Puncheur

[Pentacycle]

Gilbert, Sagan and GVA are the best. They're the masters of anaerobic efforts.

 

[karlboss]

I'd go with Moreno over Rodriguez over Betancur, over Henao, over Martin from last year. I'll qualify this by saying this is essentially my list of who would win FW if they were positioned well and timed their sprint correctly.
From there as the road flattens out, in order we add Valverde, Kwiatkowski, Gerrans, and Sagan. At the moment I really don't know where I put Gilbert since 2011 he's been marked out a lot and has been forced to work much earlier than he normally would have, but doesn't have 2011 form in which case he'd shrug it off and win anyway. However 2012 worlds obviously unstoppable.
In this yes I'd take Gesink over Uran, Uran's not displayed any kick that I can remember.
If you change how you choose puncheur to be best rider over lumps all day, then you get a similar but different set of riders, certainly adding in Nibali, Hesjedal, Kreuziger etc.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Gesink over Uran isn't that weird considering Gesinks double emilia win, performances in montreal, sprint win in quebec, etc.
Gesink can be punchier than many better names when all stars align. He's just so irregular as ****

 

[BigMac]

To be honest, even if you are going by a mixture of present and past (since clearly Gilbert can't possibly win on present alone), Rebellin probably beats him

Yes, definetely a mixture of present and past, but no one really expects anything punchy from Rebellin at 42 whereas Gilbert can and will perform.

The way Phil rides up the Cauberg can't be matched by any other. So my logic is as follows. It should be more difficult for Purito to match Gilbert on a <10% hill (I know, Amstel '11 but still) than it is for Gilbert to match Purito on a 20% one.

 

[Roderick]

To be honest, even if you are going by a mixture of present and past (since clearly Gilbert can't possibly win on present alone), Rebellin probably beats him

>15% agree
<8% disagree

 

[Afrank]

Purito without a doubt, then Moreno, Valverde, Betancur not far back (and will improve over time I think).

Ulissi will first need to prove himself vs. some higher quality competition, we'll see what he does in Ardennes later this year.

Gilbert, after the last couple years, he's an enigma. Another rider that will need to prove himself in the Ardennes this year.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

In the future?

Purito doesn't have much left at top, there will be new pretender taking his crown.

And for now I am saying Daniel Martin.

Betancur or Henao next in line.

P.S. Why is Martin not on the list ???

P.S.2. Right now? Purito of course.

To clarify.
I have a couple of riders ahead of Bentacur today, but if he improves he could take the top spot.

 

[Fzotrlool]

Puncheur = uphill sprinter? Or is it more complex than that?

You could argue that a good puncheurer is someone who also is able to obtain mountain points or attack on small steep sections to get a gap to the peloton.

A guy like Rodriguez used his explosiveness several times in the Worlds last year.

Although it might be a muddy definition since it will make the likes of Anton. Nibali and Horner great puncheurs.

 

[greenedge]

I voted other- Dan Martin.

 

[Jancouver]

Purito got 50% of all votes? Are you kidding me?
Sure, he is the king of the steep last Km but other than that he is not exactly an attacker/puncher. He likes to follow wheels and use his size on the last steep section.

I really dont recall Purito doing something that Sagan did yesterday (attacking solo 20km to go) or Valverde did today attacking 35km to go.

"Puncher" is too broad of a term and there are different type of punchers and some are only "seasonal" such as Cancellara dropping the hammer on cobbles in Roubaix or steep short climbs in RVV.

Guys like Nibali or Sagan are always attacking on any terrain even on descents and they should be considered current top "Punchers". Flowerboy is also flying these days and is winning just about every race and definitely is making the races more exciting.

I think Gilbert was the best puncher in 2011 and since there wasnt anybody dominating the same way he was because the competition is tougher.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Puncheur = uphill sprinter? Or is it more complex than that?

You could argue that a good puncheurer is someone who also is able to obtain mountain points or attack on small steep sections to get a gap to the peloton.

A guy like Rodriguez used his explosiveness several times in the Worlds last year.

Although it might be a muddy definition since it will make the likes of Anton. Nibali and Horner great puncheurs.

OP's definition of the poll:

1km @ 20%?
1km @ 15%?
1km @ 10%?

