Primož Roglič

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Actually rode a decent TT, bike change not included. Considering he probably dug too deep in desperation after getting the splits at the start of the climb it's very respectable to finish 5th. He was clearly completely on the rivet crossing the line. Pogacar was just different gravy today. Literally unbelievable.

Oh, and van Aert too.
 
I hate to put performance down as any measure of doping as then no one can improve but I watch Roglic after the Dauphine, r and Worlds, LBL and of course Tour and I find it hard to understand how he can still put out this power and not be tired ...it seems too good to be true
He was off-form in the Tour due to his Dauphiné crash. I know it seems hard to believe for some people, but he literally had the worst crash of his career two weeks before the Tour & eventually fell short at the end & lost the race. He isn't even crushing this Vuelta (yet), he's just consistent & is constantly smart in the race with his tactics & positioning (Sunday's rain "jerseygate" stage notwithstanding).

Even the power output on Wednesday's epic mountain finish wasn't beyond what guys like Pinot have done in their career (450 watts standard, even according to one of the Roglic haters aka Antoine Vayer). So what is it? The consistency? For years we heard all about how weird it was when guys targeted one race & then disappeared the rest of the year, now it's the reverse with Roglic & it's his consistency from August to November which = doping.

I learned a long time ago how people accuse riders of doping based on a very simple criteria, i.e. whether they're fans or not.
 
Which is obviously not the very same criteria used by people to defend riders accused of doping, right?
It's a circular discussion at that point. I only put forward my reasons "why" I believe the accusations levelled against Roglic after a stage like today's aren't exactly fair, so it's up to people to find an unbiased middle ground in their assessment.

It's very easy to fall into a mindset of "big win = doper". Rinse repeat forever.
 
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Man is slowly reaching the Valverde levels of giving no fucks.
This -- i.e. this is embarrassing to watch.
On a 1--10 level of hubris, this rates as a 10. Right up there in the pantheon of greats, including Chris Horner's win at age 113 and Genvieve Jeanson winning races solo by 20 minutes before finishing third in a mountainous men's pro race.
That's the way it seems to me. I don't know how much effect -- if any -- Covid played a role in results such as these. By that I mean a rider's ability to train; random drug tests (is it business as usual?), etc. etc., but this is off the charts crazy.
I'm sure someone with more knowledge than me will correct me if I'm wrong, but I cannot recall a GT rider drilling it in pretty much every different discipline within the race.
 
This -- i.e. this is embarrassing to watch.
On a 1--10 level of hubris, this rates as a 10. Right up there in the pantheon of greats, including Chris Horner's win at age 113 and Genvieve Jeanson winning races solo by 20 minutes before finishing third in a mountainous men's pro race.
That's the way it seems to me. I don't know how much effect -- if any -- Covid played a role in results such as these. By that I mean a rider's ability to train; random drug tests (is it business as usual?), etc. etc., but this is off the charts crazy.
I'm sure someone with more knowledge than me will correct me if I'm wrong, but I cannot recall a GT rider drilling it in pretty much every different discipline within the race.
Generally, I think the reactions here are...well I guess I don't figure he's doing anything any number of other riders aren't doing. So I can't get that worked up. Specifically, I think the Horner comparison is a bit absurd. I think Horner had 12 grandkids when he went on the Angliru. Let's wait 15 years before going Horner. It's like the Godwin's Law of cycling discussion...
 
This -- i.e. this is embarrassing to watch.
On a 1--10 level of hubris, this rates as a 10. Right up there in the pantheon of greats, including Chris Horner's win at age 113 and Genvieve Jeanson winning races solo by 20 minutes before finishing third in a mountainous men's pro race.
That's the way it seems to me. I don't know how much effect -- if any -- Covid played a role in results such as these. By that I mean a rider's ability to train; random drug tests (is it business as usual?), etc. etc., but this is off the charts crazy.
I'm sure someone with more knowledge than me will correct me if I'm wrong, but I cannot recall a GT rider drilling it in pretty much every different discipline within the race.
There is no comparison to the bolded. It's fine if you do not buy in to this, but hyperbole like this does not help. CH was quite funny and GJ, totally different level, as stated in your comment. If PR starts riding off at will and wins by 30 minutes, then you've got a like for like comparison.
 
There is no comparison to the bolded. It's fine if you do not buy in to this, but hyperbole like this does not help. CH was quite funny and GJ, totally different level, as stated in your comment. If PR starts riding off at will and wins by 30 minutes, then you've got a like for like comparison.
The problem for Rogla is that it always looks like he could ride off at will.

I'm not saying he actually can (his poker face is pretty insane), but he has that air about him when he rides and it's a very popular opinion that he could attack earlier than he does and be more decisive. Whether that's actually true or not we don't know, but given how many times he is successful when he goes it is reasonable to think there is more in the tank.

I see no reason to think he is more or less culpable than the next guy, but I did realise yesterday that if he said he was targeting a race I'd immediately place him as a contender and I don't think there's many on the calendar I'd count him out at
 
There is no comparison to the bolded. It's fine if you do not buy in to this, but hyperbole like this does not help. CH was quite funny and GJ, totally different level, as stated in your comment. If PR starts riding off at will and wins by 30 minutes, then you've got a like for like comparison.
"Hyperbole like this does not help"
Does not help what? What does that even mean? It's not like anyone here is going to provide proof positive that the guy's on the gear, nor are we influencing a jury trial. We're just shooting the schit. Edited to add that Chris Horner is not 113 years old, just in case there was any confusion.
 
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