Pozzovivo = pots-of-epo

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Cycle Chic said:
so how does his performance differ from Tiernan-Locke or Froome ?? who also have dodgey super riding achievements recently...and who are berated for it. I agree they should be questioned...i am not an anglophile.
Rider Team Time
1 Alberto Contador (ESP) Astana 89h 56' 49"
2 Riccardo Riccò (ITA) Saunier Duval-Scott + 1' 57"
3 Marzio Bruseghin (ITA) Lampre + 2' 54"
4 Franco Pellizotti (ITA) Liquigas + 2' 56"
5 Denis Menchov (RUS) Rabobank + 3' 37"
6 Emanuele Sella (ITA) CSF Group-Navigare + 4' 31"
7 Jurgen Van Den Broeck (BEL) Silence-Lotto + 6' 30"
8 Danilo Di Luca (ITA) LPR Brakes-Ballan + 7' 15"
9 Domenico Pozzovivo (ITA) CSF Group-Navigare + 7' 53"
10 Gilberto Simoni (ITA) Diquigiovanni-Androni + 11' 03"

him doing something at the giro really is something never seen before ;) totally like JTL and froome
 
Aug 12, 2010
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Cycle Chic said:
so how does his performance differ from Tiernan-Locke or Froome ?? who also have dodgey super riding achievements recently...and who are berated for it. I agree they should be questioned...i am not an anglophile.
Comparing him to Froome or Tiernan Locke is just utter nonsense. Pozzovivo is now in his 8th year as a pro, if you look at this results he has gradually improved year on year. he has 9 victores to his credit, where as Froome has just 1 and TL nothing at pro level til this year. it is not liek he has suddenly come out of nowhere this season and started winning races for first time in his career. he was 6th last year in Lombardia for example. has won Brixia tour before, also finsihed on podium at Trentino previously as well. This season is hardly a revelation.

maybe you should have done a bit more research before opening this thread?
 
Aug 18, 2009
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Cycle Chic said:
so how does his performance differ from Tiernan-Locke or Froome ??
Not so familiar with Tiernan-Locke's background, but he was a little known rider on a conti team unexpectedly beating ProTour climbers, so you could call that a breakout. The Tour of the Mediterranean which he won is in the early season though and it's not a major stage race, so don't want to read too much into that either.

I remember checking at the time of the Vuelta last year that Froome had really never done anything in a stage race before, and then he nearly won a Vuelta. That is IMO solid cause for suspicion.

Pozzovivo on the other hand has been considered an outside contender for the Giro for the last three years, is the established leader of his squad, and has overall victories in difficult Italian stage races in his palmares. The most suspicious thing about him is that he was on the 2008 CSF-Navigare team which was notorious because of Emanuele Sella. And that was in 2008. Your response seems to be based on his being a 'new' rider, and being an unbeatable climber on a par with Contador. Neither is the case - he's a minor favourite in the Giro like always. There'smaybe a bit of hype around him in Italy because he's a homeboy and he finally got a Giro stage win.
 
Oct 30, 2011
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taiwan said:
Not so familiar with Tiernan-Locke's background, but he was a little known rider on a conti team unexpectedly beating ProTour climbers, so you could call that a breakout. The Tour of the Mediterranean which he won is in the early season though and it's not a major stage race, so don't want to read too much into that either.

I remember checking at the time of the Vuelta last year that Froome had really never done anything in a stage race before, and then he nearly won a Vuelta. That is IMO solid cause for suspicion.

Pozzovivo on the other hand has been considered an outside contender for the Giro for the last three years, is the established leader of his squad, and has overall victories in difficult Italian stage races in his palmares. The most suspicious thing about him is that he was on the 2008 CSF-Navigare team which was notorious because of Emanuele Sella. And that was in 2008. Your response seems to be based on his being a 'new' rider, and being an unbeatable climber on a par with Contador. Neither is the case - he's a minor favourite in the Giro like always. There'smaybe a bit of hype around him in Italy because he's a homeboy and he finally got a Giro stage win.
A stage win by a Southern Italian in South Italy, no less.
 
Sep 26, 2009
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ok so that was a crap example - i was just trying tomake the point that he has had no results to talk of until very recently and now suddenly he IS MR SUPERCLIMBER .....he,s got nothing to shout about until 2010....

http://www.cyclingarchives.com/coureurfiche.php?coureurid=11870

and suddenly he is Senor Contador. And his team has a very dodgey history.

Anyway enough on this thread....doesnt look like anyone agrees.
 
