etc. / Gewicht Fahrrad [kg] : 8 kg

Grade / mittlere Seigung : 9.3 %
Average speed / mittlere Geschwindigkeit : 20.5 Km/h
Total weight / Gesamtgewicht : 80.0 kg

Power : 486.9 Watt
Power / kg : 6.7 Watt / kg

From 2 Km banner to the finish line

Elevation / Höhenmeter [m] : 225 m
Distance / Streckenlänge [Km] : 2.0 Km
Time in seconds / Fahrzeit in Sekunden [sec] : 375 = 6 min 15 sec = 6:15
Weight rider / Gewicht Fahrer [kg] : 72 kg
Weight bicycle, clothes etc. / Gewicht Fahrrad [kg] : 8 kg

Grade / mittlere Seigung : 11.2 %
Average speed / mittlere Geschwindigkeit : 19.2 Km/h
Total weight / Gesamtgewicht : 80.0 kg

Power : 529.2 Watt
Power / kg : 7.3 Watt / kg

From 1 Km banner to the finish line

Elevation / Höhenmeter [m] : 120 m
Distance / Streckenlänge [Km] : 1.0 Km
Time in seconds / Fahrzeit in Sekunden [sec] : 204 = 3 min 24 sec = 3:24
Weight rider / Gewicht Fahrer [kg] : 72 kg
Weight bicycle, clothes etc. / Gewicht Fahrrad [kg] : 8 kg

Grade / mittlere Seigung : 12.0 %
Average speed / mittlere Geschwindigkeit : 17.6 Km/h
Total weight / Gesamtgewicht : 80.0 kg

Power : 510.0 Watt
Power / kg : 7.0 Watt / kg

Source: [ http://www.rst.mp-all.de/bergauf.htm ]


I think that 2 Km banner is located in a wrong place.

 

[Fergoose]

Thank you. A particularly "impressive" performance given that they didn't appear to be taking the first half of the climb quite as easily as I had thought (i.e. they shouldn't have been as fresh as a daisy when they exploded with 1km to go).

If and only if it is easy to do, could similar figures be done for Mollema. Because the climb is so short it is difficult what sort of w/kgs figure could be considered humanly possible. Mollema's figures would probably assist in providing some context (I made it that he lost 19 seconds in the last km alone to our two fine champions to crawl across the line as third best on the day). Obviously if such a calculation isn't deemed worthwhile then please just disregard this request.

Also, is there a minimum distance on a climb where the mythical 6.2 w/kg figure becomes applicable (e.g. it only applies on a climb of 10 or more kms). Thanks.

 

[jordan5000]

W/kg of former riders?

I'm curious, does anyone have w/kg data from former greats such as Bartoli, Coppi, Merckx, Pantani, Armstrong and others so we can compare them to riders such as Contador and Schleck. I think you could get these numbers if you had the weights of the rider and bikes and the time for some of their best climbs but I can't find this info, thanks.

 

[Bumeington]

Thank you. A particularly "impressive" performance given that they didn't appear to be taking the first half of the climb quite as easily as I had thought (i.e. they shouldn't have been as fresh as a daisy when they exploded with 1km to go).

If and only if it is easy to do, could similar figures be done for Mollema. Because the climb is so short it is difficult what sort of w/kgs figure could be considered humanly possible. Mollema's figures would probably assist in providing some context (I made it that he lost 19 seconds in the last km alone to our two fine champions to crawl across the line as third best on the day). Obviously if such a calculation isn't deemed worthwhile then please just disregard this request.

Also, is there a minimum distance on a climb where the mythical 6.2 w/kg figure becomes applicable (e.g. it only applies on a climb of 10 or more kms). Thanks.

6 W/kg ---> 1 hour
6.2 W/kg ---> 40 mins (typical tour finish climb time e.g. plateau de beille, alpe d'Huez)

It's actually interesting to see Cobo and Froome doing nearly 7 W/kg for 20 minutes (I don't think this is ludicrous) since Horner did 6.6 or something for 20 minutes in the tour of cali, so it's nice to know Horner's not actually the best!

 

[karlboss]

6 W/kg ---> 1 hour
6.2 W/kg ---> 40 mins (typical tour finish climb time e.g. plateau de beille, alpe d'Huez)

It's actually interesting to see Cobo and Froome doing nearly 7 W/kg for 20 minutes (I don't think this is ludicrous) since Horner did 6.6 or something for 20 minutes in the tour of cali, so it's nice to know Horner's not actually the best!

