Pozzovivo = pots-of-epo

[Eshnar]

Have you read that article ? the italians think he came from nowhere.

The article has not been written by an Italian nor it says anything like that.

 

[Caruut]

I dont need to trawl through statistics to back up the obvious. I dont need stats presented to me to see when a rider is juiced....I watch races....performances that are out of this world usually are.

Clearly not that many that Pozzovivo has been in.

Did you watch any of these?

2007
Settimana Ciclistica Lombarda (3rd overall)

2008
Giro del Trentino (3rd overall)
Giro d'Italia (9th overall)

2009
Settimana Ciclistica Lombarda (1st stage 5)
Brixia Tour (2nd overall)
Tour of Slovenia (3rd overall)
Giro del Trentino (5th overall)

2010
Brixia Tour (1st overall and 1st stages 2 & 4)
Giro dell'Appennino (2nd)
Tre Valli Varesine (2nd)
Giro della Romagna (3rd)
Giro del Trentino (3rd overall and 1st stage 4)
Tirreno–Adriatico (7th overall)

2011
Brixia Tour (2nd overall and 1st stage 4)
Tre Valli Varesine (2nd)
Trofeo Melinda (3rd)
Vuelta a Castilla y León (4th overall)
Giro del Trentino (4th overall)
Giro di Lombardia (6th)

Notice that, before winning the Giro del Trentino, he was top 5 for four consecutive years beforehand. If you can do that on a short stage race, you have the quality to win it. Likewise his results in the Italian domestic calender basically show that he's there or thereabouts a lot of the time. Taking a GT stage and putting in a good performance is by no means beyond the palmares we see there. Taking a closer look at the '08 Giro, Pozzovivo also managed 2nd on stage 15 and took 8th on the stage 16 MTT. Then on the final overall standings you have Nibali 11th (over 10 minutes down on Pozzo), J-Rod 17th, Hesjedal 60th and Wiggins 134th; between them those 4 riders had 1st and 2nd at the Giro, 1st and 3rd at the Tour and 3rd at the Vuelta in 2012.

 

[staubsauger]

Taking a closer look at the '08 Giro, Pozzovivo also managed 2nd on stage 15 and took 8th on the stage 16 MTT. Then on the final overall standings you have Pozzovivo in 9th, Nibali 11th (over 10 minutes down on Pozzo), Hesjedal 60th and Wiggins 134th.

Whole CSF was possibly on Cera in 2008!

 

[Caruut]

Whole CSF was possibly on Cera in 2008!

Yes, this is true. Compare Pozzovivo's '08 to subsequent years though and it's not vastly different.

 

[Clausfarre]

Oh Cycle Chic, that made me smile.

We should have a thread just for doping puns.

Or not. I'm stumped to come up with a follow-up..

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Oh, it only took you 70 posts to finally add something worthwhile to the discussion. Now we're talking.

Yes, 6.1 W/kg is a big number. Half an hour counts as a long enough climb, I think, but it's probably a borderline case.

6.1 watt/kg isn't super extraordinary or anything. quintana kicked over 7 watt/kg weight in final avenir mountain itt at age 20 in a 33 minute effort. one of very few riders I know 100% is clean.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Whole CSF was possibly on Cera in 2008!

1 or 2 riders is whole team?

you must rule at math!

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I dont need to trawl through statistics to back up the obvious. I dont need stats presented to me to see when a rider is juiced....I watch races....performances that are out of this world usually are.

with your head stuck somewhere where the sun doesn't shine

 

[Cycle Chic]

with your head stuck somewhere where the sun doesn't shine

You're PSYCHO and should be banned.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

You're PSYCHO and should be banned.

yeah I must be psycho. read your own messages back and the lack of evidence you present. you are slandering someone anonymously over the internet, maybe not psycho, but pathetic it is

 

[Winterfold]

You're PSYCHO and should be banned.

he is regularly.