Cycle Chic said:
so how does his performance differ from Tiernan-Locke or Froome ?? who also have dodgey super riding achievements recently...and who are berated for it. I agree they should be questioned...i am not an anglophile.
Because they came from achieving next to nothing to winning small races in dominant fashion (Tiernan-Locke, though he may be en route to being the next Pecharromán if he is unable to duplicate that spell) and to contending Grand Tours (Froome).

You asked where Pozzovivo's results were after 2010, but in 2011 he actually scored 841 CQ points and outscored 2010, and ranked 32nd in the world for 2011.

Here's the notables of Domenico's palmarès.

2005:
5th, Giro dell'Apennino
14th, Giro del Trentino
114 CQ pts

2007:
3rd, Settimana Lombarda
16th, Giro del Trentino
17th, Giro d'Italia
14th, Volta a Portugal
30th, Giro di Lombardia
223 CQ pts

2008:
3rd, Giro del Trentino
9th, Giro d'Italia (inc. 2nd on Fedaia stage and 8th to Kronplatz)
5th, Brixia Tour
22nd, Giro di Lombardia
391 CQ pts

2009: (CSF were not invited to the Giro that year after Sella's and Priamo's indiscretions)
6th, Settimana Coppi e Bartali
1 stage, Settimana Lombarda
5th, Giro del Trentino (6th to Pampeago & 4th to Pejo Fonti)
9th, Tour de Luxembourg
3rd, Tour de Slovénie
9th, Giro dell'Appennino
2nd, Brixia Tour
7th, Trofeo Melinda
6th, Coppa Sabatini
476 CQ pts

2010:
7th, Tirreno-Adriatico
3rd, Giro del Trentino (& stage win to Pampeago)
2nd, Giro dell'Appennino
1st (& 2 stage wins), Brixia Tour
4th, Trofeo Matteotti
2nd, Tre Valli Varesine
5th, Trofeo Melinda
2nd, Giro della Romagna
6th, Coppa Sabatini
6th, Giro dell'Emilia
7th, Gran Piemonte
797 CQ pts

2011:
7th, Tour de Langkawi
10th, Settimana Coppi e Bartali
4th, Vuelta a Castilla y León
4th, Giro del Trentino
6th, Giro della Toscana
2nd, Brixia Tour (& a stage win on Passo Maniva)
2nd, Tre Valli Varesine
3rd, Trofeo Matteotti
5th, Settimana Lombarda
8th, Giro di Padania
10th, Coppa Sabatini
8th, Giro dell'Emilia
6th, Giro di Lombardia
841 CQ pts

So really, it looks like he actually made the jump in 2010, when CSF were able to ride the big stage races again, but he had also been able to develop an ability to pick up results in those moderately hilly Italian one-day races that make up a large part of that national calendar. Also, the switch in the team make-up from CSF-Navigare in 2009 to Colnago-CSF in 2010, where much of the team was purged and rebuilt around him, has enabled him to ride much more as leader.

If you can't see how that palmarès is enormously superior to Chris Froome's prior to August 2011, or Jonathan Tiernan-Locke's prior to February 2012, and therefore his performing at this level isn't enormously shocking, then I really don't know what your expectations are.

The insinuation that Pozzovivo is doping isn't exactly an earth-shatterer. But the implication that he has come out of nowhere is highly disrespectful.
 
It's also pretty silly to keep saying he's dropping everyone and riding like Contador, when all he did was win on an easy climb, where only Intxausti tried to follow after a while (and who didn't lose any more time to him on the climb once he went), especially after he lost time the other day.

Oh, and I like how you lump Costa Ricans, Venezuelans and Colombians together like that. What does Amador have to do with Rujano or Henao? Might as well say they're all from the Americans and throw in Hesjedal too.
 
Aug 18, 2009
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Cycle Chic said:
ok so that was a crap example - i was just trying tomake the point that he has had no results to talk of until very recently and now suddenly he IS MR SUPERCLIMBER .....he,s got nothing to shout about until 2010....

http://www.cyclingarchives.com/coureurfiche.php?coureurid=11870

and suddenly he is Senor Contador. And his team has a very dodgey history.

Anyway enough on this thread....doesnt look like anyone agrees.
You're trolling. Noone can genuinely fail to understand that many replies to their posts, and then restate the same daft stuff.

