Rabobank riders connected with Austrian doping ring?

[RdBiker]

The rumour mill suggests that the Rabobank team and possibly Dennis Menchov might be somehow connected with the Austrian doping ring. I can't remember if any Rabobank rider has been connected with doping accusations since Rasmussen.

http://www.velonews.com/article/92475/austrian-doping-investigators-talk-to-rabobank-menchov

“That’s a curious question,” said a visibly nervous Menchov. “This story isn’t new to me. I heard all about it last year. I gave explanations last year. I have nothing to do with it. I don’t want to have to speak about it again and give the same explanations. We’re in the race now. I’d rather speak about the Giro.”

 

[Anonymous]

storm, molehill, mountains and teacups..

ongoing invesetigation, austrian police asking everyone, rabobank included... velonews having a minor regurgitation, which is why we (well I) read cycling news and not the tabloid equivalent..

 

[yourwelcome]

I love the 'said a visibly nervous Menchov'. That's serious evidence right there - thank god for keen-eyed investigative reporters.

 

[euphrades]

Dim

Ironicly i saw the first mention of this by Cycling news

 

[Anonymous]

Dim

Ironicly i saw the first mention of this by Cycling news

irony is lost on me..

it probably was.. ive stopped reading the rumours now.. i can read far more extreme and fun ones on here..

 

[davestoller]

storm, molehill, mountains and teacups..

ongoing invesetigation, austrian police asking everyone, rabobank included... velonews having a minor regurgitation, which is why we (well I) read cycling news and not the tabloid equivalent..

cyclingnews has become the anti-Lance network and certainly holds no claim to superior wisdom or judgement on matters doping.

Just saying.

Menchov's performances are as high or higher than his usual and according to professional observers of the sport no slower than any ET performances a few years back.

Please recall, Rasmussen was on Rabobank.

Menchov bailed DURING that Tour for reasons we may never know but can speculate--perhaps he knew the sh@t was going to hit the fan.
Maybe he was part of the leak about Ras' whereabouts.
Who knows?

But one thing for sure, the fact that something is coming uop about Rabo and menchov should not be brushed aside simply because it is publsihed on another website.

Many observers are noticing that his performances are quite unusually solid.

 

[elapid]

cyclingnews has become the anti-Lance network and certainly holds no claim to superior wisdom or judgement on matters doping.

I find this a strange opening to a post on a doping thread on Cyclingnews. Are you suggesting that the remainder of your post is of inferior wisdom and judgement? Just saying because you may have valid points.

But one thing for sure, the fact that something is coming uop about Rabo and menchov should not be brushed aside simply because it is publsihed on another website.

Many observers are noticing that his performances are quite unusually solid.

I doubt that it is being brushed aside because it is news (or rumour?) regardless of who reports it. Please note that it has also been published on Cyclingnews.

I personally do not think Menchov's performance has been "quite unusually solid". Kohl and Schumacher are examples of riders rising from relative obscurity and being "quite unusually solid", whereas Menchov has been a GT contender for a number of years and has won two Vueltas. That's not to say that he is not doping, but his performance is not atypical.

 

[lookkg386]

i love the 'said a visibly nervous menchov'. That's serious evidence right there - thank god for keen-eyed investigative reporters.

guilty!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[RdBiker]

storm, molehill, mountains and teacups..

ongoing invesetigation, austrian police asking everyone, rabobank included... velonews having a minor regurgitation, which is why we (well I) read cycling news and not the tabloid equivalent..

Yes. The police are investigating possible Rabobank connection in the Austrian doping ring case and hence the title "Rabobank riders connected with Austrian doping ring?". It seems velonews beat cyclingnews to it. Besides, why would they be investigating if there would be no doubt about it. I wonder if Rasmussen was the only rider involved. I find it interesting that riders never want to talk about their involvement in some sort of doping investigation but always insist they don't want to answer questions but concentrate on race/preparing for a race. If you've got nothing to hide, why not talk about it.

 

[Aapjes]

Menchov bailed DURING that Tour for reasons we may never know but can speculate--perhaps he knew the sh@t was going to hit the fan.

He bailed after Rasmussen was pulled, since he he was understandably upset about working hard for Rasmussen and then have his work be for naught. We know that the entire team discussed quitting after the Rasmussen 'abandon', but most wanted to continue. Presumably Menchov felt that he couldn't.

Anyway, since Menchov bailed after the Rasmussen abandon, it clearly wasn't a case of prior knowledge.

Maybe he was part of the leak about Ras' whereabouts.

That is extremely unlikely since Menchov didn't train with Rasmussen when the latter lied about his whereabouts. Before the Rasmussen incident, Rabobank had a very liberal setup where riders were mostly responsible for their own training schedule. It's very likely that Menchov didn't even know where Rasmussen was most of the time, since even the Rabobank DS didn't seem to know (Rasmussen and Menchov never seemed to be friends, so it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't talk to each other outside of the races they rode together and team events).

Besides, why would Menchov be comparing the current locations of his teammates with the whereabouts list (if he even has access to them)? I'm sure that he had better things to do.