I like him though, he is passionate about the sport I love, rather than obsessed with drugs, and he knows one end of a bike from another unlike many

 

[Libertine Seguros]

http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and-comment/comment-the-ascent-of-pozzovivo/

Have you read that article ? the italians think he came from nowhere.

The article doesn't say that, as Eshnar already pointed out.

But if it did say that he came out of nowhere, I would call the article ignorant too.

Mosquera, for example, had some decent results in Portugal and a year of good stage race results in 2005 before his breakthrough Vuelta. I railed against calling it a cinderella story, but Mosquera's development into GC contender was far more blatant than Pozzovivo. It came later in his career, for a smaller team (even than CSF). Pozzovivo had been one of the best cyclists in Italy for five years. Doped? Yea, possibly. I see nothing to say that he was doping any more clearly in 2012 than at any other point in his career, but I sure wouldn't be surprised if he popped positive. I'm sure you'd take that as a sign that he doped up to get to the next level as if he hadn't already been at that same level for years beforehand and if he tested positive in 2013 I would take that as an assumption not that he doped in 2012 to break through but that he was probably doping at all points at least from 2008 onwards.

To compare Pozzovivo breaking out in the Giro to another area of cycling... would you make a thread like this about the obvious out-of-nowhere doping if Visconti attacked on the Poggio and finished top 10 of San Remo?

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

pozzovivo was a massive u23 talent. most u23 italian riders of those era were doped beyond anything and as soon as turning pro stopped producing results. just check almost all navigare riders thet turned pro between 2004 and 2010. pozzovivo as a pro was just as great though. same for some other italians like nibali that rode in one of the cleanest amateur teams in italy

 

[Caruut]

Yes, remember something about pro teams in Italy avoiding the biggest amateur teams because they were generally doped up, whereas the smaller amateur teams took much better care of their riders. Can't for the life of me remember where it was from, though. Cycle Chic is just ranting at thin air though - Pozzovivo has been really rather consistent throughout his whole pro career. Like almost everyone on this thread, I am not saying he's definitely clean (how would I know), just that his performances are pretty consistent with his history.

 

[will10]

For the nth time, what got you the ridicule in this thread was not the suggestion that Pozzovivo dopes: that would hardly be earth-shattering news.

However, the implication that he came out of nowhere, like he started doping for a new contract in 2012, is highly ignorant and insulting to a guy who's been a top level cyclist for four or five years now. If he was doping in 2012, then there's a good chance he was doping just the same in 2008, in 2009, in 2010 and in 2011. But you came steaming in there conflating him with Tiernan-Locke and Froome. I know the guy is so small he might be hard to spot, but if you watched any Italian races for the last five years you'd have known all about him before the 2012 Giro, and have known that his 2012 Giro performance wasn't anything new for him.

If he's doping, he's doped all along. This would not surprise me in the slightest. He rode the 2008 Giro for CSF-Navigare and finished in the top 10.

Exactly this.

Cycle chic, get your coat. You are embarrassing yourself.

 

[Parrulo]

also we, or better cycle chic, should not forget that the only reason why domenico stayed in italy all this time was so he cold finish his PhD which he did last year ( jens even posted a couple pics of him in a suit after getting his PhD diploma)

i have read it in more then 1 interview him saying that after finishing it he would focus 100% on his cycling career and move to a bigger team so a move to a team like AG2R was bound to happen.

 

[Cycle Chic]

The Obvious

I,ll quote it again for you as you seem to have dismissed the article and not read it. The article by Kenny Pryde details why his Giro performance was 'not normal'.

Impressive! But this being Italy, it seemed a bit too impressive for some observers to simply applaud and move on to the next stage. There were even some of his peers in the gruppo who smiled and pointed out that Pozzovivo’s rhyming nickname is ‘Positivo’

http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and-comment/comment-the-ascent-of-pozzovivo/

So I,m getting slagged off for noticing what ITALIAN CYCLING JOURNALISTS AND THE PELOTON have.

No problem with that. Adios !

