Pre Giro d' Italia-thread!

[Climbing]

Re:

Aren't Movistar sending any of their top GC riders? Neither Quintana, Valverde, Landa or Soler?

No, they are sending everybody and his friends to Le Tour!
Gonna be a comedy :lol:

 

[Bolder]

I would think that Sky would like to see Froome in pink after the Aetna stage. He may not win the ITT, but he might be ahead of the other GT contenders save Dumoulin.

My "head" pick is Froome -- Sky just know how to win GTs even when he's not at his best, and there are 44 km of TT for him to beat up on the field.

"Heart": Lopez or Pinot. Actually Lopez might be a head pick. I am not convinced that Dumoulin is better than Froome at this point, but hard to assess either rider's form right now. I only watched a bit of the Tour of the Alps climbing and didn't see anything special from Froome either way. But he could very well be sandbagging.

 

[Brullnux]

Henao isn't the best domestique, even if he's doing well in the races he's good at; he just isn't made for it - or at least he's never been that good. Poels is in bad form, so it's basically Froome by himself a lot of the time.

The blue jersey race will be good. Hopefully Ciccone goes for it rather than a top-15 or a top-10, and then Visconti and a few others too.

 

[fuiers]

I just wanna setup my situatiton. I was on a sick leave last year and it was the second week of Tour. I got hooked and havent looked back ever since. Watched Vuelta for the first time last year and in a couple of weeks it will be the first Giro for me. I´ve always been a huge cycling fan. Followed Indurain and Pantani in the 90´s but so much time has passed. Now I have watched basically the hole season up to LBL. So easy to get along and get to know the main players and who you like to follow.

I have no idea about the stages and I think that´s only a good thing. Took a one week vacation from work just when the Giro hits the mountains.

As for the GC I just hope this isn´t gonna be easy street for Froome. The startlist is not confirmed yet but something is missing in my opinion. I have only seen a climpse of Dumoulin and he has not impressed me that much. I am aware of his TT skills but still. Who´s gonna support him?
Also the fact that Froome is participating both Giro and Tour is gonna change so much. So many GC riders are focusing so much on Tour this year. Looks like Movistar is not gonna send anyone from the trio to Giro. Big mistake. GC is looking more and more boring? I mean sure there are interesting riders there but high profile riders are lacking. But this is just my rookie look for the situation. As for me I have never been that much of an GC follower. I like mountains and riders like Landa, Bardet, Roglic and George Bennett. But lets hope that the first Giro is not gonna disappoint me.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Interestingly enough I only just looked in depth at the Giro and I found out there are a lot of 1 mountain finish stages. Where only the last mountain to the top is really interesting.

Only the last 2 mountain stages are real multi mountain stages. So I'm unsure wether this really suits climbers as much as it seems. There is a lot of TT-up-the-mountain Froome/Dumoulin stages

That being said, Lopez has looked really awesome this year, I think even better than Quintana in his younger years. I really believe he is going to be really close.
Aru seems less good by comparison this year

 

[Nirvana]

Re:

Aren't Movistar sending any of their top GC riders? Neither Quintana, Valverde, Landa or Soler?

According to what I've read recently even Amador could be sent to the Tour.
Should be Betancur the "GC man" for the Giro.

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

Interestingly enough I only just looked in depth at the Giro and I found out there are a lot of 1 mountain finish stages. Where only the last mountain to the top is really interesting.

Only the last 2 mountain stages are real multi mountain stages. So I'm unsure wether this really suits climbers as much as it seems. There is a lot of TT-up-the-mountain Froome/Dumoulin stages

That being said, Lopez has looked really awesome this year, I think even better than Quintana in his younger years. I really believe he is going to be really close.
Aru seems less good by comparison this year

According to A Gazzetta the Astana team will be
MAL
Lulu
Hirt
Kangert
Bilbao
Lutsenko
Villella
Zeits

That's one hell of a team, I guess that means that Fuglsang will get a rouleur heavy team for the Tour with Hansen and Cataldo foor the mountains (and maybe Kangert if hes doing the double once again, he has ridden it a few tims before).

Apparently Bora won't send Buchmann, Formolo will be the leader. No idea what König is doing, becoming a SJW realy ruined his career.

 

[fuiers]

I wrote a long post but dont know where it got lost. Gonna wrap this up more quickly then. I just started following professional cycling last year but I have been following on/off from the 90´s. Just saw the startlist that looks to be confirmed and I have to say its not looking that strong for the GC. Froome, Pinot, Dumoulin and maybe some dark horse but thats about it. Thankfully there are couple of riders that I like to follow like Yates and George Bennett. Movistar´s tactics are so strange. They really are pushing for Tour and Vuelta this year. Hopefully its not gonna be easy street for Sky. They have a strong team but I would like to see somebody challenging them. Maybe Astana??