Who knows?

Clearly you don't know the basic facts. Perhaps you should go and work for one of the tabloids. They can always use people who don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

 

[BroDeal]

cyclingnews has become the anti-Lance network and certainly holds no claim to superior wisdom or judgement on matters doping.

Just saying.

Menchov's performances are as high or higher than his usual and according to professional observers of the sport no slower than any ET performances a few years back.

Please recall, Rasmussen was on Rabobank.

Menchov bailed DURING that Tour for reasons we may never know but can speculate--perhaps he knew the sh@t was going to hit the fan.
Maybe he was part of the leak about Ras' whereabouts.
Who knows?

But one thing for sure, the fact that something is coming uop about Rabo and menchov should not be brushed aside simply because it is publsihed on another website.

Many observers are noticing that his performances are quite unusually solid.

This is classic.

It starts off with outrage about people pointing out Armstrong has doped and sneers at the wisdom and judgement of those who do so. Then it moves on to accuse Menchov with a case of innuendo that is incredibly weak compared to the evidence of Armstrong's doping. It uses a bunch of "facts" that are outright wrong to make the case. And finally ends with a warning that we should not brush aside rumors of Menchov doping, but evidently we should brush aside evidence of Armstrong doing so.

Pretzel logic at its finest.

 

[craig1985]

I have some faith in Menchov that he hasn't been up to no good. If I were him (and obviously I'm not) I would offer a DNA sample anytime anywhere. You wouldn't do it if you had something to hide, would you?

(And FFS not everything revolves around a certain Texan)

 

[BroDeal]

I have some faith in Menchov that he hasn't been up to no good. If I were him (and obviously I'm not) I would offer a DNA sample anytime anywhere. You wouldn't do it if you had something to hide, would you?

A DNA sample for what purpose? Unless police find his blood in storage somewhere, a DNA sample is worthless.

 

[craig1985]

A DNA sample for what purpose? Unless police find his blood in storage somewhere, a DNA sample is worthless.

Well in that case why not just say 'prepared to offer a DNA sample if need be'?

 

[Cloxxki]

Well in that case why not just say 'prepared to offer a DNA sample if need be'?

Menchov before was (nearly) matching performances in GC of later confirmed dopers. Perhaps he's just that good. Rabobank have always been trusting in him. If you see how they treated Rasmussen, you'd think they relying on menchov for his telents, and not his talents to dope well and deliver clean tests.
With boosters like EPO more and more extinct, the greatest talents will be performing relatively better. You also see that with Armstrong, a well documented freak of nature. He's still out of shape, but not exactly far off the pace, considering the people he's racing, and what's at stake.
The cleaner a peloton, the less opposion a true talent will have. Eevery rider caught, every rider suddently retiring, makes the peloton cleaner, and the opposition less for clean talented riders.
Nothing is certain, but certain is that one rider will have more talent than the next, and at that level, they all know how to get out of bed for a hard training session. No slackers allowed at that level, Mr. Darwin figured something out for us in that respect.

 

[tifosa]

you'd think they relying on menchov for his telents, and not his talents to dope well and deliver clean tests.

It's the "delivering clean tests" part that's missed by many a doper. However, I'm still holding out hope for Menchov. Then again, it's easy to be hopeful when the rider is one of your favorites (and a Giro favorite), isn't it?

 

[Animal]

You also see that with Armstrong, a well documented freak of nature...

Your naivete is endearing in some ways, a cause of despair in others.

 

[Bala Verde]

Well, if and I say IF Menchov is on something, then I can't delude myself and say that di Luca is clean.

I don't know, I am split on this issue.

Given Kohl's admissions, it is difficult to believe the 'myth' that only a few bad apples taint the peloton. If he came in third in the TdF, fully prepared, then how come others, including Menchov (Banesto, Rabobank) as 4th, Evans (Silence Lotto) 2nd and Sastre (Banesto, CSC) 1st could have performed so well.

On the other hand, perhaps Kohl was really not so talented, and he needed the extra boost just to shoot him up to the ranks of the superstars. Fast track to fame and glory, and given the fact that he had passed doping tests for over 5 years, why would he believe anything would change.

On top of that, if anyone has read the depositions of Triathlete Lisa Hütthaler, also served by Matschiner, you'd see how these dopers lead a double life. They lie to everyone, even their family and closest friends, and live a life in the shadows, being paranoid about people seeing them in the wrong places, forgetting whom they told what about there whereabouts and activitities. Since they lie to everybody they hold dear, they sure need a good justification. Cognitive dissonance would explain that they actually start to believe the 'myth' that everyone dopes. If not, who are they kidding!

The whole Rabobank debacle in the 2007 TdF would be very interesting to dissect. Menchov not on form, Rasmussen being in amazing condition, taking over the leadership role/protected role of Menchov, who subsequently drops out the day after Rasmussen got fired (who is implicated in the purchase of a centrifuge). Perhaps Menchov (always) rode clean, and noticed that some of his team mates were messing with the wrong products, that he could not accept. What explains his lack of form in that TdF, or him, as the only one of the whole team, leaving?

