Pretty Sneaky.....LOL

[BigBoat]

Compare the 2/4/09 crit values on the two slides:

FIRST ONE

http://www.livestrong.com/lance-armstrong/blog/tag/testing/

2nd ONE

http://www.livestrong.com/lance-arm...sting-results-to-be-posted-at-livestrong-com/

The numbers Lance is posting are not the real numbers. Maybe somebody told Lance you cant go from 39 to 45 without a blood refill so he changed it to 43. lol

 

[El Imbatido]

Run Bigboat, Lance is on to you

I get "Error 404, Page cannot be found"

 

[BigBoat]

Run Bigboat, Lance is on to you

I get "Error 404, Page cannot be found"

I changed the links. They work now. Or should.

 

[davidg]

good catch, but before the conspiracy theorists start, dont forget that someone has to type these in to the web page.

Besides, it is easy for the agencies to confirm which of the figures is correct. Why would he post a figure which is different to what the agnecy releases. It would be too easy to be caught out by someone (like you)

 

[El Imbatido]

I'm no haemotologist bigboat so you will have to enlighten me........all i see is a model student with every test within the stipulated parameters if that is what you are suggesting

 

[BigBoat]

I'm no haemotologist bigboat so you will have to enlighten me........all i see is a model student with every test within the stipulated parameters if that is what you are suggesting

His 2-4-09 crit is listed at 45.5% on one slide and the next its 43.1%. Which was it? Which is is "supposed" to be. Because it cant be 2 diff values.

 

[El Imbatido]

thanks. I see now

 

[blackcat]

His 2-4-09 crit is listed at 45.5% on one slide and the next its 43.1%. Which was it? Which is is "supposed" to be. Because it cant be 2 diff values.

yeah it can, plasma expanders, hemodilution, ringers

no flames

 

[Zoncolan]

No! No! No!

You are just jealous and a hater!

Lance is the greatest that ever was and ever will be.

Hematocrit values don't match? I can't hear you! Lalalalalalalalalalala. LOL

Seriously though, it could have just been a typo.

 

[Cobber]

It might just be a type but presumably both images were a screen grab of an Excel document or something similar. Given that 2 numbers were changed, it seems less likely that it was a typo, but rather an "error" was corrected between the 2 versions.

What would be interesting is for a Hematologist to look at the variation in reticulocytes between samples. For example, the reticulocytes vary from 1.3 to 0.7 between 5/7/09 and 5/18/09. Is this kind of variation normal? Or evidence of a missed EPO microdose???

*Cue dramatic music*

 

[Eva Maria]

It is a French conspiracy. Somebody hacked the Livestrong server

 

[Digger]

You haters need to get a life. Get off your fat a&&es and go ride your bike. Your lives are so sad that you feel the need to criticise a guy who has done more for the world than any other human being, bar none. This guy changed the face of cycling, revolutionised the sport. His cadence change was something that nobody had ever thought of before, as was going on training camps. The guy trained harder than everyone else because cancer made him change his attitudes. He lost little or no weight, but look at how thin his face became. Come on guys, don't be so negative, give credit where it is due. Michele Ferrari, would it ever occur to you that he was doping other athletes who needed it more, but didn't dope Lance because he was so talented and there was no need. Lance is so anti-doping he can't even be in the peloton with a a guy who has doped (Simeoni). As if he'd put that sh** into his body after going through what he went through. We all know the reason EPO was in the sample - post cancer treatment obviously. Lemond is a jealous whiner wo got jealous when Lance became more successful. Shut up Greg, I used to like you, you were my hero. Now I just wish you'd go away. Don;t get me started on Betsy what's her name. Obviously she's jealous of the success Lance has had. L'Equipe are a tabloid. The French hate Lance because he was so good (Eventhough they loved Indurain, Merckx, Lemond, Anquetil).

In summation, Lance is a cancer surviving hero who kicked its a%% and now is back kicking its a&&, so you don't have to kick its a**. Lance being an egotistical d*** and bully makes me love him even more.

So there you go people, that's what we're arguing with. The sum parts of an argument with most Lance fans......

 

[Krebs cycle]

I think the variation in %retic value is borderline high, you rarely see it go much outside 0.9-1.2% under normal circumstances but values as high as 1.6-1.7% can be expected with altitude exposure. But then again, I have also seen %retics only go up to 1.5% in subjects that definately were taking EPO.

