Race Design Thread

[Libertine Seguros]

Start somewhere in Switzerland and you could make that a one-day Classic based on the second half alone. Put it in the Lombardia build up. People will ride.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

Re:

Start somewhere in Switzerland and you could make that a one-day Classic based on the second half alone. Put it in the Lombardia build up. People will ride.

And never want to ride it again!

The Tour of Britain i'm doing is being transfered (via remapping) to Croneascalada. I dont have that much time at the moment, but I should start posting later this month.

 

[SammyLarns]

Hey guys, just come across this thread and I love it! I write a blog that has an element of "fantasy" race-design. I designed a Tour de France route that featured no stages over 200km and an average stage length of less than 150km. I'll work out a way of uploading it to here but you can have a look on the blog as well - http://bikeroutehub.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/tour-de-france-2018-stages-p-2.html

Also, can someone let me know how they got the Tour de France style profile designs?

 

[Netserk]

http://www.cronoescalada.com

 

[LPP68!]

Re:

Sorry, I realise that is probably the wrong thread but not sure where else to put it. Something from yesterday got me thinking....someone mentioned that one of the teams had lights on their bikes for some sort of marketing reason. Would it be feasible to have a nighttime non-technical time-trial of a similar length to yesterday's? Has anything like that every happened? I remember there was a Vuelta stage a couple of years ago that was in the evening, which was quite good, but what about a full-blown afterdark stage where the riders have got to have lights? It would be like scenes from Le Mans. I appreciate there's a safety issue, but if it's a non-technical time trial I think it could be minimised.

This has already been done, not surprisingly in the Giro. The prologue in 2005 was ridden under artificial light. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEXQsSKaiC0

 

[Gigs_98]

Tour de France stage 16: Bellegarde sur Valserine - Annecy ITT (60 km)

The first stage of this tour already was an ITT, however since that there were no more TT kilometers. On stage 16 that changes with a massive individual time trial from Bellegarde sur Valserine to Annecy. 60 km´s with three categorized climbs. This mixture will create huge time gaps. Moreover there are some sections which are extremely technical, especially with TT bikes. Even if there had been very defensive racing in the first two weeks, now there would be time gaps, big enough to guarantee attacks in the alp stages.
btw, I know many people prefer ITT´s after the last mountain stage because you can never be sure how much time you will loose/get in an ITT, especially in such a long one. However in my opinion if a rider knows how much time he has to get in a mountain stage, this can also make the race very interesting (moreover its easier to calculate what a rider has to do when you know exactly how much time he has to get, which I personally really like)

Bellegarde sur Valserine:

Annecy:

climbs:
Les Bachats (4th cat.)
Clermont (3rd cat.)
Ferrière (3rd cat.)

 

[lemon cheese cake]

How will the points be worked out for the climbs?

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

How will the points be worked out for the climbs?

In the same way the points are worked out in other gt´s. I actually don't know how that works but as far as I know its normal that mountain points are given to the riders in time trials.

 

[Finn84]

I created a start for Giro d'Italia, a total of four stages. I'm not doing any further.

Giro d'Italia has had multiple starts outside Italy recently and those have meant early rest day to accomodate long transfers. So I decided to do another foreign start, but without the need of rest and transfer day.

Thus, I decided to put the start at Zagreb and have three stages in Croatia and Slovenia. One entirely in Croatia, one getting past the border and one entirely in Slovenia. To have better use of Croatian roads, the race starts with mass start stage just like Tour de France has done four times in the last decade. Also, the race includes a very early 30-kilometre individual time trial once the riders have returned to Italy.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

Re: Re:

How will the points be worked out for the climbs?

In the same way the points are worked out in other gt´s. I actually don't know how that works but as far as I know its normal that mountain points are given to the riders in time trials.

It's normally done with the Time Splits. So it's probably best to get rid of the Time spits, and just put them with the climbs.

 

[Eshnar]

The time has come for my race design challenge, people!

The idea is fairly simple. As you surely know, the 2017 Giro will be in fact the 100th edition. As such, everyone expects a route which has to be "meaningful" for the history and tradition of the Giro and/or Italy itself.

You'll have to design your own 100th Giro.

The rules are the following:
- Start and finish must be placed in Italy
- Can't have more than 2 stages abroad
- All the stupid UCI constraints are in effect. I want a believable route. If you need, you can ask the jury for an exception.
- Transfers of more than 75 kms can be made only during rest days

The jury:
- I'll be part of it
- I'm looking for a couple more members. If you want to apply, just send me a PM. I will announce the jury as soon as it is decided.
- Keep in mind that jury members will not compete, so if you wanna design a Giro, you can't be part of the jury

The competition:
Every participant will post one stage every other day. The jury will assign points to the best routes the day after each round. This system will hopefully encourage people to care about the progression of their stages and prevent overly backloaded routes. And it will add suspence to the competition The points to be assigned will increase in the third week, and the last votation will have the highest number of points to assign. But even so, you don't want to fall back at the beginning.

