- Aug 13, 2010
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You have yet to answer mine.Digger said:Do you actually have a reply to my question
Put a question mark against your question next time and perhaps you will have more luck next time.
You have yet to answer mine.Digger said:Do you actually have a reply to my question
Digger said:Do people seriously think there is a comparable talent pool between track cycling and road?
TailWindHome said:Or trying to get round the bizarre team eligibility rules.
http://inrng.com/2012/07/olympics-sprint-farce/
DirtyWorks said:Looking at it from the UCI's perspective, it's a development pool for the road show. The TdF winner Rudy Altig was a dominating track racer first. Mountain biking is definitely the same way.
So, as much as it's almost a rhetorical question, "who rides track that's any good on the road?" It's not quite that simple. Road talent passes through the niche.
MartinVicker's post about various people caring about Wiggo medaling is as I see it. It matters!
TdF = Tour de Francfort ??DirtyWorks said:Looking at it from the UCI's perspective, it's a development pool for the road show. The TdF winner Rudy Altig was a dominating track racer first. Mountain biking is definitely the same way.
So, as much as it's almost a rhetorical question, "who rides track that's any good on the road?" It's not quite that simple. Road talent passes through the niche.
MartinVicker's post about various people caring about Wiggo medaling is as I see it. It matters!
lllludo said:TdF = Tour de Francfort ??
Altig once won the Vuelta but it was not the same race as today. Not so many high climbs because not so many asphalted mountain road in Franco's spain.
To succeed on track you need track skills + watts and weight does not matter.
To succeed on the road in GT you need road skills + watts + low weight.
So not exactly the same characteristics.
Once in a while you find a "diamond" on track that can become a GT winner but before British Cycling it was rare (Hinault was a good track rider when young).
In the 70s a big guy like Moser was a great pursuiter but always handicapped big his big frame in the mountains... he tried to loose weight but lost some muscles and power doing so.
Then he met Conconi, he improved dramatically and won the Giro.
4 pursuit world champions went on to win a GT: Altig, Moser, Wiggo (of course) ... and Coppi !
So Wiggo and Coppi same type of athletes ?
lllludo said:So Wiggo and Coppi same type of athletes ?
Digger said:Do people seriously think there is a comparable talent pool between track cycling and road?
Digger said:Not about what 'he' wrote...I see it time and again the Wiggins defenders use track as a way of saying he didn't come out of nowhere...and I ask again does anyone seriously think both talents pools are similar..
A pretty good analasys for everyone not from 'the Isles'. Stupid Europeans, know nothing...lllludo said:TdF = Tour de Francfort ??
Altig once won the Vuelta but it was not the same race as today. Not so many high climbs because not so many asphalted mountain road in Franco's spain.
To succeed on track you need track skills + watts and weight does not matter.
To succeed on the road in GT you need road skills + watts + low weight.
So not exactly the same characteristics.
Once in a while you find a "diamond" on track that can become a GT winner but before British Cycling it was rare (Hinault was a good track rider when young).
In the 70s a big guy like Moser was a great pursuiter but always handicapped big his big frame in the mountains... he tried to loose weight but lost some muscles and power doing so.
Then he met Conconi, he improved dramatically and won the Giro.
4 pursuit world champions went on to win a GT: Altig, Moser, Wiggo (of course) ... and Coppi !
So Wiggo and Coppi same type of athletes ?
lllludo said:TdF = Tour de Francfort ??
Altig once won the Vuelta but it was not the same race as today. Not so many high climbs because not so many asphalted mountain road in Franco's spain.
To succeed on track you need track skills + watts and weight does not matter.
To succeed on the road in GT you need road skills + watts + low weight.
So not exactly the same characteristics.
Once in a while you find a "diamond" on track that can become a GT winner but before British Cycling it was rare (Hinault was a good track rider when young).
In the 70s a big guy like Moser was a great pursuiter but always handicapped big his big frame in the mountains... he tried to loose weight but lost some muscles and power doing so.
Then he met Conconi, he improved dramatically and won the Giro.
4 pursuit world champions went on to win a GT: Altig, Moser, Wiggo (of course) ... and Coppi !
