Pretty Sneaky.....LOL

[Alpe d'Huez]

No - we don't sound like Lemond - we are all very jealous of his career too.

Yep. Just about any of these guys. I'd even say I'm jealous of the careers of DiLuca, Basso, Heras, and several other fallen angels.

I suspect you are one of the conspiracy theory denialists who doesn't care about global warming, the planet, or the future. The FACT is that global warming is real, just like Lance is for real.

I would think Lance would have the opposite effect on stopping global warming, considering how full of hot air he is.

Seriously, once again Krebs, Cobbles, and Escarbajo have made serious, valid points. Though the rest of this thread is amusing.

 

[53 x 11]

If you are not interested in being part of the conversation, and can only make worthless demeaning posts, perhaps you should give up and go somewhere else. Global warming is a serious issue, and to belittle the results of someone like Lance who has obviously had an impact is to belittle the fight against global warming itself.

I suspect you are one of the conspiracy theory denialists who doesn't care about global warming, the planet, or the future. The FACT is that global warming is real, just like Lance is for real.

Holy Sh*t. How the hell did you steer the thread onto this? I’m so p*ssed that I used my best graph already today. Now I'm in climate change denial! Ask yourself this question? Are you for real, do you believe the rubbish that you are writing? I'm more convinced than ever that your either mental or a Troll. If you are a troll well played because you sucked me in.

I suppose that you as a person who is so concerned about climate change do not own a car, buy vegetarian food from local sources and live in a small house consuming very little, just like your hero. I'm sure you do because you seem to know so much about the causes of global warming.

Now go and scrounge through the Olsen twins rubbish like I know you want to.

I'm over this.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Holy Sh*t. How the hell did you steer the thread onto this? I’m so p*ssed that I used my best graph already today. Now I'm in climate change denial! Ask yourself this question? Are you for real, do you believe the rubbish that you are writing? I'm more convinced than ever that your either mental or a Troll. If you are a troll well played because you sucked me in.

I suppose that you as a person who is so concerned about climate change do not own a car, buy vegetarian food from local sources and live in a small house consuming very little, just like your hero. I'm sure you do because you seem to know so much about the causes of global warming.

Now go and scrounge through the Olsen twins rubbish like I know you want to.

I'm over this.

Yes - a troll, trying to deflect away from the original thread. If someone wants to start a new thread on LA's contribution to the environment - go right ahead, as it would be interesting to know how many Subaru's he helped sell as well as Trek's.

But back to this thread - does anyone know when the original value was actually changed? Was the 'wrong' value up for a matter of days, weeks or months?

 

[auscyclefan94]

His 2-4-09 crit is listed at 45.5% on one slide and the next its 43.1%. Which was it? Which is is "supposed" to be. Because it cant be 2 diff values.

If the value is over 45% can't the uci nab him for that due to the blood passport system. Please explainit to me as i know very little about the science of doping.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I'll bet Lance has made more of a difference in the fight against global warming than Al Gore has. Think about it. Lance has motivated millions to get out and ride bicycles than would be riding had he not come back from cancer. Many of them are now regular commuters who don't drive their cars as often...or who ride a bike to the grocery store now instead of driving.

Lance has not only inspired millions of cancer patients, he has also lowered the carbon footprint of millions of regular people, including myself. Not a victory for Lance, but a big victory for mother earth which sustains us. And a victory for our children, for sure.

But some of these anti-Lance conspiracy-theorists in this forum probably don't even believe the science behind global warming, based on some of the careless attitudes and intellectual recklessness(this thread, for instance) that I've seen posted in here.

Surely you are not naive enough to think that he is clean. You must at least see that he is very secretive and a lot of evidence is against the guy. He may do a lot for cancer but is that to satisfy his conscience for all the lies he has obviously told about his innocence. You don't have to be a lance hater or lance conspriacy theorist to see through the lies.

 

[elapid]

Surely you are not naive enough to think that he is clean. You must at least see that he is very secretive and a lot of evidence is against the guy. He may do a lot for cancer but is that to satisfy his conscience for all the lies he has obviously told about his innocence. You don't have to be a lance hater or lance conspriacy theorist to see through the lies.

