Primož Roglič

[nogav1ca]

That would make sense, but if that was really a plan, they would probably be a bit more prepared, at least to change a water bottle.

 

[Tienus]

It was a time trial of less than one hour. Many riders departed without bottle.

The fact that he claims to have lost his powermeter is also suspiscious.

 

[classicomano]

Re:

According Thijs Zonneveld Lotto Jumbo was doing so well lately, as if they'd been eating jet fighters.
https://twitter.com/thijszonneveld/status/744198968461131776

The context being that he was talking about a flat stage in the Ster ZLM Tour wich he was riding in as well, and suffering as usual.

 

[Rob27172]

I don't know about ski jumping in depth but as a second tier athlete who wants to break into the big time he could well have been on steroids and other muscle enhancers anyway prior to the cycling career
if you think about it cycling and ski jumping are similar in one respect - power to weight
power of the quads and calves to launch off the ramp and low weight to fly further is key in ski jumping
so a good grasp of the use of GW1516 and whether or not he is a good responder to these type of drugs would be crucial to a pro team if they were to sign him
Just a thought
not saying he is dirty or not but worth considering the cross over effects

 

[nogav1ca]

Re:

It was a time trial of less than one hour. Many riders departed without bottle.

The fact that he claims to have lost his powermeter is also suspiscious.

Went quickly through a gallery on CN from the stage and most of riders had a bottle. But yes, it is possible to ride a TT without one.

About powermeter, actually bike computer, he lost it. Look at this picture and you will see he doesn't have one. Only a holder is left. If you look at this activity from Gesink, you will see how it looks like with powermeter on. It should take all the space between two bars.

BTW, I'm not saying that there isn't any chance that he used a motor. Just with the evidence we have, I think it's just a case of sensationalism journalism.
I don't know if they crashed or sth. similar, but if they already had motors in Strade Bianche, why were they so bad?

 

[nogav1ca]

Re:

I don't know about ski jumping in depth but as a second tier athlete who wants to break into the big time he could well have been on steroids and other muscle enhancers anyway prior to the cycling career
if you think about it cycling and ski jumping are similar in one respect - power to weight
power of the quads and calves to launch off the ramp and low weight to fly further is key in ski jumping
so a good grasp of the use of GW1516 and whether or not he is a good responder to these type of drugs would be crucial to a pro team if they were to sign him
Just a thought
not saying he is dirty or not but worth considering the cross over effects

I know your point was different, but I want to add my 2 cents here. Muscles that are important for cycling and ski jumping differ. In cycling you need mostly slow twitch muscles, while in the latter you need fast twitch muscles. Ski jumpers are really allowed or at least advised to do endurance sports like cycling, so they don't gain useless mass.

And about GW1516, I think/hope it's not really that prevalent, at least at elite level, where they can afford safer drugs.

 

[kielbasa]

Re:

I don't know about ski jumping in depth but as a second tier athlete who wants to break into the big time he could well have been on steroids and other muscle enhancers anyway prior to the cycling career
if you think about it cycling and ski jumping are similar in one respect - power to weight
power of the quads and calves to launch off the ramp and low weight to fly further is key in ski jumping
so a good grasp of the use of GW1516 and whether or not he is a good responder to these type of drugs would be crucial to a pro team if they were to sign him
Just a thought
not saying he is dirty or not but worth considering the cross over effects

Ski jumping does not require sustainable power like that needed for time-trialing. Strength to weight is of importance, but I suspect not as much as the proper technique. Having said that , we don't exactly hear of a lot ski jumpers transitioning into endurance sports, so it must not be a good fit.

 

[Tienus]

About powermeter, actually bike computer, he lost it. Look at this picture and you will see he doesn't have one. Only a holder is left. If you look at this activity from Gesink, you will see how it looks like with powermeter on. It should take all the space between two bars.

I know he departed with a computer and finished without one, I think that is suspiscious. Now with these accusations he cannot publicise the data which is either unfortunate or convenient for him.

