Rabobus

[The Hitch]

Check out Lotto-Belisol

3letters. S K and Y

 

[Richeypen]

3letters. S K and Y

conveniently his criteria of being born in 1988 or later cuts out EBH and Heano.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Even I gave up some point last year

This is classic man.

To be fair the best riders of rabo atm all come from the youth system.
IMO the system is starting to develop some pretty great riders.

 

[ferryman]

This is classic man.

To be fair the best riders of rabo atm all come from the youth system.
IMO the system is starting to develop some pretty great riders.

The best youth system by a country mile IMO. Just get the young climbers who have come through (Gesink the older as team leader) and unleash them in a frenzy of Orange

 

[El Pistolero]

3letters. S K and Y

What are you talking about? Lotto has 7 riders that are 23 years old or younger. Sky have 5, just like Quick Step.

Lotto has an average age of 26,89.

Sky has an average age of 27,67.

 

[gustienordic]

conveniently his criteria of being born in 1988 or later cuts out EBH and Heano.

Thats just usually the age for skiing,... so thats what I'm used to.

But I do agree that Lotto has some good ones as well. Sky has some great guys to, but they usually sign them a little later; they don't have a feeder team like Rabo or Garmin.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

What are you talking about? Lotto has 7 riders that are 23 years old or younger. Sky have 5, just like Quick Step.

Lotto has an average age of 26,89.

Sky has an average age of 27,67.

quality should be considered no?

lotto have a lot of youngsters unproven, tho I think they do have some pretty good neo pros. Debusschere I like, but hasn't really shown anything, had a couple ok results in espoirs. Vanendert junior didn't show a lot in espoir, so his talent and ability is speculation at this point. Tosh did ok in espoirs too, but I don't think he can come straight into the scene and win races. None of their under 25 riders are really known names tbh and have shown little.
Teams like rabo, sky etc and thier youngsters have a fair bit of hype from performing at younger levels and such. Just because lotto have a lot of youngsters doesn't mean they are the best at developing young talents.

 

[El Pistolero]

So only teams that develop big young stars are helping the development of cycling? I was under the impression domestiques are needed as well.

They have very promising young talents. And they have an U23 team to develop talent, just like Rabobank. What did Sky do to develop young talent? They just threw big bucks at big talents in the U23 category. How is that any different than BMC buying up the biggest names in cycling? Where did I say Lotto was the best at anything?

As for Dennis Vanendert, he DID have some good results last year. Not Demare like results, but still good results never the less.

Lotto isn't doing any worse than Garmin with young talent. Obviously Vanmarcke doesn't count anymore, he's been pro since 2010... It's his third pro year now. He was developed by Top Sport Vlaanderen, not Garmin... Credit where credit is due please.

Of course none of their riders are famous here, no one hypes them to extreme levels Thank God for that. Although you should definitely know Tosh van der Sande if you're interested in U23 cycling. He had some really good results.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

So only teams that develop big young stars are helping the development of cycling? I was under the impression domestiques are needed as well.

They have very promising young talents. And they have an U23 team to develop talent, just like Rabobank. What did Sky do to develop young talent? They just threw big bucks at big talents in the U23 category. How is that any different than BMC buying up the biggest names in cycling? Where did I say Lotto was the best at anything?

As for Dennis Vanendert, he DID have some good results last year. Not Demare like results, but still good results never the less.

Lotto isn't doing any worse than Garmin with young talent. Obviously Vanmarcke doesn't count anymore, he's been pro since 2010... It's his third pro year now. He was developed by Top Sport Vlaanderen, not Garmin... Credit where credit is due please.

Of course none of their riders are famous here, no one hypes them to extreme levels Thank God for that. Although you should definitely know Tosh van der Sande if you're interested in U23 cycling. He had some really good results.

I mentioned tosh if you read. But there were bigger talents then him, nothing too special. Goes double for dennis.
I thought you dont pay attention to u23 tho

you are of course right with the development and feeder teams, I don't disagree there. I was more talking about lottos current crop of youngsters, two different conversations. but overall with development I'd agree that lotto are up there. And yep they do a lot more then sky and bmc, who basically just buy talented riders.

