Preperation time

[The Hegelian]

What does everyone "do" in this funny little period leading up to the tour?

i.e. the tour peloton is always so well 'prepared'. They hit the ground absolutely cherry ripe and flying. Obviously there is much that is done in the months leading up to it, especially the GC guys. But what happens in the few weeks before? What gets used, and how, and what are the benefits?

Good knowledge about this, even if a little speculative, would be appreciated.

 

[ebandit]

by now the hard work is done

rest.......meditate.............focus

light a candle..................for the good luck gods

Mark L

 

[Lyon]

I think it's mostly about logistics this close to the Tour. A lot of nervous DS's, soigneurs, drivers etc. A lot can go wrong. That's where having a big budget comes in handy...

 

[cnc-it]

Funny thing though..if training at altitude is now the done thing to keep the red blood cell count high..how can a rider compete in the Giro..then rest up (not at altitude)..do a few reci stages in the mountains then go to the TDF with a high red blood cell count..surely the effects of altitude training done before the Giro would have long since worn off and also doesn't racing lower the blood count anyway...?? Same if a guy does the Dauphine..then rests up before the Tour..the benefits of all that training at altitude are already on the wain...correct me if I'm wrong..how long does the benefit of altitude training last before you are back to normal..

 

[sniper]

Re:

Funny thing though..if training at altitude is now the done thing to keep the red blood cell count high..how can a rider compete in the Giro..then rest up (not at altitude)..do a few reci stages in the mountains then go to the TDF with a high red blood cell count..surely the effects of altitude training done before the Giro would have long since worn off and also doesn't racing lower the blood count anyway...?? Same if a guy does the Dauphine..then rests up before the Tour..the benefits of all that training at altitude are already on the wain...correct me if I'm wrong..how long does the benefit of altitude training last before you are back to normal..

you serious?
the only benefits of altitude training is it allows you to gear up and evade testing.

 

[sniper]

the interesting thing is that very few teams do reconnaissance.
it's not even a marginal gain compared to what peds bring you.

 

[cnc-it]

Well yes but anybody with little knowledge will know that training at altitude doesn't have long lasting effects..is it 3 weeks or so not sure..so even as a cover for doping practices it shouldn't seem remotely plausible to a doping panel you wouldn't think..yet the UCI have only started doing test at mount tied this year?

Ok yes I was tongue in cheek on the first post but the Giro Tour double seems even more of a joke now I come to think of it!!

 

[franic]

Re:

Well yes but anybody with little knowledge will know that training at altitude doesn't have long lasting effects..is it 3 weeks or so not sure..so even as a cover for doping practices it shouldn't seem remotely plausible to a doping panel you wouldn't think..yet the UCI have only started doing test at mount tied this year?

Ok yes I was tongue in cheek on the first post but the Giro Tour double seems even more of a joke now I come to think of it!!

Contador can still say he uses altitude tents…
By the way, where has he been during this period apart the 3 days at Route du Sud?

 

[cnc-it]

I'de like to know where he's been as well...resting I imagine but not training at high altitude..

 

[infeXio]

Re: Re:

Well yes but anybody with little knowledge will know that training at altitude doesn't have long lasting effects..is it 3 weeks or so not sure..so even as a cover for doping practices it shouldn't seem remotely plausible to a doping panel you wouldn't think..yet the UCI have only started doing test at mount tied this year?

Ok yes I was tongue in cheek on the first post but the Giro Tour double seems even more of a joke now I come to think of it!!

Contador can still say he uses altitude tents…
By the way, where has he been during this period apart the 3 days at Route du Sud?

Around his home in Lugano, in Livigno and apparently around the mountains near Madrid

AFAIK ^^

 

[franic]

Anyway, the last three guys able to do the Giro+Tour were Roche, Indurain and Pantani. I guess it's not hard to find something they all have in common...

 

[sniper]

Re:

Well yes but anybody with little knowledge will know that training at altitude doesn't have long lasting effects..is it 3 weeks or so not sure..so even as a cover for doping practices it shouldn't seem remotely plausible to a doping panel you wouldn't think..yet the UCI have only started doing test at mount tied this year?