 

[GJB123]

In the Dutch newspapers it is now reported that Lotto-Jumbo are officially refuting the supposed evidence from the Strade Bianchi video. They claim it cannot have been a hub motor (as is claimed?), because Roglic at that point in time was using a rear wheel supplied by the neutral car. If that is in fact correct then they seem to have a very valid point and the journalist haven't been doing their homework. I would even go a bit further than that, if they are correct than the journalists have been very sloppy and should not have been naming riders without having done a proper check and applying the adversarial principle.

 

[sniper]

thanks for that.

sounds like UCI came to the rescue here.
"you guys feed this to the press, and we'll back it up if necessary"

 

[GJB123]

Re:

thanks for that.

sounds like UCI came to the rescue here.
"you guys feed this to the press, and we'll back it up if necessary"

You are in conspiracy mode again, I notice. I am sure the pictures themselves will confirm whether the team's claim is correct or not. No UCI needed.

 

[Tienus]

http://www.corriere.it/methode_image/2016/06/20/Sport/Foto%20Sport%20-%20Trattate/RoglicStradeBianchetotal-kVJI-U431901130365823mL-1224x916@Corriere-Web-Sezioni.jpg?v=2016061923

It looks similar to the front wheel and to the Dura Ace wheels that the team is using.
Why would you take a wheel from the neutral car if you are in the peloton?

 

[nogav1ca]

Who was neutral service provider? If it was Shimano, then it wouldn't be surprising both wheels are similar. Although to me it looks like front wheel has a bit more white than rear. But it's hard to conclude anything from this picture.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

thanks for that.

sounds like UCI came to the rescue here.
"you guys feed this to the press, and we'll back it up if necessary"

You are in conspiracy mode again, I notice. I am sure the pictures themselves will confirm whether the team's claim is correct or not. No UCI needed.

It is not like the federations are there to ensure fair play or prevent cheating! Perish the thought!

 

[pastronef]

Re:

http://www.corriere.it/methode_image/2016/06/20/Sport/Foto%20Sport%20-%20Trattate/RoglicStradeBianchetotal-kVJI-U431901130365823mL-1224x916@Corriere-Web-Sezioni.jpg?v=2016061923

It looks similar to the front wheel and to the Dura Ace wheels that the team is using.
Why would you take a wheel from the neutral car if you are in the peloton?

because riders are scattered along the dirt sectors and team car is not always near.

here´s some vittoria service pic http://www.vittoria.com/news/strade-bianchi-2016/
the tyres are the same as LottoNL (vittoria sponsored)
you can see in Roglic pic the stickers are not the same as Shimano.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

thanks for that.

sounds like UCI came to the rescue here.
"you guys feed this to the press, and we'll back it up if necessary"

You are in conspiracy mode again, I notice. I am sure the pictures themselves will confirm whether the team's claim is correct or not. No UCI needed.

Not sure where you've lived in the past two decades, but UCI helping to cover up cheating is not a conspiracy. It's the real world.

Ironically you're the one in conspiracy mode impying the journo's were sloppy throwing unjustified accusations at poor cyclists.

 

[pastronef]

Re:

Who was neutral service provider? If it was Shimano, then it wouldn't be surprising both wheels are similar. Although to me it looks like front wheel has a bit more white than rear. But it's hard to conclude anything from this picture.

it was Vittoria. and you are right, the 2 wheels have different stickers

stick that to the French journos

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

because riders are scattered along the dirt sectors and team car is not always near.

here´s some vittoria service pic http://www.vittoria.com/news/strade-bianchi-2016/
the tyres are the same as LottoNL (vittoria sponsored)
you can see in Roglic pic the stickers are not the same as Shimano.

interesting.

correct me if wrong, but to me that sounds like something that sets the door wide open for motor fraud.

