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Primož Roglič

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May 21, 2019
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VWeekend21 said:
Hi all :)

F_Cance said:
i found https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/radsport-ex-skispringer-auf-dem-weg-zum-rundfahrtstar.1346.de.html?dram:article_id=449151 this german article about Roglic.
They say that his first test, while still being a ski jumper, showed a VO2 MAX of 80 and 7.14 w/kg. :lol:
Not sure what is so funny :Question: This was in 2012 and he did 22.000kms that year. 81.6 to be exact and his testing results have surely improved since then.

You are spot on - nice first post. Agreed, not funny at all it actually well explains what we are seeing. If this is a genuine article then it would seem to confirm to me that Roglic was born with a supreme aerobic engine. An 81 VO2 max does not come from training for ski jumping. He was in the wrong sport although ski jumping would be beneficial to descending courage and balance and also TT aero position as noted. He is very low and compact and not many riders can sustain that position and generate good power.

But what you might find here is that genetic aerobic talent is frowned upon. There is only one possibility and this is always doping.
 
Genetic talent isn't frowned upon, its an assumed quality for a GT contender. However, history has proven time and time again that you also need to have a physiology that can respond well to doping products.

The current AD operations in Austria only proves this more.
 
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Cookster15 said:
You are spot on - nice first post. Agreed, not funny at all it actually well explains what we are seeing. If this is a genuine article then it would seem to confirm to me that Roglic was born with a supreme aerobic engine. An 81 VO2 max does not come from training for ski jumping. He was in the wrong sport although ski jumping would be beneficial to descending courage and balance and also TT aero position as noted. He is very low and compact and not many riders can sustain that position and generate good power.

But what you might find here is that genetic aerobic talent is frowned upon. There is only one possibility and this is always doping.
Quite the opposite actually. People with actual talent tend to get far more understanding in these forums than clowns who never had any talent but turn into unstoppable forces magically later in their careers.

We have a new poster. Let's not try and poison the well as quickly as possible just because people tend to disagree with some of your takes on the topic of Roglič. 81, if true, is a nice V02 max number, but is almost exactly what Armstrong was reputedly measured at. Sure, it gets him in the game. Does it explain dominance (which we have yet to see)? No, it does not. Fair points about his position.
 
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42x16ss said:
Genetic talent isn't frowned upon, its an assumed quality for a GT contender. However, history has proven time and time again that you also need to have a physiology that can respond well to doping products.

The current AD operations in Austria only proves this more.
What kind of physiology do Froome and Wiggins have? One of them was a virtual nobody then suddenly popped up in Vuelta 2011. The other one went from being a track specialist to someone that could race a few flat stages here and there to winning the TDF.
 
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BullsFan22 said:
42x16ss said:
Genetic talent isn't frowned upon, its an assumed quality for a GT contender. However, history has proven time and time again that you also need to have a physiology that can respond well to doping products.

The current AD operations in Austria only proves this more.
What kind of physiology do Froome and Wiggins have? One of them was a virtual nobody then suddenly popped up in Vuelta 2011. The other one went from being a track specialist to someone that could race a few flat stages here and there to winning the TDF.
Physiology that allows them to drop fat mid-season very quickly (when already very skinny) with no resulting loss in power....although you need the phsychology to go along with that....as it appears to be difficult and Wiggins cracked...perhaps froome is a more 'simple' being :D
 
I buy into the theory that certain people respond better to PEDs -- it may be that they're more scientific/disciplined using and applying them. Which, I suppose, is where you get into a gray area between allowable substances like caffeine and largely -- but not always, of course -- benign processes like blood doping, and even microdosing of EPO. For instance, if there could be proven to be a dosage of EPO or even HGH that had zero long term health effects, would that be an argument for legalization of those doses?

Back to Roglic, from what I read of the CN article on Erzen, he knows where all the bodies are buried. He's not under any UCI probe right now but that could change. The part about training the prince's race horses using altitude chambers is creepy...whether Roglic is clean or not it just shows that there's zero degrees of separation for most, if not all, riders...
 
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Bolder said:
I buy into the theory that certain people respond better to PEDs -- it may be that they're more scientific/disciplined using and applying them. Which, I suppose, is where you get into a gray area between allowable substances like caffeine and largely -- but not always, of course -- benign processes like blood doping, and even microdosing of EPO. For instance, if there could be proven to be a dosage of EPO or even HGH that had zero long term health effects, would that be an argument for legalization of those doses?

Back to Roglic, from what I read of the CN article on Erzen, he knows where all the bodies are buried. He's not under any UCI probe right now but that could change. The part about training the prince's race horses using altitude chambers is creepy...whether Roglic is clean or not it just shows that there's zero degrees of separation for most, if not all, riders...
The Norwegian national cross country ski team did this a lot in the past.
 
^^on horseback? Just kidding.

I guess the dirtiest sport in the world is actually horse racing, from what I understand. In the US, basically every horse is legally on some kind of PED.
 
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Bolder said:
I buy into the theory that certain people respond better to PEDs -- it may be that they're more scientific/disciplined using and applying them. Which, I suppose, is where you get into a gray area between allowable substances like caffeine and largely -- but not always, of course -- benign processes like blood doping, and even microdosing of EPO. For instance, if there could be proven to be a dosage of EPO or even HGH that had zero long term health effects, would that be an argument for legalization of those doses?
I don't think there's much to buy into–-the fact is that people respond to all kinds of medications and drugs differently. This is well understood in the scientific literature, and I've never heard an argument as to why doping products would be any different. People will respond differently to PED's, the only question are who and how much.

