Predict the Giro-Tour-Vuelta wildcards! (2nd edition)

[yaco]

Vuelta organisers have more faith in the two new Spanish PCT's - I have no issue with one receiving a wildcard, but both is a stretch.

 

[staubsauger]

Yeah me too. I fully understand that they immediately want to support the rebuilded Euskadi squad. But instead of Burgos I personally would've invited a international team like Aqua Blue Sport.

That said, I hope Infront now is intelligent enough to hand out wildcards to Nippo and Aqua Blue Sport for the Tour of Switzerland!

 

[MADRAZO]

As long as there are no serious difference in the level of the wild card candidates from Spain and other candidates like Aqua Blue Sport, Manzana, Nippo, CCC, Gasprom and so on, it makes sence that the Vuelta picks the spanish teams. Despite their stagewin last year Aqua Blue Sport is still a very mediocre team and both new spanish procontinental teams should be able to do as well as them.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re:

As long as there are no serious difference in the level of the wild card candidates from Spain and other candidates like Aqua Blue Sport, Manzana, Nippo, CCC, Gasprom and so on, it makes sence that the Vuelta picks the spanish teams. Despite their stagewin last year Aqua Blue Sport is still a very mediocre team and both new spanish procontinental teams should be able to do as well as them.

Let’s see if the new Spanish teams, neither of which have existed long enough to do anything of note, both win stages or manage anything beforehand like winning a stage of Suisse. My guess is neither will, certainly they wont both do so. I can understand the urge to help Spanish domestic cycling infrastructure start to improve again after the doldrums years, but let’s not pretend that this kind of decision is being made on quality grounds. If these teams weren’t based in a country with a GT neither of them would even make a shortlist of possible invites, certainly not before they’ve even raced. Particularly not the Basques. Then again Cofidis would no way get a second GT invite if they weren't buying it.

 

[Bye Bye Bicycle]

Re: Re:

As long as there are no serious difference in the level of the wild card candidates from Spain and other candidates like Aqua Blue Sport, Manzana, Nippo, CCC, Gasprom and so on, it makes sence that the Vuelta picks the spanish teams. Despite their stagewin last year Aqua Blue Sport is still a very mediocre team and both new spanish procontinental teams should be able to do as well as them.

Let’s see if the new Spanish teams, neither of which have existed long enough to do anything of note, both win stages or manage anything beforehand like winning a stage of Suisse. My guess is neither will, certainly they wont both do so. I can understand the urge to help Spanish domestic cycling infrastructure start to improve again after the doldrums years, but let’s not pretend that this kind of decision is being made on quality grounds. If these teams weren’t based in a country with a GT neither of them would even make a shortlist of possible invites, certainly not before they’ve even raced. Particularly not the Basques. Then again Cofidis would no way get a second GT invite if they weren't buying it.

??? Both teams have a well-established history. The Euskadi-Murias team is in its fourth year, Burgos is active since 2008. They are anything but new.

 

[MADRAZO]

Re: Re:

As long as there are no serious difference in the level of the wild card candidates from Spain and other candidates like Aqua Blue Sport, Manzana, Nippo, CCC, Gasprom and so on, it makes sence that the Vuelta picks the spanish teams. Despite their stagewin last year Aqua Blue Sport is still a very mediocre team and both new spanish procontinental teams should be able to do as well as them.

Let’s see if the new Spanish teams, neither of which have existed long enough to do anything of note, both win stages or manage anything beforehand like winning a stage of Suisse. My guess is neither will, certainly they wont both do so. I can understand the urge to help Spanish domestic cycling infrastructure start to improve again after the doldrums years, but let’s not pretend that this kind of decision is being made on quality grounds. If these teams weren’t based in a country with a GT neither of them would even make a shortlist of possible invites, certainly not before they’ve even raced. Particularly not the Basques. Then again Cofidis would no way get a second GT invite if they weren't buying it.

