Rabobus

[sTTevie]

Just to say this. 4 years ago Gesink finished 4th in FW, 3 years ago 3rd in Amstel.
You would think by now he'd won one of the two races. But in fact, now guys like Vanendert are simply better than him. While I remember when both riders were neo-pro. Gesink was slightly better both in FW (9th vs 13th) as in the Tour of Belgium hill stage (Vanendert attacked, Gesink countered and dropped him).

Says enough about the progression last 4 years...I mean..he was doing well in these classics at the same age Sagan is noiw. Now nowhere...

because the team rides like a 'dweil' ... last year they had 3 guys in the front group at the Gold Race ... 3 guys ... & they didn't do jack $h!t ... that's just lame ...

same this year ... Mollema says he wanted the final to be harder ... so wake the f*ck up in the team car & make things happen ... no, they just go with the flow

 

[Kwibus]

because the team rides like a 'dweil' ... last year they had 3 guys in the front group at the Gold Race ... 3 guys ... & they didn't do jack $h!t ... that's just lame ...

same this year ... Mollema says he wanted the final to be harder ... so wake the f*ck up in the team car & make things happen ... no, they just go with the flow

I understand the critism on last year AGRs, but like all 3 said back then they were happy to be in the group of 11 since they all were DEAD which means they simply weren't capable of attacking anymore.

I agree on this year though. Mollema should've demanded more and they didn't send anyone up the road as well which was the really depressing.

 

[greenedge]

Yeah their strategy seemed all wrong. Gesink/ Breschel failed and Martens ( who was hyped up like crazy- was anonymous ).

If Bauke wanted the race to be harder why did Rabo not get peole into the escape group/ maybe tag along with Freire.

I do not think they can feature in either of the two upcoming Ardennes- if Gesinks' form is that bad.

 

[greenedge]

I think the willpower of Gesink is now costing him, as he's not developing his talent enough. A change of team would be good for him, I dare say vital.

If he moved to Vac- that would be awesome. He could attack a lot/ still be on a dutch team.

Also @Kwibus: I wold love for Matthews to move ( if only so GE snap him up ). Also Rabo have Bos, Renshaw and Breschel- Mathhews deserves more of a status -at least 2nd ( sprint ) leader on a team.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Gesink can hardly fail when nobody is expecting something.
I mean the first predictions after his fall was that he would be out till april. The fact that he is racing and was there until the Fromberg is already half a miracle.

 

[Kwibus]

Gesink can hardly fail when nobody is expecting something.
I mean the first predictions after his fall was that he would be out till april. The fact that he is racing and was there until the Fromberg is already half a miracle.

Indeed. I was cringing when the dutch commentators said that Gesink got dropped too early for his expectations. How can they say something like that? I assume they are aware of the fact that a few months ago it was considered impossible for him to ride the spring classics.

Imo it wouldn't surprise me if they found out he started racing too early.

 

[Arnout]

You know what's bad. I think that's better for everyone in the team.

p.s. I don't really agree about Gesink since he has the talent to back it up. He is certainly good at suffering, but he also has the numbers to back it up. I know numbers don't always translate to results.

I know, of course he has (massive) talent. Without it, he wouldn't have been where he is. Only, I think his ability to suffer holds him back, see next section.

Gesink does indeed have a great ability to suffer, but don't forget that in cycling, that's a talent in itself, maybe the most important one. He has a massive suffer face, but you constantly seem to confuse the way a rider looks on his bike with the amount of talent they have. Since when is talent a matter of taste? More specifically, your taste? Evans never looks comfortable on the bike either, but I dare say he's done pretty well for himself.

I'm not basing myself on his face, only. For me, the most remarkable thing is his cadence. Over the years, his rpm uphill has become higher and higher. With the years, you'd expect him to get stronger, be able to deliver more power, and switch to a more average cadence. I admit I cannot back it up, but I have a feeling that he is simply doing what he did last year and the year before, in the same manner, as he obviously is able to get decent results with it. If he can combine his suffering with improved efficiency, he might become a winner, but it doesn't seem to happen. Remember Mario Cipollini trained for years to survive the final of MSR and in the end he was able to do brilliant things in MSR and also Gent - Wevelgem, things we didn't expect. At the moment, I don't see Gesink pushing for improvement.

Gesink can hardly fail when nobody is expecting something.
I mean the first predictions after his fall was that he would be out till april. The fact that he is racing and was there until the Fromberg is already half a miracle.

Like I said, I'm not judging him on this spring, but as you said yourself, his progress in the past couple of years is minimal.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

yeah, but there i was referring mainly to his 2009/10/11 results ofcourse.
This spring is no reference like you said yourself

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Maybe I'm overreacting, but isn't it time for Rabo to completely replace their technical staff and start fresh again?

They got plenty of potential, but no results. Something is going wrong.

Kick out Delahaye and the teamleaders and replace them with fresh blood. No more sissies like Breukink as well. People that have the balls to make tough calls. Rabobank always tries to keep everything in harmony.

The only one performing somewhat atm is Mollema who is known to do his own training without Delahaye.
I'm worried that riders like Matthews will leave Rabo next year go somewhere else and win 10 races that season.