The value of 1.49% is a bit of a red flag. I would expect altitude or LHTL to have been occurring immediately prior to that date for it to be considered completely "non-suspicious".

 

[Krebs cycle]

You haters need to get a life. Get off your fat a&&es and go ride your bike. Your lives are so sad that you feel the need to criticise a guy who has done more for the world than any other human being, bar none. This guy changed the face of cycling, revolutionised the sport. His cadence change was something that nobody had ever thought of before, as was going on training camps. The guy trained harder than everyone else because cancer made him change his attitudes. He lost little or no weight, but look at how thin his face became. Come on guys, don't be so negative, give credit where it is due. Michele Ferrari, would it ever occur to you that he was doping other athletes who needed it more, but didn't dope Lance because he was so talented and there was no need. Lance is so anti-doping he can't even be in the peloton with a a guy who has doped (Simeoni). As if he'd put that sh** into his body after going through what he went through. We all know the reason EPO was in the sample - post cancer treatment obviously. Lemond is a jealous whiner wo got jealous when Lance became more successful. Shut up Greg, I used to like you, you were my hero. Now I just wish you'd go away. Don;t get me started on Betsy what's her name. Obviously she's jealous of the success Lance has had. L'Equipe are a tabloid. The French hate Lance because he was so good (Eventhough they loved Indurain, Merckx, Lemond, Anquetil).

In summation, Lance is a cancer surviving hero who kicked its a%% and now is back kicking its a&&, so you don't have to kick its a**. Lance being an egotistical d*** and bully makes me love him even more.

So there you go people, that's what we're arguing with. The sum parts of an argument with most Lance fans......

i ride everyday thanks

 

[mr. tibbs]

You haters need to get a life. Get off your fat a&&es and go ride your bike. Your lives are so sad that you feel the need to criticise a guy who has done more for the world than any other human being, bar none. This guy changed the face of cycling, revolutionised the sport. His cadence change was something that nobody had ever thought of before, as was going on training camps. The guy trained harder than everyone else because cancer made him change his attitudes. He lost little or no weight, but look at how thin his face became. Come on guys, don't be so negative, give credit where it is due. Michele Ferrari, would it ever occur to you that he was doping other athletes who needed it more, but didn't dope Lance because he was so talented and there was no need. Lance is so anti-doping he can't even be in the peloton with a a guy who has doped (Simeoni). As if he'd put that sh** into his body after going through what he went through. We all know the reason EPO was in the sample - post cancer treatment obviously. Lemond is a jealous whiner wo got jealous when Lance became more successful. Shut up Greg, I used to like you, you were my hero. Now I just wish you'd go away. Don;t get me started on Betsy what's her name. Obviously she's jealous of the success Lance has had. L'Equipe are a tabloid. The French hate Lance because he was so good (Eventhough they loved Indurain, Merckx, Lemond, Anquetil).

In summation, Lance is a cancer surviving hero who kicked its a%% and now is back kicking its a&&, so you don't have to kick its a**. Lance being an egotistical d*** and bully makes me love him even more.

So there you go people, that's what we're arguing with. The sum parts of an argument with most Lance fans......

 

[Ozzie2]

Brilliant beyond superb Digger

Loved reading it. Very convincing you had me going for a moment. Thank you!

Maybe you missed "and as a renowned motivational author he offers inspiration to ........."

Plus "think of the children"

 

[Eva Maria]

You haters need to get a life. Get off your fat a&&es and go ride your bike. Your lives are so sad that you feel the need to criticise a guy who has done more for the world than any other human being, bar none. This guy changed the face of cycling, revolutionised the sport. His cadence change was something that nobody had ever thought of before, as was going on training camps. The guy trained harder than everyone else because cancer made him change his attitudes. He lost little or no weight, but look at how thin his face became. Come on guys, don't be so negative, give credit where it is due. Michele Ferrari, would it ever occur to you that he was doping other athletes who needed it more, but didn't dope Lance because he was so talented and there was no need. Lance is so anti-doping he can't even be in the peloton with a a guy who has doped (Simeoni). As if he'd put that sh** into his body after going through what he went through. We all know the reason EPO was in the sample - post cancer treatment obviously. Lemond is a jealous whiner wo got jealous when Lance became more successful. Shut up Greg, I used to like you, you were my hero. Now I just wish you'd go away. Don;t get me started on Betsy what's her name. Obviously she's jealous of the success Lance has had. L'Equipe are a tabloid. The French hate Lance because he was so good (Eventhough they loved Indurain, Merckx, Lemond, Anquetil).

