Pre Tour de France-thread

[movingtarget]

Re:

People are getting very hot under the collar and not even one pedal has been pushed at this years Tour
Have to say Astana is a far cry from the team of Nibali, Aru & Landa of a few years back

For me the strongest team on paper is SKY followed by Barhrain but the team to watch is Movistar...how will they ride , what way will they play it and what happens if all 3 amigoes are in the top 5 and Frooome goes off ...who will chase

I don't think anyone is comparing them to that Astana team. The Bahrain team is comparable to others but I don't regard them as the second best team on paper. Movistar could implode if they have early problems but if they work well for one leader they should be strong. Michelton showed the advantages of having multiple riders in the top 10 in the Giro but then it went pear shaped when Chaves got sick and the rest is history. If Sky open up a sizeable gap after the TT it should make the final week more entertaining with many climbers needing to make up ground. The perfect scenario for Thomas if Froome start to falter. Whether Thomas could take advantage of that and finish off a strong three weeks is another matter.

 

[Von Mises]

Re:

Are you joking? Movistar, Ag2R, Bahrain and BMC are better teams. Its a fine team, but not a very strong one by any means. They will lose +1 minute in the TT and I don't expect any of these guys to help Fuglsang in the mountains when it really gets tough.

When it really gets tough in the mountains, it means Sky or Movistar are making race. Mabye Bahrain too. After these Astana, Ag2R and BMC are quite equal, cannot see that ayone can help their leaders much when it gets really tough.

Anyways, Im done debating with you when it comes to Danes. I feel you are clearly overrating this team. And by way, there is a big difference between not being able to support Fuglsang when it gets really tough and no help in the mountains. When you are quoting like that, at least quote me properly instead of that.... there are simply no great climbers on the squad outside of Fuglsang. Kangert, Fraile Hansen and Sanchez are good, but not great by any means.

Same applies to Ag2R and BMC, good, but not great.

Actually if Tejay is anywhere near his best he is actually a GC contender. Do not forget he has 2 top 5 GC overalls at the Tour. However the question with Tejay is have they gotten his head straightened out or not. If they have he will be there in the high mountains for Porte.

Not because of his greatness in the mountains. In 2012 he probably was not even top 10 climber. In 2014 he was better in the mountains, but not great.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

Are you joking? Movistar, Ag2R, Bahrain and BMC are better teams. Its a fine team, but not a very strong one by any means. They will lose +1 minute in the TT and I don't expect any of these guys to help Fuglsang in the mountains when it really gets tough.

BMC a better GC team?
Van Garderen better than Kangert?
Caruso better than Fraile?
Gerrans better than Cort?
Kung better than Sanchez?
Schar better than Hansen?
Van Avermaet is probably on par with Valgren, when it comes to supporting a GC captain
(Gruzdev I'll give you )

We could do the same run down of names with Bahrain and AG2R.

As for Movistar, they have taken a gamble on the first 9 days..... if they survive that, they are a stronger team in the mountains.

I also think it is a wild assumption, that Fuglsang will have "no help" in the mountains...... did Kangert, Fraile, Hansen, Sanchez, Valgren and Cort all forget to climb, since last I saw them in the mountains?

Do that for Bahrain please!

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

People are getting very hot under the collar and not even one pedal has been pushed at this years Tour
Have to say Astana is a far cry from the team of Nibali, Aru & Landa of a few years back

For me the strongest team on paper is SKY followed by Barhrain but the team to watch is Movistar...how will they ride , what way will they play it and what happens if all 3 amigoes are in the top 5 and Frooome goes off ...who will chase

I don't think anyone is comparing them to that Astana team. The Bahrain team is comparable to others but I don't regard them as the second best team on paper. Movistar could implode if they have early problems but if they work well for one leader they should be strong. Michelton showed the advantages of having multiple riders in the top 10 in the Giro but then it went pear shaped when Chaves got sick and the rest is history. If Sky open up a sizeable gap after the TT it should make the final week more entertaining with many climbers needing to make up ground. The perfect scenario for Thomas if Froome start to falter. Whether Thomas could take advantage of that and finish off a strong three weeks is another matter.