Based on above, what sort of finish can be designed to most suit a specific rider for a victory? eg. Moreno, Sanchez, Dan Martin, etc.

note: I agree with you, puncheur spans wider than just uphill finish.

 

[Arredondo]

Purito got 50% of all votes? Are you kidding me?
Sure, he is the king of the steep last Km but other than that he is not exactly an attacker/puncher. He likes to follow wheels and use his size on the last steep section.

I really dont recall Purito doing something that Sagan did yesterday (attacking solo 20km to go) or Valverde did today attacking 35km to go.

"Puncher" is too broad of a term and there are different type of punchers and some are only "seasonal" such as Cancellara dropping the hammer on cobbles in Roubaix or steep short climbs in RVV.

Guys like Nibali or Sagan are always attacking on any terrain even on descents and they should be considered current top "Punchers". Flowerboy is also flying these days and is winning just about every race and definitely is making the races more exciting.

I think Gilbert was the best puncher in 2011 and since there wasnt anybody dominating the same way he was because the competition is tougher.

Purito did a 24-km solo attack in Pais Vasco in 2010, on a steep climb, and eventually survives in the descents, flats and some short climbs.

Purito finished 2nd on the Cauberg, and 2nd at Malaga...

And since when is 'a puncheur' the same as a attacker?

I agree that if you define puncheur as someone who's also the best at 5% climbs, then you can't call Purito the best puncheur.

 

[Ferminal]

I agree that if you define puncheur as someone who's also the best at 5% climbs, then you can't call Purito the best puncheur.

Well he's not the "best", but even prime Gilbert wasn't best at everything 5%-15%. Best @ 5% is actually an impossible question these days, 2010-2011 it was clearly Gilbert but could be any of about six in this poll + Moreno.

http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=22148
http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=20554

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

Purito got 50% of all votes? Are you kidding me?
Sure, he is the king of the steep last Km but other than that he is not exactly an attacker/puncher. He likes to follow wheels and use his size on the last steep section.

I really dont recall Purito doing something that Sagan did yesterday (attacking solo 20km to go) or Valverde did today attacking 35km to go.

"Puncher" is too broad of a term and there are different type of punchers and some are only "seasonal" such as Cancellara dropping the hammer on cobbles in Roubaix or steep short climbs in RVV.

Guys like Nibali or Sagan are always attacking on any terrain even on descents and they should be considered current top "Punchers". Flowerboy is also flying these days and is winning just about every race and definitely is making the races more exciting.

I think Gilbert was the best puncher in 2011 and since there wasnt anybody dominating the same way he was because the competition is tougher.

wait what? I understand and agree to some extent that you criticize his racing style, but since when does a puncheur have to attack from far out to be a puncheur?! I thought a puncheur is somebody who packs the greatest punch uphill, which is obviously Purito.

Also, he did actually start attacking more in recent years. He won two Lombardia's solo and he attacked a lot in the WC last year, to name the most prominent examples.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Who is the best/most rounded puncheur currently? Can be classics or stage race finishes.

For a race that finishes on a steep climb, who would be favorite or top 3: eg.
1km @ 20%?
1km @ 15%?
1km @ 10%?

Based on above, what sort of finish can be designed to most suit a specific rider for a victory? eg. Moreno, Sanchez, Dan Martin, etc.

puncheur has nothing to do with steep gradients but just with having the biggest kick at the end of a stage. explosvity it is.

 

[Guybrush]

Where's Froome? ie he droped everyone at the steepest parts of Planche des Belles Filles, Green Mountain, etc

I think Moreno will be stronger than Rodriguez this year

edit:
to strength my point

 

[notrolfsorensen]

Where's Froome? ie he droped everyone at the steepest parts of Planche des Belles Filles, Green Mountain, etc

I think Moreno will be stronger than Rodriguez this year

Froome is a climber not a puncheur. It's in sustained efforts that he is great. He hasn't won Fleche, Liege, Amstel or Lombardy. Personally I think Purito, Valverde and Moreno are best on the steepest parts, but Gilbert and Sagan are best on the not so steep parts. The spanish guys on the Muur de Huy-type finish, Sagz and Gilbert on the Cauberg-type finish.


Edit. Voted Valverde because he's the best of both types, although not the best of either

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Where's Froome? ie he droped everyone at the steepest parts of Planche des Belles Filles, Green Mountain, etc

I think Moreno will be stronger than Rodriguez this year

froome is not explosive at all

 

[Amsterdam]

Purito still has my vote. I wonder how long he stays the nummer one. Last year he already had less victories than in 2011 and 2012. Moreno en Betancur not far behind.

