Puerto bags to be handed over

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Saiz went under oath and said Alberto never used transfusions in that period. I sense that he was doping with lower key drugs at that time.

I don't think anything of what Saiz said was true, so there.

Good for you, I remember you telling me we couldn't trust Landis when he first came clean, thus I don't put a lot of weight in what you think.

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

Saiz went under oath and said Alberto never used transfusions in that period. I sense that he was doping with lower key drugs at that time.

I don't think anything of what Saiz said was true, so there.

Good for you, I remember you telling me we couldn't trust Landis when he first came clean, thus I don't put a lot of weight in what you think.

Now you're just making *** up.

 

[Mr.38%]

Re: Re:

Thijs Zonneveld on twitter is breaking that 35 Puerto bags have been identified by the Lausanne lab.
It allegedly concerns 23 cyclists and 12 t&f athletes.
So again no soccer or tennis players.

Names to be made public soon. But I'm not sure if it concerns 'new' names.

edit: Thijs expects only a handful of new names.

J A Flecha
Canc
F Schleck
any others?

Vayer agrees, plot thickens.

https://twitter.com/festinaboy/status/824529906801541123
https://twitter.com/festinaboy/status/824343813892296712

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Saiz went under oath and said Alberto never used transfusions in that period. I sense that he was doping with lower key drugs at that time.

I don't think anything of what Saiz said was true, so there.

Good for you, I remember you telling me we couldn't trust Landis when he first came clean, thus I don't put a lot of weight in what you think.

Now you're just making **** up.

This seems to be creeping into the clinic more and more. Accuse someone of something with nothing to back it up. Pretty sure that's against the rules here.

 

[Netserk]

So how likely do we find it that Contador didn't use bags before 2007? Would micro-dosing EPO (+T or HGH or whatever) be enough for 1 week races, if he started them on a high level? Do we even know how much (or an example of) bags were used outside of GTs before Puerto?

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

So how likely do we find it that Contador didn't use bags before 2007? Would micro-dosing EPO (+T or HGH or whatever) be enough for 1 week races, if he started them on a high level? Do we even know how much (or an example of) bags were used outside of GTs before Puerto?

Hamilton said that he used a Blood Bag right before his Liege win in 2003. If you look through the lists of monument winners I doubt that he was the only one.

 

[BullsFan22]

In case anyone cares:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/spanish-court-stops-identification-of-operacion-puerto-athletes/


Not surprised by this. I had a bit of hope last year, at the 10 year mark of the case, but the Spanish authorities seem to be very protective of their big sports stars, to put it mildly.

 

[Irondan]

In case anyone cares:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/spanish-court-stops-identification-of-operacion-puerto-athletes/


Not surprised by this. I had a bit of hope last year, at the 10 year mark of the case, but the Spanish authorities seem to be very protective of their big sports stars, to put it mildly.

Not a surprise at all considering we're over a decade into this matter.

The athletes that have not been named yet can rest easy, the Spanish government is on the case...

 

[BullsFan22]

In case anyone cares:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/spanish-court-stops-identification-of-operacion-puerto-athletes/


Not surprised by this. I had a bit of hope last year, at the 10 year mark of the case, but the Spanish authorities seem to be very protective of their big sports stars, to put it mildly.

Not a surprise at all considering we're over a decade into this matter.

The athletes that have not been named yet can rest easy, the Spanish government is on the case...

I wonder how much cyclists that were involved with Fuentes, a Jacksche, for example, know about the non-cyclists that Fuentes worked with. I am assuming little, but maybe one day an athlete or two speaks out about this.

One question I have is, the 211 blood bags, is one blood bag for each athlete? If so, 211 athletes?? That's a massive undertaking for a doctor and whoever his cohorts were at the time. No matter how many athletes were involved in blood doping via Fuentes, the personal doctors, team doctors, physicians...etc...all must have been involved. No wonder the authorities threw this out altogether. Had they tried to piece it one by one, it would have been very difficult. Or did they piece it one by one? Maybe the cyclists were sacrificed to save the tennis and football players? And what about other methods of doping? What about pills, growth hormones, steroids, EPO(?)...surely it's not just blood bags.