7.0 for 20 minutes, where does that come from?

 

[El Pistolero]

I'd like to see Gilbert's w/kg when he's doing one of his accelerations. It must be insanely high.

 

[acoggan]

Well, power is pretty variable, especially in races but even sometimes just when doing normal on-the-road training. That makes mean wattage a poor estimator of the overall workout or race stress. Andy developed NP as a step in a bigger picture way of quantifying stress by intensity and "exposure time" to that intensity. From a historical perspective, he actually had the idea of a PMC first, and worked backward to figure out how to model "fitness" and "freshness" and then training stress via its components of intensity and quantity. He needed NP for the intensity measure.

To expand on that: while the Performance Manager is an abstract version of/is based upon Bannister's TRIMP modeling, the normalized power algorithm is (AFAIK) completely novel. The validity of the construct therefore rests on my shoulders, and mine alone.

(While I'm at it: power profiling was obviously inspired by the numerous pacing tables, e.g., Daniels', that exist in running. Similarly, people have long used power and cadence to derive pedal force and velocity and plot them against each other. However, I believe I'm the first to recognize/exploit the connection between functional threshold power, self-selected cadence, and motor unit recruitment, which is what makes quadrant analysis unique.)

 

[maltiv]

I'd like to see Gilbert's w/kg when he's doing one of his accelerations. It must be insanely high.

He did the last kilometer of Fleche Wallone at 8,4 w/kg, or 2520 VAM.

 

[halamala]

TRAININGPEAKS ANALYSIS: CHRIS FROOME'S VUELTA BREAKTHROUGH - Team Sky Tech Channel

Chris Froome's power charts from the Vuelta showing peak power and Training Stress Scores.

Chris Froome's power distribution from the Vuelta indicates his functional threshold power.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

How would people interpret Froome's data regarding whether he is charging or not?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

How would people interpret Froome's data regarding whether he is charging or not?

That if he isn't charging then the talent scouts, Froome himself, Barloworld and Team Sky are complete idiots for not wringing some kind of results out of him. Illness and injuries can be pointed to, but even so you'd have expected him to post SOME results better than he had done pre-Vuelta.

 

[mb2612]

Also that I find it highly suspicious that there is no data released for the three big mountain stages. I am confident those number would be higher than the max values posted

 

[Escarabajo]

that if he isn't charging then the talent scouts, froome himself, barloworld and team sky are complete idiots for not wringing some kind of results out of him. Illness and injuries can be pointed to, but even so you'd have expected him to post some results better than he had done pre-vuelta.

+11111111111111111111

 

[Le breton]

Top of ventoux

+11111111111111111111

I am not answering to Escarabajo in particular.

The altitude of Ventoux for cyclists is often quoted at 1909 or 1912 m.

I remember reading 1897 m for the top of the road, but can't remember where.

Looking for a walk to do tomorrow in Haute-Savoie, it occured to me that I could find similar info on Ventoux.

Here it is

http://www.visugpx.com/?i=1277673671&ign&big

If you look at the map carefully you will see that the road never goes above 1900m

The words I used to search on google were

ventoux rando IGN

PS : you can also see that the start of the climb where normally timed from is between 308 and 310meters.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Anyone have Cobo's time up the Angliru in comparison to Heras, Simoni and Contador? The whole climb..not just the last 5k?

Spanish Wikipedia has 43' 44" for Cobo. 6th time ever behind Heras in 2000, Contador in 2008, Laiseka and Tonkov in 2000, and, by a couple seconds, Heras in 2002? I think so.

Only a super charged 2000 Heras had a much better time.

Simoni was in a breakaway and was almost definitely slower than Cobo. Had to have been. Does anyone know?



Fastest ascent times per year according to Wiki

1999: Jimenez & Tonkov - 44' 50"
2000: Heras - 41' 55"
2002: Heras - 43' 41"
2008: Contador - 43' 12"
2011: Cobo - 43' 44"

Looks like Tonkov (2000), Laiseka (2000) and Valverde (2008) also had times faster than 44' 00".

 

[halamala]

Spanish Wikipedia has 43' 44" for Cobo. 6th time ever behind Heras in 2000, Contador in 2008, Laiseka and Tonkov in 2000, and, by a couple seconds, Heras in 2002? I think so.

Only a super charged 2000 Heras had a much better time.