As for hype levels, it comes to performances. You'll see guys like kelderman, dekker etc really did well in the espoir years.
And then some of these youngsters are performing in the big leagues; slagter is starting to show things, kruijswijk etc, compared to the lotto guys who haven't shown a lot. Give credit where it is due ( ) so far the recent crop of rabo conti riders are performing in the WT.

 

[greenedge]

Gesink V Nibbles, agree they haven't rode for a long time againt each other.
My instincts tell me gesink is the better consistant climber, but nibbles probably a more rounded rider. Not sure who would win, reserve judgement on that one.

I think Nibali will win another GT before Gesink wins one ( though the TDF next year might be great for Gesink ).

However based on their TDF's Gesink did finish higher than Nibali 6th>7th.

TVDS however has barely raced in the pro ranks. Also Slagter had a dud year last year???

Australia has produced a few good riders as of late. Dennis did well down Under, Durbridge will dominate surely in ITT's in the future, Bobridge has barely begun his road career, Hepburn has got an ok sprint after a challenging race and Haas could end up going quite well.

It's a pity for Spain their only real feeder team is Movistar CT ( which has no Spanish riders on it ). The Basque riders would get swooped on by Euskatel though right???

 

[The Hitch]

I think Nibali will win another GT before Gesink wins one ( though the TDF next year might be great for Gesink ).

However based on their TDF's Gesink did finish higher than Nibali 6th>7th.

TVDS however has barely raced in the pro ranks. Also Slagter had a dud year last year???

Australia has produced a few good riders as of late. Dennis did well down Under, Durbridge will dominate surely in ITT's in the future, Bobridge has barely begun his road career, Hepburn has got an ok sprint after a challenging race and Haas could end up going quite well.

It's a pity for Spain their only real feeder team is Movistar CT ( which has no Spanish riders on it ). The Basque riders would get swooped on by Euskatel though right???

The only reason nibali didn't also come 6 th is because of a ttt.

 

[frandy]

Yet, Dutch people will know Boogerd more for his stage win on La Plagne and his stage win in Aix-les-Bains, rather than being probably the most consistent hilly classics podium finisher between 98-2007 without ever winning (except 1 amstel gold race). Also, it's unbelievable how many times Boogerd was probably the strongest guy in the race but somehow managed to **** up.
I mean, even Andy Schleck managed to win LBL and he's far slower in a sprint than Boogerd (who still had a decent kick even if he didn't have the reputation)

I was watching some moutain stages in the tour 06 on CT and boogerd was pacing menchov up the climbs mouth wide open he was a beast

 

[Spine Concept]

The only reason nibali didn't also come 6 th is because of a ttt.

Be that as it may, the ttt was part of it. You can't take the one without the other. If it was the other way around and Gesink finished 7th I'm certain anyone who uses the ''ttt'' excuse would be eaten alive. That doesn't make it any less true though, just saying.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Be that as it may, the ttt was part of it. You can't take the one without the other. If it was the other way around and Gesink finished 7th I'm certain anyone who uses the ''ttt'' excuse would be eaten alive. That doesn't make it any less true though, just saying.

You should have replied "and if Gesink didn't fall, broke his ulna, and lost 2 minutes on cobbles and a bit of form as a result, he would have certainly finished 4th' - and see hell break lose

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

You should have replied "and if Gesink didn't fall, broke his ulna, and lost 2 minutes on cobbles and a bit of form as a result, he would have certainly finished 4th' - and see hell break lose

not to mention he had to pull for menchov... aka 3rd place

 

[theyoungest]

Also Slagter had a dud year last year???

No he didn't. Having made the front group in the Strade Bianche stage in the Giro, he crashed horribly. Finally got back to form for the Vuelta, where he was Mollema's most trusted domestique up the climbs (of course mostly mistaken for Kruijswijk by forumites and commentators alike).

 

[Frosty]

In reference to Sky, they have high hopes for Dowsett, Kennaugh and Rowe. Appollonio is a good young sprinter too.