Congratulations though, for creating a standard vague accusatory thread in the clinic and having no agreement whatsoever. Not easy to do. ;)
 
Cycle Chic said:
ok so that was a crap example - i was just trying tomake the point that he has had no results to talk of until very recently and now suddenly he IS MR SUPERCLIMBER .....he,s got nothing to shout about until 2010....

http://www.cyclingarchives.com/coureurfiche.php?coureurid=11870

and suddenly he is Senor Contador. And his team has a very dodgey history.

Anyway enough on this thread....doesnt look like anyone agrees.
doesn't look like any1 agrees. . . . with you, simply because your arguments make no sense at all.

also hortha and libertine's posts say all it needs to be said about domenico to be honest, if after reading them you still can't get the whole picture, it is not our fault but your own.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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Looking at Pozzovivo's career & results he strikes me as an old style 80's climber in the mould of Millar, Herrera etc. Nothing untoward at all in his riding, IMO.
 
Oct 30, 2011
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hrotha said:
It's also pretty silly to keep saying he's dropping everyone and riding like Contador, when all he did was win on an easy climb, where only Intxausti tried to follow after a while (and who didn't lose any more time to him on the climb once he went), especially after he lost time the other day.

Oh, and I like how you lump Costa Ricans, Venezuelans and Colombians together like that. What does Amador have to do with Rujano or Henao? Might as well say they're all from the Americans and throw in Hesjedal too.
It's obvious Pozzovivo is climbing well because he has a nose full of Charlie.

How else could he have done it, aside from being freaking tiny, attacking on a really steep bit, and not quite being dangerous enough for any individual rider to chase in earnest?
 
Sep 26, 2009
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I am just going on his performance at Trentino and now the Giro....looked REMARKABLE to me. But I take my medicine and we shall see over the next 4 stages of the Giro.....where i am sure he will ease up the Mountains like a Chamois Goat....and gain minutes.
 
Cycle Chic said:
I am just going on his performance at Trentino and now the Giro....looked REMARKABLE to me. But I take my medicine and we shall see over the next 4 stages of the Giro.....where i am sure he will ease up the Mountains like a Chamois Goat....and gain minutes.
If you are sure, why this thread? You've already made up your mind, and no amount of logic or information will change that, apparently.
 
I think posters should go a little easier on Tiernan-Locke. How arrogant is it (not just in his case), that just because you haven't heard of him and he wins a race he must be suspicious. The guy has rarely raced on the continent, and rides for a pretty small UK based team.

Is it such a stretch to believe that a) his time won't get many rides, b) he needs to maximise his exposure to get a bigger contract, c) he aims to peak for a couple of smallish early season races that 90% of the peloton are riding for training, and d) he attacks on the last climb? He hardly won seventeen stages in a stage race, or by half an hour. A couple of races quite close together with similar profiles.

Interesting to see Pozzovivo has done well at Pampeago in Trentino. Maybe he can get some time back in the Giro there this week
 
Oct 30, 2011
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Avoriaz said:
I think posters should go a little easier on Tiernan-Locke. How arrogant is it (not just in his case), that just because you haven't heard of him and he wins a race he must be suspicious. The guy has rarely raced on the continent, and rides for a pretty small UK based team.

Is it such a stretch to believe that a) his time won't get many rides, b) he needs to maximise his exposure to get a bigger contract, c) he aims to peak for a couple of smallish early season races that 90% of the peloton are riding for training, and d) he attacks on the last climb? He hardly won seventeen stages in a stage race, or by half an hour. A couple of races quite close together with similar profiles.

Interesting to see Pozzovivo has done well at Pampeago in Trentino. Maybe he can get some time back in the Giro there this week
The OP alluded to the suspicion over JTL and Froome, and so people explained why they were viewed with more suspicion. I have defended Froome in the past and reading my posts back an hour later, I looked like a bit of a tit. With regards to JTL - even if dope is involved to a greater degree than those around him, there are probably other factors such as those you mention at play. We will just have to wait and see how he progresses, I suppose.

What cannot be denied is that Pozzovivo (before the Giro d'Italia or before this season, whichever you prefer) has a far better palmarès than both Froome and JTL did before hitting the headlines. That is the point that is being made. Not that JTL is definitely dodgy or that Pozzovivo is definitely clean, just that the "He's come from nowhere" argument is valid with one and not the other.

Did JTL have some kind of bug or illness? I know they're always saying Froome did, but did JTL as well?
 
Cycle Chic said:
I am just going on his performance at Trentino and now the Giro....looked REMARKABLE to me. But I take my medicine and we shall see over the next 4 stages of the Giro.....where i am sure he will ease up the Mountains like a Chamois Goat....and gain minutes.
i am starting to think that your REMARKABLE ability to ignore any logic is more related too trolling then anything else. . . .
 