But this is the definition of a true lover or hater, at least in terms of Lance: they are blinded to the evidence and cannot think for themselves. They staunchly defend their position despite all evidence to the contrary and their defense is often weak by resorting to insults or the classic "never tested positive" BS argument. Then again, some are just trolls and I suspect ProTour is a bit of both.

 

[SpeedWay]

Oh hell, why not. Just keep doing what you are doing and start another thread on doping, Lemond, power, VO2, blah, blah, blah

You don't need to encourage them - they been starting the same old threads for years and never get tired of reading the same old posts over and over and over. This is normal for the pathology they suffer from. Mix up a 4:1 after a ride and enjoy the entertainment here. Sure beats warm beer, stale peanuts, and old 8mm loops!!

 

[BigBoat]

If the value is over 45% can't the uci nab him for that due to the blood passport system. Please explainit to me as i know very little about the science of doping.

Lance will claim he is "altitude training" since he's been living out west in COlorado all yr. Which is a load of CRAP! At the same altitude his crit cant go from 39 to 45 like that. They do blood work which is very consistent. With centrifuging the indicated crit reading might be a tad diff each time plus or minus 1-2%. It might naturally go to 43.

But hear's the funny thing...Taking little 200cc blood refills every now and then can easily give him a "natural" rise in crit out of competition. The WADA fans within the UCI cannot catch him with epo, or cell death (rectic death) either...As long as his packed red cells are deep frozen properly. Heck you could go from 48% after Colorado up to 57-59% with a couple of "refills" over the first week of a Tour. This takes money and knowhow, Di Luca didnt have the dough or the connections...

I wonder how "jacked" Lance will be for Leadville this year...Maybe he'll "get an oil change" with the full turbo kit package to try and beat Wiens!

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

What's alarming about DiLuca isn't that, but that his doctor (assuming it's Succitoni) made such a huge blunder. Whether this mistake came from microdosing Cera and assuming they wouldn't get caught, or from frozen blood from last year (more likely I think), just a colossal mistake for someone on such a high level in the sport.

Holy Sh*t. How the hell did you steer the thread onto this? I’m so p*ssed that I used my best graph already today.

LOL! There's always tomorrow! Keep that graph in hand!

But back to this thread - does anyone know when the original value was actually changed? Was the 'wrong' value up for a matter of days, weeks or months?

Keep in mind, Lance is supplying these numbers. Unless someone can show me otherwise, these have not been verified by the UCI, USADA, WADA, AFLD or anyone else for that matter. I think that is part of BigB's original point, when noting the contradiction in the paperwork. What is the source of this? Is the source valid? And as it's not consistent, why is it believable at all?

 

[fatandfast]

@200 cc before a race and that will take you 100 miles with an advantage? The training in Aspen angle is good but it does have s subtle effect on your readings. Is your hate of all things Lance or Colorado or winning or where you made a claim and your treatment didn't work out ? Does Lance have too many kids is that why you rant on Jr drug use? It is hard to fathom that you know that Big Boat labs knows the genetic make up of the average racer at 5000ft down to 200 ccs. If you hate or can get to the finish at Leadville I am sure LA, Tinker and DW would love to hear your views. (you wanted here not hear in your post) you better run that through the super computer at Big Boat Labs. If you really are diggin' in Lance's garbage those are not Baby Ruth bars.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

...Keep in mind, Lance is supplying these numbers. Unless someone can show me otherwise, these have not been verified by the UCI, USADA, WADA, AFLD or anyone else for that matter. I think that is part of BigB's original point, when noting the contradiction in the paperwork. What is the source of this? Is the source valid? And as it's not consistent, why is it believable at all?

Well, we know it isn't Don Catlin!

 

[BigBoat]

@200 cc before a race and that will take you 100 miles with an advantage? The training in Aspen angle is good but it does have s subtle effect on your readings. Is your hate of all things Lance or Colorado or winning or where you made a claim and your treatment didn't work out ? Does Lance have too many kids is that why you rant on Jr drug use? It is hard to fathom that you know that Big Boat labs knows the genetic make up of the average racer at 5000ft down to 200 ccs. If you hate or can get to the finish at Leadville I am sure LA, Tinker and DW would love to hear your views. (you wanted here not hear in your post) you better run that through the super computer at Big Boat Labs. If you really are diggin' in Lance's garbage those are not Baby Ruth bars.

Has nobody told you already after 60+ rants....okay LOL.