In summation, Lance is a cancer surviving hero who kicked its a%% and now is back kicking its a&&, so you don't have to kick its a**. Lance being an egotistical d*** and bully makes me love him even more.

So there you go people, that's what we're arguing with. The sum parts of an argument with most Lance fans......

You are a Hater

 

[Martin]

Plus "think of the children"

What?? Do you mean the kids of his first wife... or.. or third..
I wouldn't be such as optimistic about this "some call him a hero"
This got me laughing...
Yea and I really do not know who should be called egoistic here... if it's me or someone who leaves wife and kids who stood beside him during the darkest days of his life...

 

[red_flanders]

...a guy who has done more for the world than any other human being, bar none.

Wow. I'm a believer now.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

You haters need to get a life. Get off your fat a&&es and go ride your bike. Your lives are so sad that you feel the need to criticise a guy who has done more for the world than any other human being, bar none. This guy changed the face of cycling, revolutionised the sport. His cadence change was something that nobody had ever thought of before, as was going on training camps. The guy trained harder than everyone else because cancer made him change his attitudes. He lost little or no weight, but look at how thin his face became. Come on guys, don't be so negative, give credit where it is due. Michele Ferrari, would it ever occur to you that he was doping other athletes who needed it more, but didn't dope Lance because he was so talented and there was no need. Lance is so anti-doping he can't even be in the peloton with a a guy who has doped (Simeoni). As if he'd put that sh** into his body after going through what he went through. We all know the reason EPO was in the sample - post cancer treatment obviously. Lemond is a jealous whiner wo got jealous when Lance became more successful. Shut up Greg, I used to like you, you were my hero. Now I just wish you'd go away. Don;t get me started on Betsy what's her name. Obviously she's jealous of the success Lance has had. L'Equipe are a tabloid. The French hate Lance because he was so good (Eventhough they loved Indurain, Merckx, Lemond, Anquetil).

In summation, Lance is a cancer surviving hero who kicked its a%% and now is back kicking its a&&, so you don't have to kick its a**. Lance being an egotistical d*** and bully makes me love him even more.

So there you go people, that's what we're arguing with. The sum parts of an argument with most Lance fans......

+1
I would also add that under no circumstances are you allowed to use logic, critical thinking, common sence or come to any judgement, unless of course it comes from an honorable source like wiklipedia or twitter.

 

[Deagol]

You haters need to get a life. Get off your fat a&&es and go ride your bike. Your lives are so sad that you feel the need to criticise a guy who has done more for the world than any other human being, bar none. This guy changed the face of cycling, revolutionised the sport. His cadence change was something that nobody had ever thought of before, as was going on training camps. The guy trained harder than everyone else because cancer made him change his attitudes. He lost little or no weight, but look at how thin his face became. Come on guys, don't be so negative, give credit where it is due. Michele Ferrari, would it ever occur to you that he was doping other athletes who needed it more, but didn't dope Lance because he was so talented and there was no need. Lance is so anti-doping he can't even be in the peloton with a a guy who has doped (Simeoni). As if he'd put that sh** into his body after going through what he went through. We all know the reason EPO was in the sample - post cancer treatment obviously. Lemond is a jealous whiner wo got jealous when Lance became more successful. Shut up Greg, I used to like you, you were my hero. Now I just wish you'd go away. Don;t get me started on Betsy what's her name. Obviously she's jealous of the success Lance has had. L'Equipe are a tabloid. The French hate Lance because he was so good (Eventhough they loved Indurain, Merckx, Lemond, Anquetil).

In summation, Lance is a cancer surviving hero who kicked its a%% and now is back kicking its a&&, so you don't have to kick its a**. Lance being an egotistical d*** and bully makes me love him even more.

So there you go people, that's what we're arguing with. The sum parts of an argument with most Lance fans......

I wonder if Lance will stop shaving his legs because he doesn’t need the extra speed and with so many jealous whiners in the peloton, he could use that leg hair as extra protection in case said jealous whiners try to crash him? http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=1747&page=3

 

[md2020]

What?? Do you mean the kids of his first wife... or.. or third..

no, the kids he didn't want to have with Sheryl Crow.