Cycle Chic said:
so you dont think he could tow Basso or Scarponi up the mountains ?? and take home a huge pay packet ? instead he stays at Colnago where he isnt capable of GC anyway and who wont get the opportunity to ride the Pro Tours ?
What don't you get about not wanting to leave Colnago?

He doesn't want the pressure that comes with a big budget team. It isn't his style and psychologically he isn't suited for it. He himself has said as much.

As far as towing Basso and Scarponi up the mountains, what you have seen from Pozzovivo has been the results of being fresh in short stage races, when his rivals weren't in top form, or else at the early stages of the Giro in a momment when the favorites were playing chess.

The reason why Pozzovivo would not match up to the others is because he doesn't have a big engine for the third week and he will always get crushed in the TTs. Thus for him a second level team is ideal. He doesn't have the pressure, but can still be the leader for Trentino and Giro stages. Capito?
 
Avoriaz said:
I think posters should go a little easier on Tiernan-Locke. How arrogant is it (not just in his case), that just because you haven't heard of him and he wins a race he must be suspicious. The guy has rarely raced on the continent, and rides for a pretty small UK based team.
It was more about the conflation of Pozzovivo, who has been banking lots of solid results for five years now, with Tiernan-Locke and Froome as "from out of nowhere" riders. JTL's palmarès before February 2012 is in no way even remotely comparable to Pozzovivo's before Trentino 2012, and only a crazy person would suggest so.

JTL did come "from out of nowhere" in terms of previous results, even if the capability to pick those results up had been shown in fits and starts before. Domenico Pozzovivo did not come from out of nowhere, under any definition other than to somebody who has never watched a bicycle race in Italy at any point in the last five years.
Caruut said:
Did JTL have some kind of bug or illness? I know they're always saying Froome did, but did JTL as well?
JTL had Epstein-Barr virus a few years ago, when he was riding for UV Aube in the French amateur scene. He dropped out of cycling entirely for a while before getting back in via the mostly-unsuited-to-him British national calendar.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/jonathan-tiernan-locke-illness-doping-rumours-and-his-road-to-the-top

He says in there that he'll be doing weekly and/or bi-weekly blood tests to try to clear his name from the suspicion that was aroused by his breakthrough performances (and exacerbated when Dan Martin revealed that there had been no testing at those races). I don't know if anybody's kept any tabs on that or if it ever came to fruition, though.

Either way, if he wants to avoid being another Pecharromán, it would be nice to see another performance from him, since after that breakthrough at the Tour Méd and Haut-Var, and the podium of Murcía, he's DNFed Coppi e Bartali early on, DNFed Castilla y León halfway through, and been anonymous at Madrid.
 
Sep 26, 2009
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Can I point out that my astonishment at Pozzovivo's performances at Trentino and the Giro - is his ability to ROCKET away from the best climbers in the race...Basso, Schmydt, (basically the Liquigas team who are the best climbers), Rodriguez, Schleck and the speed and EASE at which he does it.

dodgey.
 
Cycle Chic said:
Can I point out that my astonishment at Pozzovivo's performances at Trentino and the Giro - is his ability to ROCKET away from the best climbers in the race...Basso, Schmydt, (basically the Liquigas team who are the best climbers), Rodriguez, Schleck and the speed and EASE at which he does it.

dodgey.
Are you even reading the replies you're getting.
 
Oct 30, 2011
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Cycle Chic said:
Can I point out that my astonishment at Pozzovivo's performances at Trentino and the Giro - is his ability to ROCKET away from the best climbers in the race...Basso, Schmydt, (basically the Liquigas team who are the best climbers), Rodriguez, Schleck and the speed and EASE at which he does it.

dodgey.
Basso and Szymd are both tempo climbers. They suffer a lot when accelerating. Basso is only going to try to respond with fast accelerations when there's an attack form a big rival at a crucial time. Otherwise he trusts himself to work best by just riding his own pace - usually he'll ride back to them, and if he can't ride back to them at his own pace, he would have cracked anyway, losing more time.

Since you aren't actually going to read this, I don't know why I'm bothering.
 
Oct 30, 2011
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Tell you what Cycle Chic reminds me of - tabloid papers. The wild accusations with little or no basis in fact, the unrelenting crusading, and the weird habit of writing key words in CAPITALS, presumably so that the hard-of-thinking don't miss them out.
 
Sep 26, 2009
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Was todays performance expected then ? just a normal day at the office for our diminutive Colombian/Italian ?
 

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