I will post more details once I have a better idea of how many members are participating.

If you want to participate as a contestant, sign up on this thread or PM me. I will keep a list of players in this post.

The showcase will start on Monday, August 3rd, when all players will have to post their stage 1 (the deadline will be at midnight UTC time). On Tuesday 4th the jury will assign the first points, and on the 5th it'll be time for stage 2 and so on.

You basically have the whole tdf to plan your route Good luck!

 

[Gigs_98]

god damnit I don't know if I have the time for this. I am on holidays in the next two weeks so it would be difficult to design a giro

 

[Eshnar]

Starting date is negotiable If also other participants want more time, I may extend the deadline. Let's see first of all how many people are interested

 

[Gigs_98]

Tour de France stage 17: Bonneville - Verbier (152 km)

The first mountain stage of the alps and the last really hard mtf of the tour. After the start in Bonneville the first few kilometers are flat. However as soon as the first climb, the Cote de Chatillon, starts the stage gets really difficult. The second climb is the Col des Gets. This climb isn't used that often in the tour because there are two parallel passes, the col de ramaz and the col de joux plane. The reason why I used the climb in my route is because I don't want too many hard climbs before the finish, because in this stage the attention should lay on the last two ascents. After the descent there is an intermediate sprint in Saint Jean d'Aulpe. Shortly after this sprint the Col d Cobier, a steep 2nd category climb, starts. After the descent there is a pretty long false flat section which leads to the Pas de Morgins, which is located on the border to Switzerland. This pass is very difficult from the east side but pretty short and flat from the western french side, so its only 3rd category. The by far longest flat section of the stage follows, which gets finished with the second intermediate sprint in Martigny. From there on the stage gets really difficult again. The Col des Planches is the most difficult climb of the stage and IMO one of the most underused climbs of the alps.

Especially because the tour de suisse and the tour de romandie are in this area very often, its surprising that this climb has only been used once, in the queen stage of the 2014 tour de romandie (as far as I know it was only used once. Anyway its the only stage I found with this climb). After a difficult descent and a little, uncategorized bump the climb to verbier starts. In the last few years this climb became one of the most famous mtf´s of Switzerland, because it was used in the tour de suisse several times and also in the Tour de France 2009, when Alberto Contador won there, and made himself the leader of the Astana team, after he was only number two behind armstrong before. The climb isn't a monster and the time gaps here wouldn't be huge, but thats no problem. This is the last serious mtf of my tour so if someone really needs to get time, he has to attack there anyways. Moreover, stage 18 will be extremely hard, so I think that a too hard mtf would cost the riders so much energy that the action on the next stage could be killed.

Verbier:

climbs:
Cote de Chatillon (3rd cat.)
Col des Gets (2nd cat.)
Col du Cobier (2nd cat.)
Pas de Morgins (3rd cat.)
Col des Planches (1st cat.)
Verbier (1st cat.)

 

[Gigs_98]

Tour de France stage 18: Martigny - Bourg Saint Maurice (209 km)

The second Alps stage and this time a real monster. The stage starts in Martigny, which means we are still in Switzerland. However almost directly after the start the route heads westwards, which means the riders have to ride in the direction of the french border. The first climb on this way is the Col de la Forclaz, a very steep HC climb, which was used in last years criterium du dauphine, on the penultimate race day. After a short descent the pass Col des Montets starts, which leads the riders to france. The next 40 k´s will be mostly downhill with an intermediate sprint in Chamonix and a little 4th category climb up to Vaudagne as only highlights. After the end of the descent the longest flat section of the day starts. However this flat section gets interrupted by 4 famous alps passes which follow directly after each other:

I don't make a secret out of it, I love this Colombière-Aravis-Saisies-Roselend combination (normally I would even put the Col du Romme in front of the Colombière but I think the stage is hard enough ). The first climb is the Col de la Colombière. This pass was used many times in the tour, although the last time it was used lays back in 2010. I find it kind of funny that the ASO always rated this climb as a 1st category climb, because I really don't see any reason why it shouldn't be HC. Whatever, after the descent the riders pass Le Grand Bornand, where an intermediate sprint is located. The Col des Aravis is the next climb and by far the easiest one of these 4, which is the reason why its the only 2nd category climb of this day. Next up is the Col des Saisies. Although the south side is harder than the north side, which I use in this stage, this pass should still be a real challenge. If this stage would be raced very hard this is even the climb where the first gc contenders could fade, and if someone really has absolutely nothing to lose he might already attack here. The last climb of the day is the Cormet de Roselend. It is the longest climb of the day, but because of some flat sections and the fact that steep ramps over 10% are completely missing its only 1st category. Nevertheless, the combination of the Saisies and the Roselend should be hard enough to cause some serious time gaps. Moreover the next stage is pretty flat so the riders really can go all out, and some would even have to because after this stage there is only one more chance to create time gaps.