The way i see Rabobank is that they have got a lot of good/very good riders but no riders who have been able to push on to get to the top step. Although the Netherlands is a big cycling nation it is only one country among many and cant be expected to be dominant in the sport so maybe some people's expectations are a bit high? Going off-topic, maybe its like in the UK where Tim Henman was ranked fourth in the world at tennis but was still labelled as sh*t by a lot of people. Considering the number of countries that play tennis fourth isnt that bad but then top-level sport is about winning i suppose.

Personally, i think Gesink has shown some glimpses of real potential and should be one of the top riders in GCs for years to come but i cant see him outperforming Contador and Andy Schleck. Possibly others too but i think the course would depend on his ability against people like Wiggins, Basso, plus they are older so he wont be competing against them the rest of his career. Conty and Schleck could have bans/accidents/illness but without that then i dont think he would win a tour unless he raises his performances.

Mollema and Kruiswijk look promising for GC top 10s and possibly top 5s (Mollema already has a fourth in a Vuelta but that field has been considered to be of lower than normal standard) and maybe Rabobank could be winners of the team awards, especially once the old-timers from RadioSchleck move on. We'll have to see how Kelderman progresses in the big-time races but looks good.

So can see them doing well in the future but just dont think any of them will be making the step up to overall winner of the Tour/Monument. Maybe they could win a Giro or Vuelta but then i think that for Rabobank the Tour is a lot bigger than those two races. Also, the best rider doesnt always win the race so i imagine they will probably snaffle something big at some point.

 

[Spine Concept]

You should have replied "and if Gesink didn't fall, broke his ulna, and lost 2 minutes on cobbles and a bit of form as a result, he would have certainly finished 4th' - and see hell break lose

not to mention he had to pull for menchov... aka 3rd place

I didn't even want to get into that. It would probably lead to another 5 page argument.

 

[Spine Concept]

The way i see Rabobank is that they have got a lot of good/very good riders but no riders who have been able to push on to get to the top step. Although the Netherlands is a big cycling nation it is only one country among many and cant be expected to be dominant in the sport so maybe some people's expectations are a bit high? Going off-topic, maybe its like in the UK where Tim Henman was ranked fourth in the world at tennis but was still labelled as sh*t by a lot of people. Considering the number of countries that play tennis fourth isnt that bad but then top-level sport is about winning i suppose.

No one's expectations are too high. Most of the cyclists that are ''hyped'' or talked about most have a great palmares in their espoir years to warrant being mentioned. That is the only indication one can have that a certain cyclist can have a big future in cycling. I'm not saying that some people don't abuse that privilege - what's known as over-hyping - but it's not like it is plucked out of thin air either. Aside from that I think most people can be guilty of a bit of chauvinism/patriotism, that's quite normal. Finally, I don't know how ''big'' of a cycling nation the Netherlands really is. It is true that they have produced many talents of late, but other than the tour and the AGR I don't think many people here care as much as say in Belgium. Speed skating is much more popular here, as is football, both of which the Netherlands are considered to be big in worldwide.

Personally, i think Gesink has shown some glimpses of real potential and should be one of the top riders in GCs for years to come but i cant see him outperforming Contador and Andy Schleck. Possibly others too but i think the course would depend on his ability against people like Wiggins, Basso, plus they are older so he wont be competing against them the rest of his career. Conty and Schleck could have bans/accidents/illness but without that then i dont think he would win a tour unless he raises his performances.

I agree, for now, about Gesink not being able to outperform Contador and Schleck in the mountains. The others you speak of I cannot make out but I always thought that third spot was wide open for many riders. However, like you said, it all depends on the parcours, if it is mountainous and has little tting than Gesink would have to be among the favorites for third in my opinion. Climbing-wise I think Gesink is better than both Basso and Wiggins. Don't take my word for it though, watch the Vuelta of 09. Other than that though you are right, but I haven't heard anyone on here state that Gesink would win the tour if everyone is fit. Thus I don't know where this is coming from.

Mollema and Kruiswijk look promising for GC top 10s and possibly top 5s (Mollema already has a fourth in a Vuelta but that field has been considered to be of lower than normal standard) and maybe Rabobank could be winners of the team awards, especially once the old-timers from RadioSchleck move on. We'll have to see how Kelderman progresses in the big-time races but looks good.

