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Primož Roglič

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Domestiques ride at a pace that is not the same as a top rider attacking. If you think Froome was at his max working on that climb we rather strongly disagree. I didn't say they are riding "slower than they [the domestiques] can", they are riding slower than the team leader would if he were on his own attacking.

Any way you slice it, the time on that one climb, that one year, is as fast as known dopers have ridden it in the past. While the conclusions which can be drawn from one climb are VERY limited, that fact does NOT suggest things are cleaned up much. Yeah, they're not Pantani. Who is?

Regarding the UCI as applies to Roglič, they clearly and obviously have protected top riders from doping allegations and positives multiple times in the past. They are a Marketing and Promotions organization and behave as such. The passport is a marketing initiative, as it give the impression, real or not, that the UCI are combatting doping. If doping didn't hurt sponsorships, they would not care one whit. See the 1990's. They are not an anti-doping organization. There is no reason to think they have interest in prosecuting big names, and every reason to think they will do what they can to protect them.
 
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red_flanders said:
Domestiques ride at a pace that is not the same as a top rider attacking. If you think Froome was at his max working on that climb we rather strongly disagree. I didn't say they are riding "slower than they [the domestiques] can", they are riding slower than the team leader would if he were on his own attacking.

Any way you slice it, the time on that one climb, that one year, is as fast as known dopers have ridden it in the past. While the conclusions which can be drawn from one climb are VERY limited, that fact does NOT suggest things are cleaned up much. Yeah, they're not Pantani. Who is?

Regarding the UCI as applies to Roglič, they clearly and obviously have protected top riders from doping allegations and positives multiple times in the past. They are a Marketing and Promotions organization and behave as such. The passport is a marketing initiative, as it give the impression, real or not, that the UCI are combatting doping. If doping didn't hurt sponsorships, they would not care one whit. See the 1990's. They are not an anti-doping organization. There is no reason to think they have interest in prosecuting big names, and every reason to think they will do what they can to protect them.
Is Roglić really 'big enough' for the UCI and WADA and whoever else is involved at the 'top' to not bust him and suspend him? He's been redlining so far this season and his rise to where he is after actually riding a bike on a regular basis at the age of 23 is very impressive, he's obviously super talented, has won multiple times every year since he became a pro and since his first year at the world tour level just three years ago, he's had a lot of success. I don't need to list all of his accomplishments, but he's not a household name, yet.
 
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BullsFan22 said:
red_flanders said:
Domestiques ride at a pace that is not the same as a top rider attacking. If you think Froome was at his max working on that climb we rather strongly disagree. I didn't say they are riding "slower than they [the domestiques] can", they are riding slower than the team leader would if he were on his own attacking.

Any way you slice it, the time on that one climb, that one year, is as fast as known dopers have ridden it in the past. While the conclusions which can be drawn from one climb are VERY limited, that fact does NOT suggest things are cleaned up much. Yeah, they're not Pantani. Who is?

Regarding the UCI as applies to Roglič, they clearly and obviously have protected top riders from doping allegations and positives multiple times in the past. They are a Marketing and Promotions organization and behave as such. The passport is a marketing initiative, as it give the impression, real or not, that the UCI are combatting doping. If doping didn't hurt sponsorships, they would not care one whit. See the 1990's. They are not an anti-doping organization. There is no reason to think they have interest in prosecuting big names, and every reason to think they will do what they can to protect them.
Is Roglić really 'big enough' for the UCI and WADA and whoever else is involved at the 'top' to not bust him and suspend him? He's been redlining so far this season and his rise to where he is after actually riding a bike on a regular basis at the age of 23 is very impressive, he's obviously super talented, has won multiple times every year since he became a pro and since his first year at the world tour level just three years ago, he's had a lot of success. I don't need to list all of his accomplishments, but he's not a household name, yet.
Fair question. Willing to wait and see on all these questions. Seems like the next big thing to me, but we'll see. I honestly don't think they're in any way interested in stopping doping except as it pertains to landing sponsors and growing revenue.
 
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red_flanders said:
Fair question. Willing to wait and see on all these questions. Seems like the next big thing to me, but we'll see. I honestly don't think they're in any way interested in stopping doping except as it pertains to landing sponsors and growing revenue.
"Get as big as possible as quickly as possible, so you become too big to fail before anybody realizes what happened" seems to be the winning formula these days.
 
I have this feeling of almost the inevitable that Roglič is going to win this TT outright and absolutely smoke every other GC contender by minutes. I hope I wrong :eek:
 
Jan 3, 2013
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Ripper said:
I have this feeling of almost the inevitable that Roglič is going to win this TT outright and absolutely smoke every other GC contender by minutes. I hope I wrong :eek:
well...nibs within 1 min in this tt....Roglic is the new Froome thread?
 
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Breh said:
Roglic taking 1minute on Nibali and Mollema is hardly surprising.

The rest was just incredibly bad.
He pretty much smoked everyone. There's a chance he would have been a close second if Campenaerts had not had a mechanical. But he still dusted every GC contender. And he was dominant on the flat and in the climbs. In other words, if nothing changes (still an if), then he could pad his lead more and more before the finish.
 