Surely they are not picked because they are the strongest candidates, but they are picked because they are not much behind the other candidates. There are not that big a difference. Both the spanish teams (especially Burgos) may lack some depht but can put together a decent 8-man teams that are not much worse than what the other teams can do. If there were a significant gap in the quality they would likely not have gotten the wild cards I would guess, but now when its fairly even then ofcourse the spanish race picks them instead of other very mediocre teams like Aqua Blue Sport.

And yes its very likely they wont win a stage, but it would also be likely that Aqua Blue Sport or the other candidate-teams would not either, despite Denifls one great day last year. Riders like Mamykin from Burgos or for instance Prades from Euskadi should on paper have just as good a chance.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

As long as there are no serious difference in the level of the wild card candidates from Spain and other candidates like Aqua Blue Sport, Manzana, Nippo, CCC, Gasprom and so on, it makes sence that the Vuelta picks the spanish teams. Despite their stagewin last year Aqua Blue Sport is still a very mediocre team and both new spanish procontinental teams should be able to do as well as them.

Let’s see if the new Spanish teams, neither of which have existed long enough to do anything of note, both win stages or manage anything beforehand like winning a stage of Suisse. My guess is neither will, certainly they wont both do so. I can understand the urge to help Spanish domestic cycling infrastructure start to improve again after the doldrums years, but let’s not pretend that this kind of decision is being made on quality grounds. If these teams weren’t based in a country with a GT neither of them would even make a shortlist of possible invites, certainly not before they’ve even raced. Particularly not the Basques. Then again Cofidis would no way get a second GT invite if they weren't buying it.

??? Both teams have a well-established history. The Euskadi-Murias team is in its fourth year, Burgos is active since 2008. They are anything but new.

Not as pro teams.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re

As long as there are no serious difference in the level of the wild card candidates from Spain and other candidates like Aqua Blue Sport, Manzana, Nippo, CCC, Gasprom and so on, it makes sence that the Vuelta picks the spanish teams. Despite their stagewin last year Aqua Blue Sport is still a very mediocre team and both new spanish procontinental teams should be able to do as well as them.

Let’s see if the new Spanish teams, neither of which have existed long enough to do anything of note, both win stages or manage anything beforehand like winning a stage of Suisse. My guess is neither will, certainly they wont both do so. I can understand the urge to help Spanish domestic cycling infrastructure start to improve again after the doldrums years, but let’s not pretend that this kind of decision is being made on quality grounds. If these teams weren’t based in a country with a GT neither of them would even make a shortlist of possible invites, certainly not before they’ve even raced. Particularly not the Basques. Then again Cofidis would no way get a second GT invite if they weren't buying it.

Surely they are not picked because they are the strongest candidates, but they are picked because they are not much behind the other candidates. There are not that big a difference. Both the spanish teams (especially Burgos) may lack some depht but can put together a decent 8-man teams that are not much worse than what the other teams can do. If there were a significant gap in the quality they would likely not have gotten the wild cards I would guess, but now when its fairly even then ofcourse the spanish race picks them instead of other very mediocre teams like Aqua Blue Sport.

They aren’t the strongest candidates or the sixth strongest candidates or probably the tenth strongest candidates. They are new pro teams, full of Conti level riders stepping up. They are in because Unipublic wants to help Spanish domestic cycling recover from the carnage of the last few years. That’s a perfectly reasonable goal, certainly one that can be defended on its own terms. But don’t pretend to yourself or others that they are in for any other reason or that sporting considerations played any role in the choice. That’s just delusion.

We are now in a situation where only Wanty of all of the PCT teams not based in one of the three host countries have a GT wildcard without very obviously having to buy it. For all we know they bought their’s too. Actual strength of teams is currently only relevant when it comes to choosing between French or Italian teams that are already qualified for the Tour or Giro by nationality.

Just look at Euskadi Murias team. A squad full of 20 riders of which all of three were riding at PCT level last year and none at Pro Tour level. Their rider with the highest level prior experience is nepotism case Enrique Sanz. And it isn’t as if this is a choice being made after they’ve done something notable this season. This is on paper the weakest team to get a GT invite in more than a decade, possibly a lot longer. Most of its riders only have contracts because of where they are from, so it’s only fitting that they get a wildcard purely on the basis of where they are from. I say this as someone who is glad to see a Basque team back in the pro ranks and who is hoping for them to do well. But basic honesty means not pretending that quality has anything to do with their selection.