 

[Valv.Piti]

That Astana team is SICK, adding Lutsenko and Kangert is just awesome.

 

[Red Rick]

MAL is most likely the best climber in the race. He was in the 2nd week of the Vuetla but couldn't hold that form cause his prep wasn't great.

I think the short uphill tricky finishes will be a pain for him though, and there's not many stages where he can just take off and expect to gain major time, which is what he needs to win.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

MAL is most likely the best climber in the race. He was in the 2nd week of the Vuetla but couldn't hold that form cause his prep wasn't great.

I think the short uphill tricky finishes will be a pain for him though, and there's not many stages where he can just take off and expect to gain major time, which is what he needs to win.

I also think its legit and is a thing to doubt his climbing on a climb like Zoncolan, his shape obviously dropped off towards the end of the race, but he wasn't good at all on Angliru and the other ultra steep finishes. He looked the best on the 6-8% climbs and there are plenty of those - can take time on Etna, Sasso, Sappada, Finestre and the Aosta stage. But maybe Im completely of here!

 

[Kyllingen86]

The route is in my opinion deceptive. At first glance it is like “yes a lot of mountain stages” (8 MTF’s) but on the other hand if I look closer it is a route that is more or less tailor made for Chris Froome. There will be one more week between Giro and Tour next year and in addition compared to an average Giro the route is weakened a lot. Everything has a purpose and what Vegni wanted was to create a route easy enough for Froome to still compete at the Tour.

Strong points
1. Prologue in Jerusalem
2. Sicily as a setting for early skirmishes
3. Beautiful stage to Gran Sasso d'Italia
4. Design of Eastern Alps combo (Stage 14 and 15)
5. Sterratto-mountain stage (Stage 19)


Negative points
1. Not a single MDF
2. No proper Dolomite-stage
3. Amount of time-trialing a bit low
4. To many unipolar MTF (or close enough) (Stage 6, 8, 18)
5. The highest point is a puny 2178 m


Compared with Giro 2017:
1. Amount of time-trialing less regardless of the nice prologue this year
2. Etna from a new side is interesting - doubt it will make that big of a difference though
3. Appenine-stage last year with Blockhaus had a tougher MTF but this year it is longer and with a "bump" (Roccarosso) on the road.
4. The previous stage to Montevergine is kind of an "extra" compared to last year. Perhaps it can be equivalent to last years Valdengo-stage.
5. Zoncolan-stage is longer than Ortisei-stage last year and the finish so much tougher. On the other hand last years stage had the potential for a long range attack - this years Zoncolan-stage will be dull until the climb itself.
6. The Sappada has so much more potential than Piancavallo.
7. Oropa last year was horrible but Giro 2018 has Prato Nevoso. At least that stage has a proper length.
8. Queenstage to Bormio last year was in my opinion better designed than this years Sestriere. The problem is that Finestre is placed to far out with a very long mountain-stage the next day.
9. The stage to Cervinia is comparable with last years Asiago-stage. It is better designed because a long range attack makes sense. Last year Grappa was simply placed to far out.
10. I prefer an IT rather than a sprint on the last day.

All in all I guess I prefer this years route but I would have liked a packed mountain stage more. The only really hard mountain stage this year is stage 19 to Bardonecchia. The Zoncolan-stage is only hard because of Zoncolan.


Why the route is favouring Froome:

Let me be clear! I am not a fan of Froome but he is one of the best grand tour riders out there and many kind of routes would favor him regardless. I would have liked to see him challenged by the very long and steep climbs that I identify with the Giro. In my opinion what troubles Froome the most in recent years are really hard mountain stages with high and steep climbs. This years route are packed with many climbs but Zoncolan and Finestre aside it seems to me there are a distinct lack of mountains with proper Giro-gradient compared to other years. Instead they went the "Tour-route" with long or mediumlong climbs with mediocre gradients. Prato Nevoso, Montevergine, Etna, Gran Sasso and so on. A type of climb Froome are quite familiar with from the TDF and we all know he is brilliant on those. Furthermore those a grinder climbs that are easier for a strong team (Sky) to control. Another trait lacking in this years Giro are the multi-mountain stage that surpasses 2000 m several times. There is not a stage like Bormio last year of the Agnello-stage from 2016. Furthermore not a single one of the mountain stages is packed into short uncontrollable ones.