Ok yes I was tongue in cheek on the first post but the Giro Tour double seems even more of a joke now I come to think of it!!

yeah, i see your point and it's a good point.

 

[blackcat]

crit at high numbers, not too high to alert the vampires and the APB testers.

minimum 3x 500ml packed red cells ready to go.

motoman and good refrigeration plans

p'raps some recovery dope, some insulin, some testo, some hgh, and a powerful corticosteroid. if you want to compete for the GC. and a damn good team doctor.

 

[cnc-it]

Re:

crit at high numbers, not too high to alert the vampires and the APB testers.

minimum 3x 500ml packed red cells ready to go.

motoman and good refrigeration plans

p'raps some recovery dope, some insulin, some testo, some hgh, and a powerful corticosteroid. if you want to compete for the GC. and a damn good team doctor.

Yes agree also the blood bags will give a small drop in bone marrow activity so a micro dose of EPO at night to keep the bone marrow producing would be on the cards as well probably..just so nothing flags up on an out of competition test..if he's had one that is..not holding my breath

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Re:

Well yes but anybody with little knowledge will know that training at altitude doesn't have long lasting effects..is it 3 weeks or so not sure..so even as a cover for doping practices it shouldn't seem remotely plausible to a doping panel you wouldn't think..yet the UCI have only started doing test at mount tied this year?

Ok yes I was tongue in cheek on the first post but the Giro Tour double seems even more of a joke now I come to think of it!!

There are some mixed perspectives on altitude, scientifically and through athlete knowledge.

For the clean, altitude non-native or non-resident, altitude training is not for race-specific training. The literature shows that while altitude does boost some blood and other physiological parameters, the trade off of only being able to work at train at lower intensities makes coming down from altitude just as important as going up. For the same reason that the early season lon,long and slow training ride isn't meant to make you faster, but to be able to sustain later-season race-specific training, altitude training (for this population) is just for building the physical infrastructure for better training, closer to your target. So it doesn't matter if the effects of altitude wear off, because they don't effect the race performance as much. Put another way, athletes spend most of their time training to train. Weightlifting, aerobic sessions, pure speed, don't train the atglete for the demands of the race. Instead, those sessions are there to support the sessions that are race-specific; those are the seasions that do affect performance much more directly. Altitude is very similar. It has a role, and must be consodered in the overal periodization)

For the dirty athlete, altitude is an easy way to explain problematic bariations in the biopassport caused by blood doping. The drugs are more powerful than the performance boost of higher intensity training of sea-level training. Staying at altitude longer opens a longer window for doping.

For the clean altitude native or resident, staying at altitude for a while is usually out of convenience. More, natives are more adapt to manage higher intenisities at altidude, so staying at altitude is less of a detriment on their late season, more race specific training.

When it comes to changes in performance, both reasearch and anecdote (of clean athletes) seem to show that training and living at altitude makes you better at performing at altidude than sea level only athletes, while both groups' sea level performances are more equal. So what matter is less about where you are training, but what kind of training you can do. Repeating above, for a clean athlete, altitude is a trade-off and must be periodized. For the doped, it is a cover, and there is less of a physiological trade off. For the clean altitude resident, the trade-off of lower intensity matter a little less because they are a little more adept, but it is still irellevent if the performance is at sea level.

I hope that made sense...

 

[The Hegelian]

Re:

by now the hard work is done

rest.......meditate.............focus

light a candle..................for the good luck gods

Mark L

So are you saying the main game is doping to increase training loads, which must occur well before this period? And once you've got your max watts, you just cruise/maintain?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re: Re:

by now the hard work is done

rest.......meditate.............focus

light a candle..................for the good luck gods

Mark L

So are you saying the main game is doping to increase training loads, which must occur well before this period? And once you've got your max watts, you just cruise/maintain?

I'd agree but for the lack of week 3 decline. I just don't see how you can avoid that through training alone.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

by now the hard work is done

rest.......meditate.............focus

light a candle..................for the good luck gods

Mark L

So are you saying the main game is doping to increase training loads, which must occur well before this period? And once you've got your max watts, you just cruise/maintain?