Except that if all 3 are in the top 5 we will still have 3 leaders. Actually if they are all in the top 10 we still have 3 leaders. However you're both forgetting that Soler and Amador are also on this team. IF Soler is on form and that is a question, he will be there with them in the high mountains.
Actually because of the make up of the team I actually don't think they'll fully implode. They've sent a team that is loyal to Valverde and he won't let them implode if Landa and Quintana get into a war with each other. The rest will still do their jobs and just ignore anything that's going on between Landa and Quintana. Valverde won't get in the middle of it either unless he tries to play referee.

 

[Bot. Sky_Bot]

Re: Re:

People are getting very hot under the collar and not even one pedal has been pushed at this years Tour
Have to say Astana is a far cry from the team of Nibali, Aru & Landa of a few years back

For me the strongest team on paper is SKY followed by Barhrain but the team to watch is Movistar...how will they ride , what way will they play it and what happens if all 3 amigoes are in the top 5 and Frooome goes off ...who will chase

I don't think anyone is comparing them to that Astana team. The Bahrain team is comparable to others but I don't regard them as the second best team on paper. Movistar could implode if they have early problems but if they work well for one leader they should be strong. Michelton showed the advantages of having multiple riders in the top 10 in the Giro but then it went pear shaped when Chaves got sick and the rest is history. If Sky open up a sizeable gap after the TT it should make the final week more entertaining with many climbers needing to make up ground. The perfect scenario for Thomas if Froome start to falter. Whether Thomas could take advantage of that and finish off a strong three weeks is another matter.

Except that if all 3 are in the top 5 we will still have 3 leaders. Actually if they are all in the top 10 we still have 3 leaders. However you're both forgetting that Soler and Amador are also on this team. IF Soler is on form and that is a question, he will be there with them in the high mountains.
Actually because of the make up of the team I actually don't think they'll fully implode. They've sent a team that is loyal to Valverde and he won't let them implode if Landa and Quintana get into a war with each other. The rest will still do their jobs and just ignore anything that's going on between Landa and Quintana. Valverde won't get in the middle of it either unless he tries to play referee.

Finally, I hope we will have quite SMART cooperation between Sky and Landa (as well as Porte). And everybody will be happy (except of Quintana and Nibali): they all establish in a smart way the podium of TdF: Froome, Porte/Landa.
What's the threat: aspirations of GT..

 

[Bot. Sky_Bot]

M. Indurain:
"My favorite is Chris Froome (Team Sky). He is the strongest and I think he also had the time to recover the effort of the Tour of Italy won in May. Then there are 5-10 strong runners, but one step below. Among them I include Tom Dumoulin (Team Sunweb), Vincenzo Nibali (Bahrain Merida), Romain Bardet (AG2R La Mondiale) and Mikel Landa Meana (Movistar) ".

 

[silvergrenade]

Re:

M. Indurain:
"My favorite is Chris Froome (Team Sky). He is the strongest and I think he also had the time to recover the effort of the Tour of Italy won in May. Then there are 5-10 strong runners, but one step below. Among them I include Tom Dumoulin (Team Sunweb), Vincenzo Nibali (Bahrain Merida), Romain Bardet (AG2R La Mondiale) and Mikel Landa Meana (Movistar) ".

I would've actually believed him had he said Quintana instead of overrated Landa

 

[Escarabajo]

Indurain is very objective!

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

People are getting very hot under the collar and not even one pedal has been pushed at this years Tour
Have to say Astana is a far cry from the team of Nibali, Aru & Landa of a few years back

For me the strongest team on paper is SKY followed by Barhrain but the team to watch is Movistar...how will they ride , what way will they play it and what happens if all 3 amigoes are in the top 5 and Frooome goes off ...who will chase

I don't think anyone is comparing them to that Astana team. The Bahrain team is comparable to others but I don't regard them as the second best team on paper. Movistar could implode if they have early problems but if they work well for one leader they should be strong. Michelton showed the advantages of having multiple riders in the top 10 in the Giro but then it went pear shaped when Chaves got sick and the rest is history. If Sky open up a sizeable gap after the TT it should make the final week more entertaining with many climbers needing to make up ground. The perfect scenario for Thomas if Froome start to falter. Whether Thomas could take advantage of that and finish off a strong three weeks is another matter.