200cc of packed red cells will give about 2 point boost in crit. 4 of them out of competition in Colorado would get Lance to 47-48% crit, "naturally" with altitude training. He'd never get to 48% even at 12,000 feet. His undoped was 40!

After that he can take 800cc+ if he wants to jack all the way right before a race. Maybe to 59%!

 

[TheArbiter]

BigBoat, have you worked out yet that the testers will have the true numbers so it would be utterly pointless to make them up?

This episode doesn't reflect kindly on Armstrong critics. It makes you out to be a bunch of conspiracy loons. Very unfortunate.

 

[Anonymous]

why is this coming up now.. it was discussed months ago on here, in the media and on livestrong that there where variations in the published results for that test..

or did we just fancy rehashing some old news..

 

[Ozzie2]

Highly effective Habit # 3: Environmentally conscious with a focus on reducing landfill- They incinerate all of their rubbish and only put the ashes in the bin.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

why is this coming up now.. it was discussed months ago on here, in the media and on livestrong that there where variations in the published results for that test..

or did we just fancy rehashing some old news..

Thanks Dim - I had never spotted this story before, so it was 'new' to me.

Do you have any of the links are where else it was discussed and I can put it to bed.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Dim - I had never spotted this story before, so it was 'new' to me.

Do you have any of the links are where else it was discussed and I can put it to bed.

oh i cant even remember.. i just remember this discrepancy being discussed months ago when it first arose, i seem to remember the original chart got replaced after a few days..


if memory serves it has been showing up as 43.1 on the results since the april report, and it was questioned then how it had changed from 45.? on the original february screengrab, it was certainly discussed in april when the discrepancy first appeared.. i think BB is just having a rehash

ok.. just dug a little deaper


if you look at the page for april http://www.livestrong.com/lance-armstrong/blog/lance-armstrongs-drug-testing-results-4-7-2009/
you will see there is plenty of questioning there about why the figures had changed... it showed up then in april, was widely reported, widly queried.. it was discussed extensively on here, bigboat is fully aware that there was a discrepancy back then, i think he is just rehashing it to look like NEW news in his endless doping tirade..

its a fair question why the figures where changed (and i beleive an answer was forthcoming as to the reason, but disguising old news as new news is typical BB)

unfortunately the forum wont let me view BB;s post prior to june, which is a shame as i think it was probably he who started the discrepancy thread back in april

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

Have you worked out yet that the testers will have the true numbers so it would be utterly pointless to make them up?

Have you worked out that the testers wont have a legal right to give out specific information about an individual athlete?

Great thread tho - keep the laughs coming.

 

[tockit]

You haters need to get a life. Get off your fat a&&es and go ride your bike. Your lives are so sad that you feel the need to criticise a guy who has done more for the world than any other human being, bar none. This guy changed the face of cycling, revolutionised the sport. His cadence change was something that nobody had ever thought of before, as was going on training camps. The guy trained harder than everyone else because cancer made him change his attitudes. He lost little or no weight, but look at how thin his face became. Come on guys, don't be so negative, give credit where it is due. Michele Ferrari, would it ever occur to you that he was doping other athletes who needed it more, but didn't dope Lance because he was so talented and there was no need. Lance is so anti-doping he can't even be in the peloton with a a guy who has doped (Simeoni). As if he'd put that sh** into his body after going through what he went through. We all know the reason EPO was in the sample - post cancer treatment obviously. Lemond is a jealous whiner wo got jealous when Lance became more successful. Shut up Greg, I used to like you, you were my hero. Now I just wish you'd go away. Don;t get me started on Betsy what's her name. Obviously she's jealous of the success Lance has had. L'Equipe are a tabloid. The French hate Lance because he was so good (Eventhough they loved Indurain, Merckx, Lemond, Anquetil).

In summation, Lance is a cancer surviving hero who kicked its a%% and now is back kicking its a&&, so you don't have to kick its a**. Lance being an egotistical d*** and bully makes me love him even more.

So there you go people, that's what we're arguing with. The sum parts of an argument with most Lance fans......

Are you serious or is this an attempt at sarcasm?

 

[tockit]

Lance Pharmstrong

Good one !!!

 

[BigBoat]

Have you worked out that the testers wont have a legal right to give out specific information about an individual athlete?