Pretty much. If you don't have your aerobic base sorted with 3-4 weeks to go, then you won't get it in time for an effective ride, no matter what role you have.*

The last month will be dedicated to recovery and sprints/climbing surges. Speed can be honed in a couple of weeks but strength takes months. Any doping taken during the race will be enough to maintain as effectively as possible without tripping any wires.

*Maybe, MAYBE an experienced pure climbing domestique who doesn't have to be good until late week 2/3 can get away with it if their prep is interrupted.

 

[ebandit]

chill

by now the hard work is done

rest.......meditate.............focus

light a candle..................for the good luck gods

Mark L

So are you saying the main game is doping to increase training loads, which must occur well before this period? And once you've got your max watts, you just cruise/maintain?

i'm saying................chill...............be at peace with the world and the world will be at

peace with you.........

Mark L

i'm not saying anything about preparation...........that is up to the rider / ones perception

of cycle sport

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

by now the hard work is done

rest.......meditate.............focus

light a candle..................for the good luck gods

Mark L

So are you saying the main game is doping to increase training loads, which must occur well before this period? And once you've got your max watts, you just cruise/maintain?

but that is not "simple" and a case of merely cruising/maintaining.

the recovery doping is a major aspect. more blood. cortison. hgh. testo. insulin. recover recover recover. freddy viaene special massage oils. the go-fast variety like he did for Floyd.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=care_freddy
the art of muscle care

The art of muscle care

Self-help massage and preparation tips from US Postal-Berry Floor's chief soigneur

As chief soigneur of the US Postal-Berry Floor team, Freddy Viaene looks after Lance Armstrong and arguably the most powerful cycling team in the world. While talent and hard training is a big factor in USPS' successes, Freddy believes that how riders are looked after is also extremely important - and so is how you look after yourself.

Freddy Viaene is an internationally known sports trainer and sports massage therapist. He is the US Postal-Berry Floor Team's chief soigneur, which means "one who cares for" in French. Soigneurs are an important part of professional cycling. They provide not only specially designed protective massages for the riders, but all the details of keeping the teams fit and at top performance from the training table nutritional regime to providing proper feeding during the event.

Freddy Viaene has been involved in the international sporting circuit for almost two decades. He was a cyclist himself until an injury at 19 cut short his career. For five years he studied reflexology, shiatsu, macrobiotics and nutrition. He also became a certified personal trainer.

His combination of skill and knowledge of a broad range of techniques as a personal trainer has built his world-wide reputation for the ability to assess and treat his athletes accurately and effectively.

As a result of his expertise, many of the world's best-known competitive athletes choose Freddy Viaene as their sports therapist. His ability to treat the US Postal-Berry Floor team for maximum performance with minimum strain and injury is one of the team's secret weapons.

M. Viaene has just introduced his own line of balms, Freddy's Choice, using the formulas he has developed for US Postal-Berry Floor. For further information, see www.freddyschoice.com.

 

[TheSpud]

Re:

Anyway, the last three guys able to do the Giro+Tour were Roche, Indurain and Pantani. I guess it's not hard to find something they all have in common...

None of them failed a drugs test ... (although in fairness Pantani failed the Hematocrit test).

 

[TheSpud]

Re:

crit at high numbers, not too high to alert the vampires and the APB testers.

minimum 3x 500ml packed red cells ready to go.

motoman and good refrigeration plans

p'raps some recovery dope, some insulin, some testo, some hgh, and a powerful corticosteroid. if you want to compete for the GC. and a damn good team doctor.

Are people still doing 500ml bags? I thought the smart money was on smaller ones. If so would they do 6 x 250ml? Would that help keep the numbers level?

 

[nayr497]

Re:

the interesting thing is that very few teams do reconnaissance.
it's not even a marginal gain compared to what peds bring you.

How sad that pre-riding the course is no longer even part of the prep.

 

[ebandit]

............and it made such a good story..............

Mark L

 

[BYOP88]

Re:

Anyway, the last three guys able to do the Giro+Tour were Roche, Indurain and Pantani. I guess it's not hard to find something they all have in common...

They all rode bikes?