 

[Guybrush]

froome is not explosive at all

Not the most, but he can overpunch half of that list

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Where's Froome? ie he droped everyone at the steepest parts of Planche des Belles Filles, Green Mountain, etc

I think Moreno will be stronger than Rodriguez this year

Froome turns up the wick on longer climbs and destroys people. Climbers who have puncheur explosivity like Murito & Valverde can also produce the goods on longer climbs, but we're talking proper puncheur terrain here, 1-3km climbs. The climbs you're talking about are in the 6km range - things like Peña Cabarga, Urkiola etc.. Even since his transformation Froome hasn't been super-great in the kind of finish we're talking about:

- 22nd +20", 2011 Vuelta - Valdepeñás de Jaén (winner: Joaquím Rodríguez)
- 20th +25", 2011 Vuelta - San Lorenzo de El Escorial (winner: Joaquím Rodríguez)
- 11th +7", 2012 Dauphiné - Châtel (winner: Daniel Moreno)
- 2nd +5", 2012 Vuelta - Hoz de Jacá (winner: Joaquím Rodríguez)
- 46th +12", 2012 Vuelta - Parc Montjuïc (winner: Philippe Gilbert)
- 5th +23", 2012 Vuelta - Mirador de Ézaro (winner: Joaquím Rodríguez)
- 23rd +11", 2012 Vuelta - La Lastrilla (winner: Philippe Gilbert)
- DNF, 2012 Worlds - Valkenburg (winner: Philippe Gilbert)
- 6th +8", 2013 Tirreno-Adriatico - Chieti (winner: Joaquím Rodríguez)
- 19th +50", 2013 Tirreno-Adriatico - Porto Sant'Elipidio (winner: Peter Sagan)
- DNF, 2013 Worlds - Firenze (winner: Rui Costa)

Post-transformation Froome has never taken on the Ardennes.

On a climb like Green Mountain or Planche des Belles Filles, guys like Gilbert fall by the wayside, as the climb is too long for their explosivity, but also the climb isn't long enough for the diesel climbers to be able to come into their elements either. You could argue that even a climb like Xorret del Catí, at 3800m, is too long for the exercise we're doing here, maybe even the more climber-biased ones like Montée Laurent Jalabert or Bologna San Luca. We're talking Montelupone, Mur de Huy, Valdepeñas de Jaén, Aia, Chieti, Castillo de Burgos, Cauberg here.

 

[Arredondo]

Purito still has my vote. I wonder how long he stays the nummer one. Last year he already had less victories than in 2011 and 2012. Moreno en Betancur not far behind.

Because he had bad luck in the Classics. He crashed at the Amstel, otherwise he would win FW without any doubt and probarly LBL (where he was already 2nd at not fully 100%). He also didn't ride Pais Vasco (where he had 2 victories in 2012).

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Not the most, but he can overpunch half of that list

no he can't. only gesink becaus ethat one must be a joke to have him on the list

 

[Pentacycle]

Froome and Gesink are the biggest diesels of the peloton and not punchers at all. On hills they're usually the ones who have to close a gap near the top.

 

[Escarabajo]

Purito got 50% of all votes? Are you kidding me?
Sure, he is the king of the steep last Km but other than that he is not exactly an attacker/puncher. He likes to follow wheels and use his size on the last steep section.

I really dont recall Purito doing something that Sagan did yesterday (attacking solo 20km to go) or Valverde did today attacking 35km to go.

"Puncher" is too broad of a term and there are different type of punchers and some are only "seasonal" such as Cancellara dropping the hammer on cobbles in Roubaix or steep short climbs in RVV.

Guys like Nibali or Sagan are always attacking on any terrain even on descents and they should be considered current top "Punchers". Flowerboy is also flying these days and is winning just about every race and definitely is making the races more exciting.

I think Gilbert was the best puncher in 2011 and since there wasnt anybody dominating the same way he was because the competition is tougher.

I don't think that is the definition of Puncheur but that is just my opinion and what I think the OP intented to ask.

There are other definitions going around out there that includes the things that you are talking about, but for the question in this thread, I think it is a different definition.