There are a more murito-like uphill finishes in this years Giro than last year. They may not be long enough to be muritos in the world of la Vuelta but they suit Froome more than his rivals. Here I am thinking of stage 4, 5 and 11. Stage 4 to Caltagirone has a ramp of 1 km which should suit Froome if he wishes to attack that early in the race. Stage 5 is slightly uphill but I will admit its probably not steep enough to create any gaps anyway. Stage 11 to Osimo is another stage with steep walls favouring Froome.

There is not an exaggerating amount of TT which will allow Froome to take significant time on most of his rivals but not lose that much to the only GC-rider better than him in TT’s (Dumoulin).

 

[Krokro]

Re:

I wrote a long post but dont know where it got lost. Gonna wrap this up more quickly then. I just started following professional cycling last year but I have been following on/off from the 90´s. Just saw the startlist that looks to be confirmed and I have to say its not looking that strong for the GC. Froome, Pinot, Dumoulin and maybe some dark horse but thats about it. Thankfully there are couple of riders that I like to follow like Yates and George Bennett. Movistar´s tactics are so strange. They really are pushing for Tour and Vuelta this year. Hopefully its not gonna be easy street for Sky. They have a strong team but I would like to see somebody challenging them. Maybe Astana??

Welcome there buddy. Always cool to have some fresh blood and opinion around!
I'd love to be in your situation and discover such a beautiful race.

Astana with a sick lineup indeed. I can't wait for this to start. I still believe this will be an open race. Dumo and Froome did not show dominance or anything spectacular this season. As someone said, Froome might peak in 3rd week.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

MAL is most likely the best climber in the race. He was in the 2nd week of the Vuetla but couldn't hold that form cause his prep wasn't great.

I think the short uphill tricky finishes will be a pain for him though, and there's not many stages where he can just take off and expect to gain major time, which is what he needs to win.

I also think its legit and is a thing to doubt his climbing on a climb like Zoncolan, his shape obviously dropped off towards the end of the race, but he wasn't good at all on Angliru and the other ultra steep finishes. He looked the best on the 6-8% climbs and there are plenty of those - can take time on Etna, Sasso, Sappada, Finestre and the Aosta stage. But maybe Im completely of here!

Don't think he really has a probelm with steep climbs. He was just fine on Muchachos but was already dropping off by then. Sierra Nevada was clearly his best day, that was a great performance. Calar Alto was a more tactical win where I honestly think Nibali was the strongest but he'd already done 3 attacks in a headwind.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Trek selected neo-pro Niklas Eg for the Giro, after Nizzolo had to opt out.

DS Kim Andersen said they know it is too soon, but they have no other options, than throwing him in the deep end, and after his recent form, they think he might pull it off.

Those that watched the 3rd stage of Tour of Croatia, have no doubt who Eg is

 

[HelloDolly]

Dennis will be in pink after the first stage imo ....and yes he is going for GC...been out on the mountians training recently ..could hold on till stage 10 ...means Sunweb and SKY dont do much work and keep powder dry till 2nd part of race

with de la Cruz, Henao & Poels SKY have best team imo...Poels will come good in 3rd week when it counts ..Henao & DLC will be good
Next MScott...but not sure where Chvaes is at and S Yates is good but no GT winner imo ...not yet anyway
Dumoulin has Oomen but that is all in the high mountains in 3rd week....can t see it happening this year

Astana have 2nd stronget team but only MAL is a good enough to last on the climbs

I am hoping SKY & Froome do not dominate

 

[Sestriere]

According to the provisional starlist Quick-Step is mostly bringing a sprint train for Viviani. Seems like a good choice if the opposition isn't as strong as in recent years to make sure the rare opportunities are used (atm I can only see Bennett, Mareczko and van Poppel challenge him).
I'm interested in how Schachmann will perform in his first Grand Tour and if he will show some GC potential. In the U23 ranks he was mostly seen as a time trialist, however, he has really taken a good development as an allrounder.

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

According to the provisional starlist Quick-Step is mostly bringing a sprint train for Viviani. Seems like a good choice if the opposition isn't as strong as in recent years to make sure the rare opportunities are used (atm I can only see Bennett, Mareczko and van Poppel challenge him).
I'm interested in how Schachmann will perform in his first Grand Tour and if he will show some GC potential. In the U23 ranks he was mostly seen as a time trialist, however, he has really taken a good development as an allrounder.

Schachmann was also a pretty decent climber in the U23 ranks, think about a young Tony Martin durning the HCT days.

 

[Robert5091]

To beat Froome & TommyD, someone needs to take minutes on the climbs and that will be hard.