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IzzyStradlin said:
red_flanders said:
Fair question. Willing to wait and see on all these questions. Seems like the next big thing to me, but we'll see. I honestly don't think they're in any way interested in stopping doping except as it pertains to landing sponsors and growing revenue.


"Get as big as possible as quickly as possible, so you become too big to fail before anybody realizes what happened" seems to be the winning formula these days
.
Sadly I am beginning to think this might be true.
 
I have no particular opinion on Roglic, but 1 minute gap is not extraordinary in any way imo. TTing is difficult, some people can just do it significantly better than most, whether it's flat or uphill.
 
Apr 23, 2016
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spalco said:
I have no particular opinion on Roglic, but 1 minute gap is not extraordinary in any way imo. TTing is difficult, some people can just do it significantly better than most, whether it's flat or uphill.
With Roglic, I don't see much unusual about him. He's a guy who started late in cycling, and showed promise almost from the start. He's not some guy who sucked for a lot of years then all of the sudden became invincible.
 
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Huapango said:
spalco said:
I have no particular opinion on Roglic, but 1 minute gap is not extraordinary in any way imo. TTing is difficult, some people can just do it significantly better than most, whether it's flat or uphill.
With Roglic, I don't see much unusual about him. He's a guy who started late in cycling, and showed promise almost from the start. He's not some guy who sucked for a lot of years then all of the sudden became invincible.
What's unusual is the combination of super TTs (flat and hilly), super mountain climbing, sprinting, etc.

Golden rule - when someone is great at everything, that is a massive red flag.

Again, if he starts to fall apart by week 3, then I'm perhaps less skeptical about it all. But if he continues to just keep on riding away stage by stage, then sorry, it's unusual as he!!
 
Roglic is a super TTer, sure. I don't think we've seen he's a super climber yet, like not in a best climber & best TT in the race way like Froome. Last Tour he was good but wasn't in the top tier of climbers.

At Romandie he won some sprints in reduced groups but the compeition was Thomas, Kruijswijk, Costa (building to Tour), young Gaudu and a bunch of second/third-tier guys. A guy in top form for the Giro beating them isn't much of a surprise, and it's not like they are Valverde or Martin in the finish.

Wouldn't be a surprise if he was doping but he seemed to progress logically year by year. If he starts blowing climbers away in the last week then sure..
 
Dumoulin abandoned. The top Sky (Ineos) guys not here, other contenders haven't had a great Giro (see TT), lousy weather, crashes...The only guy at the moment that's done ok besides Roglic is Nibali and everyone expects him to be good in the 2nd half of the Giro. It's a weakened field and Roglic is in very good form. I don't see anything out of the ordinary. Of course he could turn out a positive test tomorrow or at any other time he takes a test, but so could anyone else.
 
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Ripper said:
Huapango said:
spalco said:
I have no particular opinion on Roglic, but 1 minute gap is not extraordinary in any way imo. TTing is difficult, some people can just do it significantly better than most, whether it's flat or uphill.
With Roglic, I don't see much unusual about him. He's a guy who started late in cycling, and showed promise almost from the start. He's not some guy who sucked for a lot of years then all of the sudden became invincible.
What's unusual is the combination of super TTs (flat and hilly), super mountain climbing, sprinting, etc.

Golden rule - when someone is great at everything, that is a massive red flag.

Again, if he starts to fall apart by week 3, then I'm perhaps less skeptical about it all. But if he continues to just keep on riding away stage by stage, then sorry, it's unusual as he!!
Maybe you should try watching the race?

He has won 2 TT, which have given him his lead over GC rivals. He hasn't "ridden away" on the other seven stages. If you look really closely you'll see he isn't in the pink Jersey.
 
Being really good at time trialing is an interesting sub-skill. Why is a guy like Roglic, who's pretty small, so much better than, say, Lopez or Landa? A lot of it seems to come down to body positioning and the ability to put down power from that position. I'm not sure it's all due to "strength." It could be that Roglic's body shape allows him to get really aero but not impede his breathing and muscular function. (And it also takes a lot of boring faffing about to maximize all sorts of variables in the TT position)
 
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Bolder said:
Being really good at time trialing is an interesting sub-skill. Why is a guy like Roglic, who's pretty small, so much better than, say, Lopez or Landa? A lot of it seems to come down to body positioning and the ability to put down power from that position. I'm not sure it's all due to "strength." It could be that Roglic's body shape allows him to get really aero but not impede his breathing and muscular function. (And it also takes a lot of boring faffing about to maximize all sorts of variables in the TT position)
Climbing is about power and weight, TTs are about power and aerodynamics.

I'd imagine it also takes a lot of faffing about to maximise distance ski-jumping too! So possibly a way of thinking and a process that he's got used to so he's got a very effective position.
 
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spalco said:
He's clearly a better cyclist than he was a ski jumper, but yes, maybe balance and body control, whether learned or natural, could easily be an important factor.
Never actually thought about this, but you may be right. Maybe being able to produce power from a very tucked position, like just before you jump, has transfered well from ski jumping to time trialing.
 

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