Great thread tho - keep the laughs coming.

Thats true... I do not know why Lance changes his values. It looks wierd to me is all. I dont know what the whole deal on him in April concluded.

His tools (fan base) probably said rather quickly he is not doped no matter what even with a few positives, Even though he has a highest natural V02 max of 82 and he is competitive against doped riders with V02 maxes of 95-100.

These crit values listed on Livewong are 10 points + lower than what he's racing at. He was certainly at 55% for snow mass. There were a couple of good Mtn bikers in that race that were jacked on EPO or blood doping. Lance would have gotten his a$$ kicked if he was clean for that.

He probably had to run at get some IV saline and lactate ringer for his 45 minute "cool down" , or drain some blood off so he isnt going to bed with his crit jacked.

 

[TheArbiter]

Have you worked out that the testers wont have a legal right to give out specific information about an individual athlete?

They certainly can do this now if the athlete is making stuff up. Keep up.

The more intelligent Armstrong haters must despair of this thread. BigBoat can't be a popular guy with them right now.

Just look how loony his last post was where he asserts things out of thin air. What a fruitcake.

Is this what Armstrong hatred has become?

 

[Eva Maria]

oh i cant even remember.. i just remember this discrepancy being discussed months ago when it first arose, i seem to remember the original chart got replaced after a few days..


if memory serves it has been showing up as 43.1 on the results since the april report, and it was questioned then how it had changed from 45.? on the original february screengrab, it was certainly discussed in april when the discrepancy first appeared.. i think BB is just having a rehash

ok.. just dug a little deaper


if you look at the page for april http://www.livestrong.com/lance-armstrong/blog/lance-armstrongs-drug-testing-results-4-7-2009/
you will see there is plenty of questioning there about why the figures had changed... it showed up then in april, was widely reported, widly queried.. it was discussed extensively on here, bigboat is fully aware that there was a discrepancy back then, i think he is just rehashing it to look like NEW news in his endless doping tirade..

its a fair question why the figures where changed (and i beleive an answer was forthcoming as to the reason, but disguising old news as new news is typical BB)

unfortunately the forum wont let me view BB;s post prior to june, which is a shame as i think it was probably he who started the discrepancy thread back in april

The questions remain to be answered.

-Why, during a period of heavy training and racing, is Armstrong's HCT 16.5% higher then his off season baseline?

-Why was measurement that stood out the most, the HCT of 45.8, changed in later press releases? Why were other measurements changed as well?

So far no answer from Armstrong.

 

[BigBoat]

The questions remain to be answered.

-Why, during a period of heavy training and racing, is Armstrong's HCT 16.5% higher then his off season baseline?

-Why was measurement that stood out the most, the HCT of 45.8, changed in later press releases? Why were other measurements changed as well?

So far no answer from Armstrong.

Blood refills...500 cc of his frozen packed cells over a a few months...A little bit at a time to give that "natural rise" that comes from altitude. Even though he'd already been at altitude for months living in Colorado.

Whenever I became "aware" that there was a discrepency in Lances numbers is neither here nor there...Lances supporters have had a conundrum of an explanation to make. Based on what we've seen in cycling with Operation Puerto, and the very public info out there on the effects of blood doping; you'd have to be a "fruitcake" to believe Lance did not have 30 units of frozen red cells in storage before he announced his comeback.

 

[Eva Maria]

Blood refills...500 cc of his frozen packed cells over a a few months...A little bit at a time to give that "natural rise" that comes from altitude. Even though he'd already been at altitude for months living in Colorado.

Whenever I became "aware" that there was a discrepency in Lances numbers is neither here nor there...Lances supporters have had a conundrum of an explanation to make. Based on what we've seen in cycling with Operation Puerto, and the very public info out there on the effects of blood doping; you'd have to be a "fruitcake" to believe Lance did not have 30 units of frozen red cells in storage before he announced his comeback.

The funny thing it the increase did not come when he was anywhere near altitude.

When he first started the comeback he twittered every workout. When he released his numbers somebody went back and found that his off season baseline when he was not riding much was 38. He then rides TCU and goes straight to a team training camp on the beach in Cali for a 30 hour week. His Hct is at 45.8.

He 38 years old and needed to show to the rest of the team he could be a leader on the bike.....nothing like a quick refill to make sure your a "Prepared"