Except that if all 3 are in the top 5 we will still have 3 leaders. Actually if they are all in the top 10 we still have 3 leaders. However you're both forgetting that Soler and Amador are also on this team. IF Soler is on form and that is a question, he will be there with them in the high mountains.
Actually because of the make up of the team I actually don't think they'll fully implode. They've sent a team that is loyal to Valverde and he won't let them implode if Landa and Quintana get into a war with each other. The rest will still do their jobs and just ignore anything that's going on between Landa and Quintana. Valverde won't get in the middle of it either unless he tries to play referee.

Finally, I hope we will have quite SMART cooperation between Sky and Landa (as well as Porte). And everybody will be happy (except of Quintana and Nibali): they all establish in a smart way the podium of TdF: Froome, Porte/Landa.
What's the threat: aspirations of GT..

LOL.
"A team loyal to Valverde" what does that even mean???

 

[Bot. Sky_Bot]

Re: Re:

People are getting very hot under the collar and not even one pedal has been pushed at this years Tour
Have to say Astana is a far cry from the team of Nibali, Aru & Landa of a few years back

For me the strongest team on paper is SKY followed by Barhrain but the team to watch is Movistar...how will they ride , what way will they play it and what happens if all 3 amigoes are in the top 5 and Frooome goes off ...who will chase

I don't think anyone is comparing them to that Astana team. The Bahrain team is comparable to others but I don't regard them as the second best team on paper. Movistar could implode if they have early problems but if they work well for one leader they should be strong. Michelton showed the advantages of having multiple riders in the top 10 in the Giro but then it went pear shaped when Chaves got sick and the rest is history. If Sky open up a sizeable gap after the TT it should make the final week more entertaining with many climbers needing to make up ground. The perfect scenario for Thomas if Froome start to falter. Whether Thomas could take advantage of that and finish off a strong three weeks is another matter.

Except that if all 3 are in the top 5 we will still have 3 leaders. Actually if they are all in the top 10 we still have 3 leaders. However you're both forgetting that Soler and Amador are also on this team. IF Soler is on form and that is a question, he will be there with them in the high mountains.
Actually because of the make up of the team I actually don't think they'll fully implode. They've sent a team that is loyal to Valverde and he won't let them implode if Landa and Quintana get into a war with each other. The rest will still do their jobs and just ignore anything that's going on between Landa and Quintana. Valverde won't get in the middle of it either unless he tries to play referee.

Finally, I hope we will have quite SMART cooperation between Sky and Landa (as well as Porte). And everybody will be happy (except of Quintana and Nibali): they all establish in a smart way the podium of TdF: Froome, Porte/Landa.
What's the threat: aspirations of GT..

LOL.
"A team loyal to Valverde" what does that even mean???

That's means nothing beacuse Valverde will be nowhere, talking about GC. Ask Koronin - she has the best knowledge of Movistar's tactics, doesn't she?

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

People are getting very hot under the collar and not even one pedal has been pushed at this years Tour
Have to say Astana is a far cry from the team of Nibali, Aru & Landa of a few years back

For me the strongest team on paper is SKY followed by Barhrain but the team to watch is Movistar...how will they ride , what way will they play it and what happens if all 3 amigoes are in the top 5 and Frooome goes off ...who will chase

I don't think anyone is comparing them to that Astana team. The Bahrain team is comparable to others but I don't regard them as the second best team on paper. Movistar could implode if they have early problems but if they work well for one leader they should be strong. Michelton showed the advantages of having multiple riders in the top 10 in the Giro but then it went pear shaped when Chaves got sick and the rest is history. If Sky open up a sizeable gap after the TT it should make the final week more entertaining with many climbers needing to make up ground. The perfect scenario for Thomas if Froome start to falter. Whether Thomas could take advantage of that and finish off a strong three weeks is another matter.

Except that if all 3 are in the top 5 we will still have 3 leaders. Actually if they are all in the top 10 we still have 3 leaders. However you're both forgetting that Soler and Amador are also on this team. IF Soler is on form and that is a question, he will be there with them in the high mountains.
Actually because of the make up of the team I actually don't think they'll fully implode. They've sent a team that is loyal to Valverde and he won't let them implode if Landa and Quintana get into a war with each other. The rest will still do their jobs and just ignore anything that's going on between Landa and Quintana. Valverde won't get in the middle of it either unless he tries to play referee.

Finally, I hope we will have quite SMART cooperation between Sky and Landa (as well as Porte). And everybody will be happy (except of Quintana and Nibali): they all establish in a smart way the podium of TdF: Froome, Porte/Landa.
What's the threat: aspirations of GT..