So Wiggo and Coppi same type of athletes ?
BYOP88 said:Cool!!! We're having the an individual pursuit guy can win a GT while being clean stuff again. It's good to have the 'greatest hits' set every once in a while.
Fearless Greg Lemond said:A pretty good analasys for everyone not from 'the Isles'. Stupid Europeans, know nothing...
All those parcors were friendly to Lance as well, so I don't see why that should be a variable. Besides, Wiggins dropped his opponents in the mountains anyway. The only think that made that Tour favourable to him was 1 tt too much. Take away 1 tt from the gc and wiggins still wins that TDF comfortably.martinvickers said:But people treat Wiggins as if got to explain Lance-esque achievements on the road, unbelivable domination. He's a highly accomplished track cyclist who got dragged to one TdF on a reasonably friendly Parcours with his only real rival helping him do it.
If what you are saying is that Wiggins didn't win 7 tdfs like Lance did, well yeah, Wiggins only started being a beast at 32 years of age. 1 can use that exact same argument to say Horner isn't that suspicious because he's only won 1 gt - and it wasn't even the tdf.as if got to explain Lance-esque achievements on the road, unbelivable domination.
The Hitch said:So to your point about whether Wiggins acheived "Lance-esque achievements on the road, unbelivable domination", he far surpassed them.
Did you check the ITT amount in 2006 and 2007 as well?Ventoux Boar said:TdF ITT Distances (approx, km)
2011 - 42
2012 - 95
2013 - 65
2014 - 54
Which year is best suited to a TT specialist?
I can't be bothered to do the same for climbing km.
Your CQ analysis would have been interesting if you'd included some riders Wiggins beat in 2012. Just in case there wasn't anybody on a good season in the same race. Just a thought.
lllludo said:TdF = Tour de Francfort ??
Altig once won the Vuelta but it was not the same race as today. Not so many high climbs because not so many asphalted mountain road in Franco's spain.
To succeed on track you need track skills + watts and weight does not matter.
To succeed on the road in GT you need road skills + watts + low weight.
So not exactly the same characteristics.
Once in a while you find a "diamond" on track that can become a GT winner but before British Cycling it was rare (Hinault was a good track rider when young).
In the 70s a big guy like Moser was a great pursuiter but always handicapped big his big frame in the mountains... he tried to loose weight but lost some muscles and power doing so.
Then he met Conconi, he improved dramatically and won the Giro.
4 pursuit world champions went on to win a GT: Altig, Moser, Wiggo (of course) ... and Coppi !
So Wiggo and Coppi same type of athletes ?
Ventoux Boar said:TdF ITT Distances (approx, km)
2011 - 42
2012 - 95
2013 - 65
2014 - 54
Which year is best suited to a TT specialist?
I can't be bothered to do the same for climbing km.
Your CQ analysis would have been interesting if you'd included some riders Wiggins beat in 2012. Just in case there wasn't anybody on a good season in the same race. Just a thought.
42x16ss said:Now for a few IP WC's and WR holders who turned pro on the road and came nowhere near winning a GT:
Chris Boardman...
Wiggins had 57 race days in 2012. That's quite low.Justinr said:Surely for a more valid comparision you should look at the other races in those years. Dauphine, etc? to see whether they were flatter, etc.
I think its widely acknowledged that when the 2012 route was announced people saw it as BWs best chance in years due to the relatively flat route and high levels of TT compared with the recent years.
I'm not sure its valid to make the BW / LA comparison since BW rode many more races (someone will no doubt prove me wrong now...) and therefore would have more chance of picking up CQ points.
And that was unlucky for him because???Wallace and Gromit said:Just an observation but Boardman was really unlucky timing-wise (as indeed were many of his contemporaries). He started his pro career ('93) just as EPO use was becoming prevelant throughout the peloton and retired (2000) just before EPO testing was introduced.
gooner said:With the exception of 2003(still my favourite Tour) Lance dominated all before him in those other Tours. There was one or two hiccups like Botero beating him in the MTT or the Morzine stage in 2000 but Wiggins's domination doesn't come anywhere near him.