 

[pastronef]

Re: Re:

because riders are scattered along the dirt sectors and team car is not always near.

here´s some vittoria service pic http://www.vittoria.com/news/strade-bianchi-2016/
the tyres are the same as LottoNL (vittoria sponsored)
you can see in Roglic pic the stickers are not the same as Shimano.

interesting.

correct me if wrong, but to me that sounds like something that sets the door wide open for motor fraud.

Vittoria are the tyre sponsor
Shimano wheels sponsor for LottoNL. Shimano and Vittoria are rival on the market

so you say someone from Vittoria has a motor hub wheel during strade bianche and gives the wheel to Roglic to try it....

long shot

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

...

Vittoria are the tyre sponsor
Shimano wheels sponsor for LottoNL. Shimano and Vittoria are rival on the market

so you say someone from Vittoria has a motor hub wheel during strade bianche and gives the wheel to Roglic to try it....

long shot

thanks for expanding. Could be a longshot indeed. But imo at this point you/we should keep all options open. French television provided what they think is photographic evidence.
I assume they think it's evidence because other wheels looked different (i.e. weren't glowing).

I don't for a second buy into Lotto's official rebuttal. I bet they also said the accusations are 'laughable', or 'ridiculous', or some such sort.
Clearly it's going to take a while longer before people take motorization seriously. Meanwhile UCI still haven't developed any kind of comprehensive testing protocol, meaning the fans can't trust what they see is real. It's worse than doping.

 

[GJB123]

You are assuming a lot. Assumption is the mother of all fnck-up's. Furthermore if it wasn't their own wheel, there is nothing to buy here.

 

[GJB123]

Re: Re:

thanks for that.

sounds like UCI came to the rescue here.
"you guys feed this to the press, and we'll back it up if necessary"

You are in conspiracy mode again, I notice. I am sure the pictures themselves will confirm whether the team's claim is correct or not. No UCI needed.

Not sure where you've lived in the past two decades, but UCI helping to cover up cheating is not a conspiracy. It's the real world.

Ironically you're the one in conspiracy mode impying the journo's were sloppy throwing unjustified accusations at poor cyclists.

It is conspiracy mode if you immediately assume that the UCI is involved in a cover-up here without any factual basis.

And how is it a conspiracy if I conclude that the journo's did a sloppy job if they didn't check the origin of the rear wheel and did not apply a proper adversial policy here. That is basic journalisten that they teach 1st year journalism students.

 

[sniper]

Re:

if it wasn't their own wheel, there is nothing to buy here.

So you're assuming (a) it wasn't their own wheel, and (b) if it wasn't their own wheel then there couldn't be a motor.

You are assuming a lot. Assumption is the mother of all fnck-up's.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

It is conspiracy mode if you immediately assume that the UCI is involved in a cover-up here without any factual basis.

if you followed the motorization threads and the history of cycling, you'd realize there is no factual basis to assume the UCI would *not* be involved in a cover up here. They don't want a Primoz motor scandal, believe me.

 

[Tienus]

In the Lotto race report there is mention of a crash (Battaglin) and three flat tires (Roosen, Teunissen, Van Asbroeck). No mention of Roglic which does not mean he did not have one but I'm sure they would have loved to use that excuse to.
http://www.teamlottojumbo.nl/wielrennen/valpartij-en-lekke-banden-tekenen-strade-bianchi-voor-team-lottonljumbo

Both Strade Bianchi and the Giro are organised by RCS sport. So is Tirreno-Adriatico which had an interesting incident during the time trial. Tom Leezer from Lotto-Jumbo managed to get the fifth fastest time out of nowhere.
You can see the result here at 1:21:44
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDgdcMgxmXY
Lotto-Jumbo called the organisation to tell them they did not time him correctly and 50 seconds was added to his time. This could have been a test run.
http://www.wielerupdate.nl/wielernieuws/35226/lottonl-jumbo-trekt-aan-bel-na-te-goede-uitslag-leezer/
In the article Roglic is also mentioned as being in good shape but at this stage he is still considered a climber.