If Mollema's achievement in the Vuelta can be belittled due to a weak field than many people on here claiming that Froome is the next big thing have another thing coming. I don't necessarily disagree with you but then some people need to pipe down a bit about Froome and how he is already so much better than Gesink because of his Vuelta performance. Aside from that, many people tend to forget that Mollema had the tour in his legs before doing the Vuelta. Thus, the Vuelta wasn't even really his target. He might have been past his peak moment or at the end of it during the Vuelta.
As for Kruijswijk, last year was his first time as the leader in a GT. He did extremely well, above and beyond anyone's expectations. Thus you can understand that many people got excited about him. So it wasn't until last year that people really began having higher expectations of him which is logical, but no one is saying he'll win a GT soon, especially not the tour.

So can see them doing well in the future but just dont think any of them will be making the step up to overall winner of the Tour/Monument. Maybe they could win a Giro or Vuelta but then i think that for Rabobank the Tour is a lot bigger than those two races. Also, the best rider doesnt always win the race so i imagine they will probably snaffle something big at some point.

I agree about the tour, for now. However, this is not only true for Rabobank. We ought to remember though that most of these guys you mentioned are still relatively young. People expect so much from them because they did so well at a young age but tend to forget that they are still growing each year. Wiggins is 31, we'll see when each of these riders you mentioned are 31 and see who has the better palmares.

 

[classicomano]

I was watching some moutain stages in the tour 06 on CT and boogerd was pacing menchov up the climbs mouth wide open he was a beast

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYr5Iw6zF2M

He was so strong that year in that beautiful national jersey, really awesome.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

slagter rode a very good vuelta I thought. Not a dud season for a neo pro.

As for last vuelta, it was a weak field. Froome is overrated imo.
I dont think Mollemas 4th place is more impressive then some of gesink's performance, no way.

 

[theyoungest]

slagter rode a very good vuelta I thought. Not a dud season for a neo pro.

As for last vuelta, it was a weak field. Froome is overrated imo.
I dont think Mollemas 4th place is more impressive then some of gesink's performance, no way.

Exactly. Great result for Mollema, and I got the feeling that he's finally put the aftermath of Pfeiffer behind him, but all he could do was hang on for dear life as the Sky train stormed up the climbs. Gesink could attack and even drop Evans, Valverde, Basso, Sanchez numerous times in that Vuelta, that's something else.

Of course, at the end of the day it's the result that counts, so props to Mollema.

 

[Spine Concept]

Exactly. Great result for Mollema, and I got the feeling that he's finally put the aftermath of Pfeiffer behind him, but all he could do was hang on for dear life as the Sky train stormed up the climbs. Gesink could attack and even drop Evans, Valverde, Basso, Sanchez numerous times in that Vuelta, that's something else.

Of course, at the end of the day it's the result that counts, so props to Mollema.

That's all Gesink is really missing, the luck to just stay on his bike and finish a GT in one piece. I'm certain were that the case his palmares would look way better than some of his rivals and he would get much less stick because of his results. The one's who truly follow Gesink closely though know that it is not all black and white with him.

 

[Frosty]

Thanks for the replies Spine Concept

Think you might have taken things a bit the wrong way though - the post was mostly just my thoughts on Rabobank's team as a whole rather than individual riders, with a bit at the top about how some people can expect too much.

PS: Kruijswijk wasnt a surprise to everyone, some of us made a nice profit having seen his performance the previous year.

 

[Spine Concept]

Thanks for the replies Spine Concept

Think you might have taken things a bit the wrong way though - the post was mostly just my thoughts on Rabobank's riders with a bit at the top about how some people can expect too much.

No problem. I didn't think I took it the wrong way though, you gave your thoughts and I gave mine. I can come off as aggressive in my posting style though, rest assured that I harbor no ill feelings towards you or your opinions. I just wanted to clarify some things which I thought were worth mentioning in regards to your thoughts. Cheers.

Many people thought Kruijswijk was a surprise though, after finishing 18th the first time, 9th is pretty impressive. Not many expected him to climb at the same pace as nibali and scarponi, he even dropped them at a certain point in one of the last stages. You can't tell me you expected that. If you did, than you have just become my new best friend - for betting purposes .