LOL.
"A team loyal to Valverde" what does that even mean???

Presumably the argument is that the Movistar domestiques won’t split into rival camps even if Quintana and Landa end up openly riding against each other but will more or less follow Valverde’s lead (and through Valverde, Unzue). So no Carrera / Visentini / Roche style factions. Maybe this is right, maybe it’s wrong, but it doesn’t seem like a bizarre point of view. If Valverde says ride or don’t ride I find it hard to imagine Soler, say, or Rojas, deciding otherwise.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

People are getting very hot under the collar and not even one pedal has been pushed at this years Tour
Have to say Astana is a far cry from the team of Nibali, Aru & Landa of a few years back

For me the strongest team on paper is SKY followed by Barhrain but the team to watch is Movistar...how will they ride , what way will they play it and what happens if all 3 amigoes are in the top 5 and Frooome goes off ...who will chase

I don't think anyone is comparing them to that Astana team. The Bahrain team is comparable to others but I don't regard them as the second best team on paper. Movistar could implode if they have early problems but if they work well for one leader they should be strong. Michelton showed the advantages of having multiple riders in the top 10 in the Giro but then it went pear shaped when Chaves got sick and the rest is history. If Sky open up a sizeable gap after the TT it should make the final week more entertaining with many climbers needing to make up ground. The perfect scenario for Thomas if Froome start to falter. Whether Thomas could take advantage of that and finish off a strong three weeks is another matter.

Except that if all 3 are in the top 5 we will still have 3 leaders. Actually if they are all in the top 10 we still have 3 leaders. However you're both forgetting that Soler and Amador are also on this team. IF Soler is on form and that is a question, he will be there with them in the high mountains.
Actually because of the make up of the team I actually don't think they'll fully implode. They've sent a team that is loyal to Valverde and he won't let them implode if Landa and Quintana get into a war with each other. The rest will still do their jobs and just ignore anything that's going on between Landa and Quintana. Valverde won't get in the middle of it either unless he tries to play referee.

Finally, I hope we will have quite SMART cooperation between Sky and Landa (as well as Porte). And everybody will be happy (except of Quintana and Nibali): they all establish in a smart way the podium of TdF: Froome, Porte/Landa.
What's the threat: aspirations of GT..

LOL.
"A team loyal to Valverde" what does that even mean???

Presumably the argument is that the Movistar domestiques won’t split into rival camps even if Quintana and Landa end up openly riding against each other but will more or less follow Valverde’s lead (and through Valverde, Unzue). So no Carrera / Visentini / Roche style factions. Maybe this is right, maybe it’s wrong, but it doesn’t seem like a bizarre point of view. If Valverde says ride or don’t ride I find it hard to imagine Soler, say, or Rojas, deciding otherwise.[/quote]


This is exactly what I am meaning by "a teal loyal to Valverde". If Landa and Quintana get into a war and start attacking each other, the rest of the team will follow Valverde (and thus Unzue). The team won't split, they won't be torn apart, they won't implode which has been something that many of speculated about. I actually believe this is part of why the team wants Valverde at the Tour this year and why this is the team being sent.

 

[Bot. Sky_Bot]

Re: Re:

People are getting very hot under the collar and not even one pedal has been pushed at this years Tour
Have to say Astana is a far cry from the team of Nibali, Aru & Landa of a few years back

For me the strongest team on paper is SKY followed by Barhrain but the team to watch is Movistar...how will they ride , what way will they play it and what happens if all 3 amigoes are in the top 5 and Frooome goes off ...who will chase

I don't think anyone is comparing them to that Astana team. The Bahrain team is comparable to others but I don't regard them as the second best team on paper. Movistar could implode if they have early problems but if they work well for one leader they should be strong. Michelton showed the advantages of having multiple riders in the top 10 in the Giro but then it went pear shaped when Chaves got sick and the rest is history. If Sky open up a sizeable gap after the TT it should make the final week more entertaining with many climbers needing to make up ground. The perfect scenario for Thomas if Froome start to falter. Whether Thomas could take advantage of that and finish off a strong three weeks is another matter.