Bourg Saint Maurice:

climbs:
Col de la Forclaz (HC)
Col des Montets (3rd cat.)
Vaudagne (4th cat.)
Col de la Colombière (HC)
Col des Aravis (2nd cat.)
Col des Saisies (1st cat.)
Cormet de Roselend (1st cat.)

Edit:
I just noticed that the profiles are probably too small so I put links to the profiles in here.

 

[Burkni]

Re:

The time has come for my race design challenge, people!

Were the results from the Criterium International challenge ever published?

 

[Eshnar]

Re: Re:

The time has come for my race design challenge, people!

Were the results from the Criterium International challenge ever published?

actually I don't know. You should ask the organizer

 

[Gigs_98]

How much time do we have before the jury gets announced. Maybe I will apply to become part of it, but firstly I want to do a little bit of brain storming to find some good ideas for the race, to do a route myself. Only if I don't have good ideas I would apply for the jury

 

[Eshnar]

How much time do we have before the jury gets announced. Maybe I will apply to become part of it, but firstly I want to do a little bit of brain storming to find some good ideas for the race, to do a route myself. Only if I don't have good ideas I would apply for the jury

There is no deadline for the jury. Ofc it will be announced before the showcase starts.

 

[Gigs_98]

Tour de France stage 18: Bourg Saint Maurice - Saint Jean de Maurienne (179 km)

One would say this stage is a little bit lame, but I have to strongly disagree. This stage is extremely lame...
Well the truth is that I firstly planned to make another mountain stage to Saint Jean de Maurienne which went over the madeleine and the croix de fer, but shortly before I started to post this race I decided to cancel that stage because 4 mountain stages in a row are just too much. However I already designed the rest of the race and I also already had the profiles so I couldn't make everything new and had to make a short transitional stage from Bourg Saint Maurice to Saint Jean de Maurienne. Then I had the idea to make a round course (is that the right word for a lap based stage? I have no idea) with Lacets de Montvernier. I know many people don't like the hype around this climb but the setting and the profile are still very interesting and good, so I decided to make the course you can now see.
There isn't so much more to say about this stage. There is one more categorized climb up to Montnion, which is only 4th category, and there are two intermediate sprints in Albertville and in Saint Jean de Maurienne. Its hard to predict who would win this stage. Its the penultimate chance for sprinters but Lacets de Montvernier is probably too hard for some pure sprinters and the race would be extremely hard to control because attacks on the climbs would be guaranteed. Moreover its always hard for some sprinters when they already have two hard stages in their legs. So maybe its more likely that this stage would go to the break.

Lacets de Montvernier:

Saint Jean de Maurienne:

climbs:
Montnion (4th cat.)
Lacets de Montvernier (3rd cat.) x4

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

The time has come for my race design challenge, people!

The idea is fairly simple. As you surely know, the 2017 Giro will be in fact the 100th edition. As such, everyone expects a route which has to be "meaningful" for the history and tradition of the Giro and/or Italy itself.

You'll have to design your own 100th Giro.

The rules are the following:
- Start and finish must be placed in Italy
- Can't have more than 2 stages abroad
- All the stupid UCI constraints are in effect. I want a believable route. If you need, you can ask the jury for an exception.
- Transfers of more than 75 kms can be made only during rest days

In Italy!!! You are an evil so-and-so. Giving us a whole Tour to think up ideas for a GIRO. You of all people should know how almost limitless the possibilities are!!!

(PS I saw this on my lunchbreak at work and spend a large part of the afternoon daydreaming a route as a result... and I still haven't finished posting my last Giro... and there's still my post-Giro project to post...)

 

[May0maniac]

It would be my third Giro, so maybe I'll apply to become part of the jury.

 

[fauniera]

I usually don't have time to post on workdays, so i'm out. Nice idea, though.

 

[Eshnar]

I usually don't have time to post on workdays, so i'm out. Nice idea, though.

That's actually a problem Do you really have no time (not even in the evening/night)? In the end everybody would have a 24h window to post the stage.
How about we just modify the format? We could post three stages at a time, twice a week. This way the total duration of the game would be pretty much the same, but you would need to log in only twice a week.

 

[Eshnar]

Re:

It would be my third Giro, so maybe I'll apply to become part of the jury.

Application duly noted
I'll let you know. In the meantime, remember that as long as I don't announce the jury you can always change your mind and be a player Three Giro aren't nothing. I made at least 6 in this thread.