 

[Eshnar]

So I,m getting slagged off for noticing what ITALIAN CYCLING JOURNALISTS AND THE PELOTON have.

Again, what italian journalists?

And 'the peloton', even if called gruppo is composed by various people, not only italian ones.
"some observers" doesn't mean "italian journalists" to me

 

[Caruut]

I,ll quote it again for you as you seem to have dismissed the article and not read it. The article by Kenny Pryde details why his Giro performance was 'not normal'.



http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and-comment/comment-the-ascent-of-pozzovivo/

So I,m getting slagged off for noticing what ITALIAN CYCLING JOURNALISTS AND THE PELOTON have.

No problem with that. Adios !

I read the article. The journalist is as full of rubbish as you are. Having two people spouting rubbish doesn't make it not rubbish - there's just twice as much. He claims there were journalists "scurrying for information" to explain it, obviously indicating that he, like you, doesn't have a clue what he's on about. Any proper cycling journo would know Pozzovivo. Even one who doesn't literally just needs to go to his race results on Wiki and see that in 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011 he was top 5 in the Giro del Trentino.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I,ll quote it again for you as you seem to have dismissed the article and not read it. The article by Kenny Pryde details why his Giro performance was 'not normal'.



http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and-comment/comment-the-ascent-of-pozzovivo/

So I,m getting slagged off for noticing what ITALIAN CYCLING JOURNALISTS AND THE PELOTON have.

No problem with that. Adios !

They never said when the péloton gave him that nickname. He could have had it for years. Either way, his 2012 performances were not anything unexpected or on a level higher than he had previously been at. If he's doping, he's been at it for years, he's not suddenly Froomed out of nowhere. His performance may have been "not normal" in that he put out some power numbers and climbed in a way that nobody could match him... but that's not out of the ordinary for Pozzovivo. It's what he does. Maybe it's cos he's doped up that he does that, but he has been doing it for years. Here is Domenico Pozzovivo outclimbing Contador and Riccò five years ago. Here is Domenico Pozzovivo getting on the front and crushing Basso, Sella, di Luca, Vinokourov, Niemiec and Riccò three years ago. A month later, Ivan Basso won the Giro by being the strongest climber and Vino finished top 10. Domenico crashed on stage 3, fell ill in the second week in the freezing weather and dropped out. Here's Domenico Pozzovivo wrecking a mountainous one-day race 60km from the finish three years ago, eventually losing the two-up sprint to a guy who was in the break, and who finished top 10 in the Giro less than a month later. Here's Domenico Pozzovivo crushing everyone on a mountaintop in the Brixia Tour three years ago, doing the same a year later. He finished 2nd in Tre Valli Varesine two years running. Here's Domenico Pozzovivo being the 2nd strongest on the final climb of Lombardia 2011. That last one was on Eurosport, so it's understandable that you might not have noticed him. You were probably too busy tweeting the commentators how rubbish they are to notice the riders.

So yea, if Italian cycling journalists said Pozzovivo came out of nowhere, they're pretty crap cycling journalists.

Again: if Giovanni Visconti finished on the podium of Milan-San Remo, would you say he came out of nowhere to do so?

 

[will10]

I,ll quote it again for you as you seem to have dismissed the article and not read it. The article by Kenny Pryde details why his Giro performance was 'not normal'.



http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and-comment/comment-the-ascent-of-pozzovivo/

So I,m getting slagged off for noticing what ITALIAN CYCLING JOURNALISTS AND THE PELOTON have.

No problem with that. Adios !

Cycle Sport have journalists now?

 

[the sceptic]

Well. struggling to believe that

 

[therhodeo]

Waiting for the flood in here.

 

[Ferminal]

I don't get it.

If he's somehow started doping like mad to "improve" his ITT then why hasn't such improvement been replicated in his climbing? Probably just a well timed refill.

Also be careful with the 600m climbing in the first half, he lost almost a minute to Cancellara/Martin in the final 12km which is not that much better than expected.

 

[il_cobra]

AICAR the almighty