 

[Cobblestones]

Compare the 2/4/09 crit values on the two slides:

FIRST ONE

http://www.livestrong.com/lance-armstrong/blog/tag/testing/

2nd ONE

http://www.livestrong.com/lance-arm...sting-results-to-be-posted-at-livestrong-com/

The numbers Lance is posting are not the real numbers. Maybe somebody told Lance you cant go from 39 to 45 without a blood refill so he changed it to 43. lol

When you look at the variations from 12/3 to 12/18, what looks suspicious to me is that between 12/3 and 12/11, the crit value drops while the number of reticulocytes increases from 0.82 to 1.29. On 12/18, the crit value is back up to about 42%, but the reticulocytes are at 1.39, which is the highest ever. It looks to me that maybe he got some blood drawn between 12/3 and 12/11, then, the body started to replace it, and maybe he helped it a little along with microdosing, a Cera shot or whatever.

Now just before the ToC, the crit went up to 45.8% (assuming that's the correct number) with little impact on the reticulocytes (still 1.1). That, I think is definitely suspicious.

Overall I think it is a little bit dodgy. Now technically, the off score (which is Hb measured in g/L minus 60 times the square root of the percentage of reticulocytes) is never higher than the threshold of 133. So technically, it's ok. However, this limit becomes important only after a transfusion, and it can be circumvented by giving EPO-type products before and after the transfusion. I don't know whether he would have had a transfusion for the TdU. And the chart ends well before the ToC. It's hard to say whether he would have had a transfusion until the end of the chart (2/4). The high crit value of 45.8% might indicate that. Normal off-scores are between 85 and 95. An off score of 75% as on 12/11 might indicate the effect of filling a bag for later use. There is no official lower threshold for the off score which might be triggered by fillings bags. When you compare to Wiggins's published values, his off score at its lowest is about 85, except at the end of the Giro where it dipped dramatically to 65 (which again is kind of weird since at Ventoux his off score was around 85).

In general, one has to remember that the thresholds for crit (50%) and off score (133) are really pretty high. One would need to be a fool to trigger them. It is not a problem to do blood doping without coming near those thresholds.

 

[fatandfast]

The science of cycling is great and has made lots of people millions of euros/dollars. Yes blood results may be important, yes wattage output can be helpful as a part of a long term plan. To have a few clowns run every single bike racing anything through their stupid "drug filter" is at the very least irritating. Yes a Jr broke a record,Yes Contador flew up the mountain,Yes Armstrong has a strange body chemistry with his post cancer, uniball configuation. Not everybody and everything about bike racing has to do with an elevated crit level,VO2 max or EPO or anything that definable.Some people can just go fast, I know it may be hard to understand. It is true.I rode my bike with an US motocross champion that had ridden a bicycle for less than six months, not only could he sprint and climb with the best 1s and2s around but he understood his competitors and when and how to crush their spirits while battling. Part of the story goes, he rode a sub 52 min. 40k TT after doing 3 previous TT's. It is fun to bang numbers and facts back and forth, don't include names of people that have no association with drug convictions. If some of the posters are racers understand that you need to maintain some health for the sport in order for it to continue. Yes your smoking gun Lance has done wrong numbers may be true but there may be another reason other than doping.

 

[Cobblestones]

The science of cycling is great and has made lots of people millions of euros/dollars. Yes blood results may be important, yes wattage output can be helpful as a part of a long term plan. To have a few clowns run every single bike racing anything through their stupid "drug filter" is at the very least irritating. Yes a Jr broke a record,Yes Contador flew up the mountain,Yes Armstrong has a strange body chemistry with his post cancer, uniball configuation. Not everybody and everything about bike racing has to do with an elevated crit level,VO2 max or EPO or anything that definable.Some people can just go fast, I know it may be hard to understand. It is true.I rode my bike with an US motocross champion that had ridden a bicycle for less than six months, not only could he sprint and climb with the best 1s and2s around but he understood his competitors and when and how to crush their spirits while battling. Part of the story goes, he rode a sub 52 min. 40k TT after doing 3 previous TT's. It is fun to bang numbers and facts back and forth, don't include names of people that have no association with drug convictions. If some of the posters are racers understand that you need to maintain some health for the sport in order for it to continue. Yes your smoking gun Lance has done wrong numbers may be true but there may be another reason other than doping.

pointless.