Pure climbers.

[LaFlorecita]

I'll explain as far as I understand myself: Let's say two riders are riding together and have to ride same w/kg.(it's true what you say but a little more complicated) One rider is 48 kg, the other 61 kg. If both riders have a max of 6.5 W/kg they can sustain(so they'll be dropped if they get above that) and they both have the same 6.8 kg bike, the 61 kg rider has an absolute max power of 397W, the other of 312. But with their bikes they only have left: 5.7 W/kg for the 48kg rider and 5.85 W for the 61 kg rider.

Yea... but we don't know their max W/kg so we can't say who is more talented.

For air resistance if both riders have the same resistance the lighter one also has that disadvantage, because it's the same as with the fixed bike weight.

This means a rider who is heavier and thereby can produce more absolute power always gets the upper hand, if equally talented. The hypothetical 0.15 W/kg difference is a lot. Rujano on the Etna could only follow when he was completely behind Contador, but he was dropped when the wind came from the side.

But then again a smaller rider will have less air resistance as far as I know.

 

[LaFlorecita]

pure climber means they can just climb?

natural born climbers:

Ricco
Rujano
Pozzovivo
Quintana
Rassmussen
Anton
Cunego
Schleck's
Gesink
hope that Pinot too

Contador is a natural born all rounder, like Merckx and Coppi

I disagree, a pure climber doesn't have to be a horrible tter

 

[theyoungest]

pure climber means they can just climb?

natural born climbers:

Ricco
Rujano
Pozzovivo
Quintana
Rassmussen
Anton
Cunego
Schleck's
Gesink
hope that Pinot too

Contador is a natural born all rounder, like Merckx and Coppi

Gesink was a real climber when he started out, now he's more of a TTer who can hang on in the climbs

Conversely, I still think of Contador as a pure climber who happens to know how to translate that power to a time trial. He's not the grind-it-out type of climber like most allrounders are.

 

[Angliru]

Rujano has to ride relatively higher wattages to even keep up with him, he weighs about 10 kgs less than Alberto. Without air resistance and a fixed bike weight Rujano is the best climber of the world, simple as that.

There's also nothing good about being a 'pure' climber, only being able to climb but sucking at the rest would make you quite useless in most teams.

Doing it fairly consistently would help his cause but Rujano is too wishy-washy to be given serious consideration as the best. Too many incidences of him getting dropped on the very terrain that he should excell. When he's good he's great but when he's bad, which is way too often, he's really bad.

 

[Angliru]

pure climber means they can just climb?

natural born climbers:

Ricco
Rujano
Pozzovivo
Quintana
Rassmussen
Anton
CunegoSchleck's
Gesink
hope that Pinot too

Contador is a natural born all rounder, like Merckx and Coppi

According to some of the previous poster's definitions, having a pretty good sprint knocks Ricco and Cunego out of consideration.

 

[Angliru]

Gesink was a real climber when he started out, now he's more of a TTer who can hang on in the climbs

Conversely, I still think of Contador as a pure climber who happens to know how to translate that power to a time trial. He's not the grind-it-out type of climber like most allrounders are.

I agree with this. The seeming easy and fluidity of his climbing mechanics has to be taken into consideration regardless of how well he performs in other areas. Climbing is his true gift.

 

[Pentacycle]

According to some of the previous poster's definitions, having a pretty good sprint knocks Ricco and Cunego out of consideration.

Schleck and Anton can sprint pretty well too.

 

[Capablanca and me]

I disagree, a pure climber doesn't have to be a horrible tter

i dont wrote the oppisite

Gesink was a real climber when he started out, now he's more of a TTer who can hang on in the climbs

Conversely, I still think of Contador as a pure climber who happens to know how to translate that power to a time trial. He's not the grind-it-out type of climber like most allrounders are.

the bold part is true, so it only depends on the train work?
to Contador, maybe thats the definition the all rounder?

According to some of the previous poster's definitions, having a pretty good sprint knocks Ricco and Cunego out of consideration.

according to my knowledge, Ricco and Cunego is a climber, a natural born climber

 

[LaFlorecita]

i dont wrote the oppisite

You said that Alberto isn't a natural climber but a natural all rounder. If his tt skills isn't the reason you say this what is? So someone who is a good tter can't be a pure climber

 

[LaFlorecita]

And you can't say he is a natural allrounder like Merckx because Eddy could win everything. Alberto can only win mtfs and prologues and hilly/mountain tts

 

[BlenJones2]

Ricco is a pure doper not pure climber

 

[RiccoDinko]

Michael Rasmussen = Mr Pure Climber