 

[Irondan]

In case anyone cares:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/spanish-court-stops-identification-of-operacion-puerto-athletes/


Not surprised by this. I had a bit of hope last year, at the 10 year mark of the case, but the Spanish authorities seem to be very protective of their big sports stars, to put it mildly.

Not a surprise at all considering we're over a decade into this matter.

The athletes that have not been named yet can rest easy, the Spanish government is on the case...

I wonder how much cyclists that were involved with Fuentes, a Jacksche, for example, know about the non-cyclists that Fuentes worked with. I am assuming little, but maybe one day an athlete or two speaks out about this.

One question I have is, the 211 blood bags, is one blood bag for each athlete? If so, 211 athletes?? That's a massive undertaking for a doctor and whoever his cohorts were at the time. No matter how many athletes were involved in blood doping via Fuentes, the personal doctors, team doctors, physicians...etc...all must have been involved. No wonder the authorities threw this out altogether. Had they tried to piece it one by one, it would have been very difficult. Or did they piece it one by one? Maybe the cyclists were sacrificed to save the tennis and football players? And what about other methods of doping? What about pills, growth hormones, steroids, EPO(?)...surely it's not just blood bags.

I'm guessing that the athletes knew little about each other, except for maybe passing each other on the walk into their appointments.

I think it's 211 individual athletes but I don't know for certain.

 

[Aragon]

I'm guessing that the athletes knew little about each other, except for maybe passing each other on the walk into their appointments.

I think it's 211 individual athletes but I don't know for certain.

I think it is well established that the 211 refers to the amount of BBs and that there were multiple blood bags related to same athlete, for instance Jan Ullrich had total of nine stored in the facilities of the Spaniard.

Here is a quote from old CN article:

Of the 36 athletes, some had both blood bags and plasma. El País claims that Francisco Mancebo - codenamed Porras or Goku - had no fewer than 20 in total in Fuentes’ system and another six riders had more than 10. The paper divides up the total of 36 clients into 12 athletes, 23 cyclists and one unidentified sportsman or woman. In total 17 clients are identified, another 19 remain unclear.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report-all-operacion-puerto-blood-bags-located/

On the first point, I think that Jörg Jaksche claimed that the collaboration was done on one-to-one basis and Tyler Hamilton was stunned when he realized the magnitude of his clients. On the other hand, Hamilton insists in his autobiography that Fuentes was really bad at keeping secrets and revealed many names to him.

In any case, it seems that the impact of the Spaniard was one of the worst kept secrets even before Operación Puerto in 2006, and one well-known journalist could write the following in 2004 when Santi Pérez was busted for homologous blood transfusion:

During the Vuelta, in the heavy hours that precede the end of the stages, the stories and gossips fly. One of those, not denied by any of the participants, says that it is useless to take part into the crowd to predict the winners of stages and general, that only one person knows for sure: Eufemiano Fuentes. The myth. The Canary doctor who discovered years ago the philosopher's stone of super performance and who continues with his secret. Six of the top ten of the general are from Eufemiano, says one. What six, eight, says another. And so on...

The Myth. Exactly how one Italian doctor was also described by people in the "in" already in mid-1990s.

http://elpais.com/diario/2004/11/08/deportes/1099868430_850215.html

 

[robow7]

If just but Nadal were to be exposed, I understand why Spain would never release those names at any cost.

 

[yaco]

If just but Nadal were to be exposed, I understand why Spain would never release those names at any cost.

The names should never be publically released - No doping charges have been issued - We need to repsectthe privacy of the doctor/patient relationship.

 

[GuyIncognito]

If just but Nadal were to be exposed, I understand why Spain would never release those names at any cost.

The names should never be publically released - No doping charges have been issued - We need to repsectthe privacy of the doctor/patient relationship.

Absolutely. We must respect the relationship between this gynecologist and his male patients.

 

[glassmoon]

that just screams Nadal/LaLiga.
any indications the US/JAM sprinters are involved? or their programs/docs are outside Europe.

 

[yaco]

Fuentes wants the Puerto blood bags to be returned to him, and for the list of real identities of the cyclists to be destroyed:

https://elpais.com/deportes/2017/09/27/actualidad/1506532087_709391.html

Fuentes' lawyer:
"The blood bags must be interpreted as the product of a professional relationship between Dr. Fuentes and the athletes who relied on his services..."

This is 100% correct - The blood bags should have already been destroyed.