 

[Sestriere]

Re: Re:

According to the provisional starlist Quick-Step is mostly bringing a sprint train for Viviani. Seems like a good choice if the opposition isn't as strong as in recent years to make sure the rare opportunities are used (atm I can only see Bennett, Mareczko and van Poppel challenge him).
I'm interested in how Schachmann will perform in his first Grand Tour and if he will show some GC potential. In the U23 ranks he was mostly seen as a time trialist, however, he has really taken a good development as an allrounder.

Schachmann was also a pretty decent climber in the U23 ranks, think about a young Tony Martin durning the HCT days.

You certainly don't win the Tour Alsace if you can't climb but he mostly caught my eye with multiple near misses in the Worlds' TTs: 3rd in Junior cat, 5th and twice 2nd in U23. I hope he can become a better GC rider than Tony Martin ultimately got, or at least a better climber, if it should be the classics I'm fine as well.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

Dennis will be in pink after the first stage imo ....and yes he is going for GC...been out on the mountians training recently ..could hold on till stage 10 ...means Sunweb and SKY dont do much work and keep powder dry till 2nd part of race

with de la Cruz, Henao & Poels SKY have best team imo...Poels will come good in 3rd week when it counts ..Henao & DLC will be good
Next MScott...but not sure where Chvaes is at and S Yates is good but no GT winner imo ...not yet anyway
Dumoulin has Oomen but that is all in the high mountains in 3rd week....can t see it happening this year

Astana have 2nd stronget team but only MAL is a good enough to last on the climbs

I am hoping SKY & Froome do not dominate

Dennis would be another tempo climber. But he's been very unreliable in stage races. Nothing suggests to me that he can top 5.

 

[fuiers]

So lets try to rundown the favorites then for the jerseys.

GC: Froome, Dumoulin, Pinot, Aru, Chavez
Points: Viviani, Wellens, Froome
Mountains: Sanchez, Pinot, Pozzovivo, Chavez, Villella, Yates??
Young rider: Lopez, Mohoric, Formolo, Mas??, Soler??

This is my rookie opinions. You guys might have something to add.

 

[EroicaStradeBianche]

The route was made dealing with Sky to ensure Froome participation. I think that for Vegni is (was?) important to have Froome on the Giro-palmares.
On climbs like Etna, montenegrine, Gran Sasso, Prato Nevoso the likes of Froome and Dumulin won't lose a second, they can even gain.
That's modern cycling, with Powermeters the rouleurs with a great engine can climb as well as the "climbers".
Who wants to beat these two should set the alarm in Caltagirone and start attacking wherever there'll be terrain to do so, because on the "Mountains" there won't be much possibilities, I just save the Zonc-Sappada combo.

 

[EroicaStradeBianche]

MAL is strong, but his collapse at T-A surprised me a lot, I don't see him easy on the podium. Astana should play with their numbers and ride aggressively. I fear that Dennis will be a non-factor GC-wise. I see Pinot very very good, for me he's the main favorite alongside The Duke and Froome.

One last question: it is confirmed that Zakarin will go losing 5 minutes on the cobbles at the Tour instead of taking an extremely favorable route at the Giro (0 descent finishes)?

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

I just wanna setup my situatiton. I was on a sick leave last year and it was the second week of Tour. I got hooked and havent looked back ever since. Watched Vuelta for the first time last year and in a couple of weeks it will be the first Giro for me. I´ve always been a huge cycling fan. Followed Indurain and Pantani in the 90´s but so much time has passed. Now I have watched basically the hole season up to LBL. So easy to get along and get to know the main players and who you like to follow.

I have no idea about the stages and I think that´s only a good thing. Took a one week vacation from work just when the Giro hits the mountains.

As for the GC I just hope this isn´t gonna be easy street for Froome. The startlist is not confirmed yet but something is missing in my opinion. I have only seen a climpse of Dumoulin and he has not impressed me that much. I am aware of his TT skills but still. Who´s gonna support him?
Also the fact that Froome is participating both Giro and Tour is gonna change so much. So many GC riders are focusing so much on Tour this year. Looks like Movistar is not gonna send anyone from the trio to Giro. Big mistake. GC is looking more and more boring? I mean sure there are interesting riders there but high profile riders are lacking. But this is just my rookie look for the situation. As for me I have never been that much of an GC follower. I like mountains and riders like Landa, Bardet, Roglic and George Bennett. But lets hope that the first Giro is not gonna disappoint me.

Have fun.
I always find it really interesting how people look at a sport when they are only starting to watch a sport or like in your case haven't watched it for many years. Generally if last years tour hooked you, I'm sure you'll like this giro even more