Something needs to change... or I'm just dramatic.
I know a good TDF will change everything, but I can't see it happening.

lol, this is true and it's quite pathetic. if I was a trainer and all my riders were fialing I would start asking myself some questions. delahaye is just happy to have a job

 

[theyoungest]

I'm not basing myself on his face, only. For me, the most remarkable thing is his cadence. Over the years, his rpm uphill has become higher and higher. With the years, you'd expect him to get stronger, be able to deliver more power, and switch to a more average cadence. I admit I cannot back it up, but I have a feeling that he is simply doing what he did last year and the year before, in the same manner, as he obviously is able to get decent results with it. If he can combine his suffering with improved efficiency, he might become a winner, but it doesn't seem to happen. Remember Mario Cipollini trained for years to survive the final of MSR and in the end he was able to do brilliant things in MSR and also Gent - Wevelgem, things we didn't expect. At the moment, I don't see Gesink pushing for improvement.

For himself, I think he sees the higher cadence as an improvement. Guys like Boogerd cringe when they see it, and frankly Gesink is really overding it, but it's the old Amstrongian way to save energy for the final. But last year he didn't have many races where he actually rode the final

In Quebec and the Dauphiné he showed that he can still ride the big gear when it matters.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Indeed. I was cringing when the dutch commentators said that Gesink got dropped too early for his expectations. How can they say something like that? I assume they are aware of the fact that a few months ago it was considered impossible for him to ride the spring classics.

Imo it wouldn't surprise me if they found out he started racing too early.

no they were completely right. already in december gesink was tarinign at full. so how come 2 months later he sucks as much as he did when he started in ruta del sol. no improvement. he will suck this whole year and become some beloki rider, without the great palmares though.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

For himself, I think he sees the higher cadence as an improvement. Guys like Boogerd cringe when they see it, and frankly Gesink is really overding it, but it's the old Amstrongian way to save energy for the final. But last year he didn't have many races where he actually rode the final

In Quebec and the Dauphiné he showed that he can still ride the big gear when it matters.

the thing is armstrong did it, but he was an explosive rider. gesink is not so it makes absolute no sense for him to do.

 

[Hiddas]

no they were completely right. already in december gesink was tarinign at full. so how come 2 months later he sucks as much as he did when he started in ruta del sol. no improvement. he will suck this whole year and become some beloki rider, without the great palmares though.

he could train without any problems back in december but any over pro started training back in november. Above that I think his level of fitness compared to someone who had a normal winter period was pretty low. So for him not being able to be at top level this time of the season seems quite logical to me

 

[theyoungest]

he could train without any problems back in december but any over pro started training back in november. Above that I think his level of fitness compared to someone who had a normal winter period was pretty low. So for him not being able to be at top level this time of the season seems quite logical to me

Of course it is. He got sick before Pais Vasco as well. Ryo is talking the usual **** again.

Yes, Gesink did train in December. But at the level of a grandpa.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

in decmeber he trained full again. 6 hour rides. he posted himself.

 

[Hiddas]

in decmeber he trained full again. 6 hour rides. he posted himself.

I can do 6 hour rides too but that doesn't mean I'll be at his level of fitness in a couple of months by doing those rides

 

[El Pistolero]

It's not about how long you train, but how fast you go during your training rides. Everyone can ride 6 hours on a bike.

 

[The Hitch]

You are resorting to daotec arguments.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

It's not about how long you train, but how fast you go during your training rides. Everyone can ride 6 hours on a bike.

he posted his wattages and output, which was very high.

 

[theyoungest]

He posted his Watts in February or something. After he had already done a full training camp with the team.

 

[Bala Verde]

Who has been the most successful sport director in a race in the last couple of years? Could it be van Houwelingen?

People who have underperformed in 2012 so far are Breschel, Renshaw, Boom, Bos.

Gesink is coming back from a broken leg, so I am not rating him yet. But then again, what is his goal for this season. Be ready for the TdF or be competitive at the TdF. Or is is goal later in the season i.e. the Vuelta and the Worlds?

Matthews has secured three podium spots and he is still young, so I'd like to wait and see how he progresses next year. Where did he ride recently, in Pais Vasco? I think the team worked 2 times to get to a sprint and he didn't deliver, not even close to a podium. Bad luck? Bad positioning? No proper lead out/last pilot to launch him?

We haven't seen much from LtD yet, Sanchez secured 2 wins so far but it's meager (especially after passing up the almost certain win in Castilia y Leon), Paul Martens in the Amstel was disappointing and his legs (according to twitter?) aren't good... What is Sanchez actually targeting? Anything in particular, being a good helper in the TdF and hope for a stage win?

I'd like to see RAB - for a long time I have wished that - to be a little less calculated and a 'little' more passionate about their riding. When you see someone like Lieuwe Westra rip it up, Wout Poels to try and contest a sprint, Voeckler to attack every inch of the way, etc; they get results and they make for exciting cycling.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Ltd was in that 2nd group in BR Pijl

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Ltd was in that 2nd group in BR Pijl

that's what he said., we haven't sene him basically.

 

[sTTevie]

for those of you who speak (or understand) Dutch ... a nice piece on how Dutch cycling needs a man like Raas to get the spark going again ...

http://hetiskoers.nl/2012/vloeken-als-jan-raas-godverdomme/

 

[Kwibus]

You are resorting to daotec arguments.

As if it makes any sense to argue with Ryo.
Allthough I think ignoring is better.