BullsFan22 said:
Bolder said:
Back to Roglic, from what I read of the CN article on Erzen, he knows where all the bodies are buried. He's not under any UCI probe right now but that could change. The part about training the prince's race horses using altitude chambers is creepy...whether Roglic is clean or not it just shows that there's zero degrees of separation for most, if not all, riders...
The Norwegian national cross country ski team did this a lot in the past.
I would be careful accepting these kinds of statements from teams or athletes without clear, irrefutable evidence altitude chambers are actually being used. Too many in the past have used the "altitude tent" excuse to explain blood value changes or performance which are actually attributable to oxygen vector doping of one kind or another. When I hear that one, it always raises an eyebrow.
 
Apr 23, 2016
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Cookster15 said:
Well he's looking more human now and seems to be fading even before his crash / mechanical. This can change if he bounces back on the Mortirolo.
From my point of view, Roglic has been sandbagging for the most part. He just had a little bad luck on Sunday and didn't lose too much time given what transpired over the last few kilometers. I expect he'll push the warp-speed button on his handlebars a few times this week. Yates will do the same. It'll be interesting to see whose magic is better, Yates or Roglic.
 
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Huapango said:
Cookster15 said:
Well he's looking more human now and seems to be fading even before his crash / mechanical. This can change if he bounces back on the Mortirolo.
From my point of view, Roglic has been sandbagging for the most part. He just had a little bad luck on Sunday and didn't lose too much time given what transpired over the last few kilometers. I expect he'll push the warp-speed button on his handlebars a few times this week. Yates will do the same. It'll be interesting to see whose magic is better, Yates or Roglic.
I thought that in the first mountain stage but I don't buy it based on what I saw Sunday. He wasn't at the same level as Nibali and Carapaz, and even Yates. The larger question surrounding him is the Anderlass connection -- which also concerns Nibali. I suspect a lot more will come out after the Giro about Erzen, who, I think, has benefited from operating outside of the media glare as a Slovene.
 
Aug 18, 2016
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Bolder said:
Huapango said:
Cookster15 said:
Well he's looking more human now and seems to be fading even before his crash / mechanical. This can change if he bounces back on the Mortirolo.
From my point of view, Roglic has been sandbagging for the most part. He just had a little bad luck on Sunday and didn't lose too much time given what transpired over the last few kilometers. I expect he'll push the warp-speed button on his handlebars a few times this week. Yates will do the same. It'll be interesting to see whose magic is better, Yates or Roglic.
I thought that in the first mountain stage but I don't buy it based on what I saw Sunday. He wasn't at the same level as Nibali and Carapaz, and even Yates. The larger question surrounding him is the Anderlass connection -- which also concerns Nibali. I suspect a lot more will come out after the Giro about Erzen, who, I think, has benefited from operating outside of the media glare as a Slovene.
He lost just 40 seconds to Nibali which he could afford but it was soon after they made him ride hard to get back on after his mechanical. Can't go on that one stage with everything that happened. 40 seconds loss was pretty good considering.
 
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thehog said:
topt said:
and as soon somebody is not winning anymore the thread dies.
His form was odd. As soon as the insinuations were abound Roglic lost 20w :confused:
I noticed some cryptic comments in the race story articles. Rumours he was being targeted? But what kind of "prep" change would cause a 20W drop, seems a bit small unless he simply peaked too early?
 
Apr 18, 2016
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topt said:
and as soon somebody is not winning anymore the thread dies.
His performance was very human. He excelled in the opening week because of the ITT's where he's naturally strong. He then suffered badly in the mountains against the pure climbers, and was barely hanging on towards the end of the grand tour.

There shouldn't be any suspicion about this guy.
 
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QuickZulu said:
topt said:
and as soon somebody is not winning anymore the thread dies.
His performance was very human. He excelled in the opening week because of the ITT's where he's naturally strong. He then suffered badly in the mountains against the pure climbers, and was barely hanging on towards the end of the grand tour.

There shouldn't be any suspicion about this guy.
He raced about how was expected.

Everybody is suspicious though.
 
May 20, 2017
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QuickZulu said:
topt said:
and as soon somebody is not winning anymore the thread dies.
His performance was very human. He excelled in the opening week because of the ITT's where he's naturally strong. He then suffered badly in the mountains against the pure climbers, and was barely hanging on towards the end of the grand tour.

There shouldn't be any suspicion about this guy.
yes it was, this guy is the least suspicious of all the top riders. The clinic thread has become a joke. As soon somebody is good he must be doping. Stick to the guys that are obviously glowing
 
May 20, 2017
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veganrob said:
QuickZulu said:
topt said:
and as soon somebody is not winning anymore the thread dies.
His performance was very human. He excelled in the opening week because of the ITT's where he's naturally strong. He then suffered badly in the mountains against the pure climbers, and was barely hanging on towards the end of the grand tour.

There shouldn't be any suspicion about this guy.
He raced about how was expected.

Everybody is suspicious though.
sure but where are the "he is Ricco level doped people" from one page back.....
I am sure they will be back if he wins something in the future, just beyond dumb
 

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