 

[AupaPyama]

Re: Re:

As long as there are no serious difference in the level of the wild card candidates from Spain and other candidates like Aqua Blue Sport, Manzana, Nippo, CCC, Gasprom and so on, it makes sence that the Vuelta picks the spanish teams. Despite their stagewin last year Aqua Blue Sport is still a very mediocre team and both new spanish procontinental teams should be able to do as well as them.

Let’s see if the new Spanish teams, neither of which have existed long enough to do anything of note, both win stages or manage anything beforehand like winning a stage of Suisse. My guess is neither will, certainly they wont both do so. I can understand the urge to help Spanish domestic cycling infrastructure start to improve again after the doldrums years, but let’s not pretend that this kind of decision is being made on quality grounds. If these teams weren’t based in a country with a GT neither of them would even make a shortlist of possible invites, certainly not before they’ve even raced. Particularly not the Basques. Then again Cofidis would no way get a second GT invite if they weren't buying it.

Looks like you don’t like the Basque Squad? Because Burgos is way below on CQRanking. And when I say below I mean waaay below, 23 places down. Murias is on the same level as Caja Rural.
I also think you underestimate Aberasturi; with a lot of wins last year and previous WT experience. With Sanz and Prades its A Nice train. Also very nice to see Bravo again.
Also Loubet had 2 wins in 2017 and Samitier and Barcelo are very talenten. Well deserved wild card I think.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

As long as there are no serious difference in the level of the wild card candidates from Spain and other candidates like Aqua Blue Sport, Manzana, Nippo, CCC, Gasprom and so on, it makes sence that the Vuelta picks the spanish teams. Despite their stagewin last year Aqua Blue Sport is still a very mediocre team and both new spanish procontinental teams should be able to do as well as them.

Let’s see if the new Spanish teams, neither of which have existed long enough to do anything of note, both win stages or manage anything beforehand like winning a stage of Suisse. My guess is neither will, certainly they wont both do so. I can understand the urge to help Spanish domestic cycling infrastructure start to improve again after the doldrums years, but let’s not pretend that this kind of decision is being made on quality grounds. If these teams weren’t based in a country with a GT neither of them would even make a shortlist of possible invites, certainly not before they’ve even raced. Particularly not the Basques. Then again Cofidis would no way get a second GT invite if they weren't buying it.

Looks like you don’t like the Basque Squad? Because Burgos is way below on CQRanking. And when I say below I mean waaay below, 23 places down. Murias is on the same level as Caja Rural.
I also think you underestimate Aberasturi; with a lot of wins last year and previous WT experience. With Sanz and Prades its A Nice train. Also very nice to see Bravo again.
Also Loubet had 2 wins in 2017 and Samitier and Barcelo are very talenten. Well deserved wild card I think.

I do like them. But not enough to delude myself that quality had anything to do with their selection. They are a team of 20, 17 of whom were riding at Conti level - or in quite a few cases below that - in 2017, with none of the other three riding in the WT. If they were based outside of Spain they wouldn't make a shortlist of ten teams. Neither would Burgos. I've no problem with people arguing that they should get invites for the good of Spanish cycling, but people arguing that quality had something to do with it are just nuts.

(If Aquablue are the comparison people want to make there are 2 Aquablue riders who were Conti riders last year. One won the U23 European Road Race, the other won the U23 Ronde.)

 

[FilipeFD]

confirmed as expected

Caja Rural
Cofidis
Burgos - BH
Euskadi - Murias

http://cyclingpub.com/article/3726/La+Vuelta+favours+Spanish+teams+in+Wildcards+election

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re:

confirmed as expected

Caja Rural
Cofidis
Burgos - BH
Euskadi - Murias

http://cyclingpub.com/article/3726/La+Vuelta+favours+Spanish+teams+in+Wildcards+election

Three nationality picks with 0 (zero) pro wins between them this season and one pay to play pick.