Except that if all 3 are in the top 5 we will still have 3 leaders. Actually if they are all in the top 10 we still have 3 leaders. However you're both forgetting that Soler and Amador are also on this team. IF Soler is on form and that is a question, he will be there with them in the high mountains.
Actually because of the make up of the team I actually don't think they'll fully implode. They've sent a team that is loyal to Valverde and he won't let them implode if Landa and Quintana get into a war with each other. The rest will still do their jobs and just ignore anything that's going on between Landa and Quintana. Valverde won't get in the middle of it either unless he tries to play referee.

Finally, I hope we will have quite SMART cooperation between Sky and Landa (as well as Porte). And everybody will be happy (except of Quintana and Nibali): they all establish in a smart way the podium of TdF: Froome, Porte/Landa.
What's the threat: aspirations of GT..

And now it must be explained (kind of misunderstaining): I meant that the threat for whole tactics is GT: GERAINT THOMAS.................

 

[GuyIncognito]

Clément Guillou says Froome's been barred from the race by ASO

And if Guillou says it, surely it's true.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Clément Guillou says Froome's been barred from the race by ASO

And if Guillou says it, surely it's true.

Interesting. I think it will make for a better race, so Im not complaining.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Never saw such an explosive build-up to the Tour de France, apart from Puerto.

 

[DNP-Old]

That's foul.

 

[Tim Booth]

Re:

Clément Guillou says Froome's been barred from the race by ASO

And if Guillou says it, surely it's true.

L’équipe Sky a bien évidemment fait appel de cette décision devant la chambre arbitrale du Comité national olympique du sport français (CNOSF) et défendra son cas mardi 3 juillet, à partir de 9 heures. La décision devrait être communiquée le lendemain.

http://www.lemonde.fr/tour-de-france/article/2018/07/01/christopher-froome-ecarte-du-tour-de-france-par-les-organisateurs-l-equipe-sky-fait-appel_5323956_1616918.html

 

[DNP-Old]

ASO hiding behind ''damage to image or reputation of ASO or the event". That's cool and all, but then why allow Valverde to start, for instance?

 

[Tim Booth]

Re:

ASO hiding behind ''damage to image or reputation of ASO or the event". That's cool and all, but then why allow Valverde to start, for instance?

is Valverde under investigation at the moment ?

 

[DNP-Old]

Re: Re:

ASO hiding behind ''damage to image or reputation of ASO or the event". That's cool and all, but then why allow Valverde to start, for instance?

is Valverde under investigation at the moment ?

That's not what the ASO are ruling him out for.

 

[tobydawq]

It's damaging for the image and reputation to let a rider start, see him win and subsequently disqualify him when that turn of events could be predicted beforehand.

It's not damaging to the image and reputation to let a rider ride who has served a suspension many years ago. That is following the rules.

 

[Tim Booth]

Re: Re:

ASO hiding behind ''damage to image or reputation of ASO or the event". That's cool and all, but then why allow Valverde to start, for instance?

is Valverde under investigation at the moment ?

That's not what the ASO are ruling him out for.

read the Le Monde article
en raison de la procédure pour dopage ouverte à son encontre.
=
because of the open doping procedure against him.

 

[DNP-Old]

Re: Re:

ASO hiding behind ''damage to image or reputation of ASO or the event". That's cool and all, but then why allow Valverde to start, for instance?

is Valverde under investigation at the moment ?

That's not what the ASO are ruling him out for.

read the Le Monde article
en raison de la procédure pour dopage ouverte à son encontre.
=
because of the open doping procedure against him.

That's cool. This is the official ruling they are hiding behind:

L’organisateur s’appuie sur l’article 28 de son règlement qui, conformément au règlement de l’Union cycliste internationale (UCI), « se réserve expressément la faculté de refuser la participation à – ou d’exclure de – l’épreuve, une équipe ou l’un de ses membres, dont la présence serait de nature à porter atteinte à l’image ou à la réputation d’ASO ou de l’épreuve ».

the right to refuse or exclude a team, or any of its members, whose presence would be damaging the image or reputation of ASO or the race. As if Valverde and his history with Puerto wouldn't be damaging to the image of the race. Better yet, as if excluding Froome wouldn't be be damaging to the image of ASO or the race. :lol:

 

[HelloDolly]

Sky had every chance since Ocober ( nealry a year) to clear Froome...They havent put the case
If ASO want to keep him out of the race then that is their prerogative

He should not have ridden the Giro imo but SKY cited he could based on the rules
Well the rules allow him to be excluded from the Tour