Boogerd, at his age then, rode a great 'last TdF' assisting Rasmussen to hold on to yellow. Thomas Dekker was another great superdomestique, whose irregular blood values story and his ties with Checcini, have not done his rep any good. I know that Boogerd was devastated after they pulled Rasmussen from the team, which made them lose the yellow jersey they had worked for so long. He defended Rasmussen till the end. Then again, Boogerd was known for being an training freak, who'd never pass up and always made every team training as tough as nails. Perhaps, in his last TdF, he gave it all he got, with the yellow in sight, he rose to the occasion.

I have always sensed some, perhaps unfounded or ill-perceived, animosity between some rabobank riders (amongst them Boogerd) and Menchov. Criticizing him for 'not delivering', 'not being a team leader' or lacking 'confidence'. Who knows, if you notice that the rest is on something, how could you not be unsure of your own capabilities...

I just don't know, but I sure hope he's clean.

 

[Stani Kléber]

A DNA sample for what purpose? Unless police find his blood in storage somewhere, a DNA sample is worthless.

Exactly. The Austrian police have got a large collection of bags from the Humanplasma clinic and perhaps they will start DNA testing this.

 

[RdBiker]

Di Luca has been connected with the Oil for Drugs doping case and I don't believe for a second that he is clean. Menchov is able to stay with DDL on the mountains so what makes anyone believe he's clean? How can anyone believe that any rider finishing in the top ten of (or top-20) of a Grand Tour is clean?

How much of a boost in performance does EPO give a rider? According to my reading the benefits are up to 10 or 15% depending on the rider. Throw in the benefits of a recovery PED like testosterone and more performance enhancing methods like blood doping and we have a difference of winning the Giro d'Italia and abandoning half-way through. So who would not dope? If you simply don't stand a chance against the guy who also trains 35+hrs a week and gets that 15-20% boost from PEDs, why would you not dope too?

One example of a possibly cleaner rider is Cunego. He's a talent (at least if you ask his former and present directeurs sportifs) and potentially capable of winning a GT. Now he apparently is cleaner than in 2004 and look where he's at on the GC.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Wait, is someone saying that maybe, possible an entire team was connected to doping??? Wha... Impossible!

It's like that scene from one of the Zucker brothers films where there is this gigantic fire, like 10 city blocks ablaze, and people are all gathered around looking and the cop shows up "nothing to see here folks, everyone move along."

 

[shawnrohrbach]

Yes. The police are investigating possible Rabobank connection in the Austrian doping ring case and hence the title "Rabobank riders connected with Austrian doping ring?". It seems velonews beat cyclingnews to it. Besides, why would they be investigating if there would be no doubt about it. I wonder if Rasmussen was the only rider involved. I find it interesting that riders never want to talk about their involvement in some sort of doping investigation but always insist they don't want to answer questions but concentrate on race/preparing for a race. If you've got nothing to hide, why not talk about it.

something from my novel Feast Days of the Saints

"Honest people don’t feel this way. They have no
fear of speaking to the police, and they admit mistakes
because they know they will learn from them. Honest
people accept limitations and work hard to overcome them.
Men who live luxuriously on money they acquired in a
bank robbery don’t—they just spend the money.
Funny movies are made of mobsters who pay for
psychoanalysis. He felt like this, like he belonged in a
funny movie where the therapist knew he had cheated but
instead of admitting it to the world, he went on spending
the money, unsure still of why he was so miserable. It
wasn’t supposed to be like this, success."

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

This is classic... And finally ends with a warning that we should not brush aside rumors of Menchov doping, but evidently we should brush aside evidence of Armstrong doing so.

You make a good point, but from what I can tell, most people - this would mean most bike racing fans, and even casual riders down to the commuter level - have pretty much accepted that it's irrefutable that Lance doped. I think the perception seems askew because he puts up such a great front and has such vocal & ardent supporters. But don't you see the same thing I do in the people you talk to or come across, both directly, and indirectly?

 

[Anonymous]

Menchov before was (nearly) matching performances in GC of later confirmed dopers. Perhaps he's just that good. Rabobank have always been trusting in him. If you see how they treated Rasmussen, you'd think they relying on menchov for his telents, and not his talents to dope well and deliver clean tests.
With boosters like EPO more and more extinct, the greatest talents will be performing relatively better. You also see that with Armstrong, a well documented freak of nature. He's still out of shape, but not exactly far off the pace, considering the people he's racing, and what's at stake.
The cleaner a peloton, the less opposion a true talent will have. Eevery rider caught, every rider suddently retiring, makes the peloton cleaner, and the opposition less for clean talented riders.
Nothing is certain, but certain is that one rider will have more talent than the next, and at that level, they all know how to get out of bed for a hard training session. No slackers allowed at that level, Mr. Darwin figured something out for us in that respect.

Oh man, its the "Armstrong's heart is the size of a dinner plate" theory again. I am so sick of this fanboy ****.

 

[BikeCentric]

Oh man, its the "Armstrong's heart is the size of a dinner plate" theory again. I am so sick of this fanboy ****.

High cadence and weight loss too!!