Simoni was in a breakaway and was almost definitely slower than Cobo. Had to have been. Does anyone know?



Fastest ascent times per year according to Wiki

1999: Jimenez & Tonkov - 44' 50"
2000: Heras - 41' 55"
2002: Heras - 43' 41"
2008: Contador - 43' 12"
2011: Cobo - 43' 44"

Looks like Tonkov (2000), Laiseka (2000) and Valverde (2008) also had times faster than 44' 00".

Vuelta a Espana 2000, Angliru

From 10 Km banner to the finish line (= Distance 10.0 Km)

Heras 33:23
Simoni 35:46

Last 10 Km: Heras was 2:23 faster than Simoni.

I'm not able to calculate the whole climb.

 

[jens_attacks]

the time of cobo on spanish wiki is not accurate,someone should edit it maybe.
the riders catched by the camera beginning l'angliru are in fact the wiggins group which was let behind on the descent by the liquigas train.cobo was up front with them at 12-13 sec
these are the times clocked by myself,anybody is welcomed to correct me:

2011:12,6 km@10%---43:57---average speed 17.20 km/h(Juan Jose Cobo)
2008:12,6 km@10%---43:12---average speed 17.50 km/h(Alberto Contador)
2002:12,6 km@10%---43:41---average speed 17.30 km/h(Roberto Heras)
2000:12,6 km@10%---41:55---average speed 18.03 km/h(Roberto Heras)
1999:12,6 km@10%---44:50---average speed 16.86 km/h(Jose Maria Jimenez-Pavel Tonkov)


also i found this on another forum(cicloweb i think) posted by a member(those aren't verified by me)


Last 7 km

2002 Heras 27'51''
2000 Heras 27'55''
2011 Cobo 28'20''
2008 Contador 28'50''
2011 Poels 29'08''
2011 Menchov 29'08''
2011 Froome 29'08''
2000 Tonkov 29'24''
2000 Laiseka 29'24''
2002 Beloki 29'26''
1999 Jimenez J. 29'29''
2002 Casagrande Fr. 29'32''
2008 Valverde 29'32''
2011 Wiggins 29'41''
2011 Anton 29'41''
2002 Mayo 29'45''
2008 Rodriguez 29'48''
2000 Rumsas 29'53'' (circa)
2011 Rodriguez 29'55''
2011 Monfort 29'55''
2011 Mollema 29'55''
2011 Lagutin 29'55''
2008 Leipheimer 29'55''
2000 Simoni 30'00'' (circa)
2002 Gonzalez Aitor 30'07''
2002 Di Luca 30'07''
2002 Simoni 30'07''
1999 Beltran 30'12'' (circa)
2002 Casero A. 30'13''
1999 Tonkov 30'14'' (circa)
2008 Sastre 30'22'
2002 Jeker 30'25''
1999 Heras 30'30''
1999 Piepoli 30'32'' (circa)
2002 Garcia Casas 30'33''
2000 Escartin 30'43''
2008 Gesink 30'46'
2000 Beltran 30'49'' (circa)
2000 Virenque 30'56'' (circa)
2008 Cunego 31'00'' (circa)
2000 Del Olmo 31'05'' (circa)
2008 Mosquera 31'08''
2000 Gentili 31'09'' (circa)
1999 Olano 31'13''
2008 Zaugg 31'18''
2000 Casero A. 31'36''
2008 Moreno 31'51''
1999 Galdeano I. 32'08'' (circa)
1999 Laiseka 32'08'' (circa)
1999 Ullrich 32'14''
1999 Rubiera 32'14''


first ten time ascents on every angliru occasion.

 

[halamala]

Simoni @ Angliru, Vuelta 2000

I'm using VLC Media Player.

Time 31:36 / 1:08:36

Time 59:54 / 1:08:36

Last 7 Km: 28:18

 

[jens_attacks]

those aren't verified by me but i'm sure simoni didn't go that fast.
he was suffering like a dog,almost doing zig-zags.he lost more than 3 minutes on heras i think on the whole ascent.but he had a good gap at the base of the climb
going almost as fast as heras is not possible

it's better to have an official banner on the course as a reference point not a graphic.that's not trusty

 

[halamala]

Heras @ Angliru, Vuelta 2000

Time 36:12 / 1:08:36

Time 1:02:53 / 1:08:36

Last 7 Km: 26:41

Heras was 1:37 faster that Simoni.