Race Design Thread

[Gigs_98]

Re:

The Giro I am developing concentrates a lot on the south of Italy too. It is possible to develop some really nice profiles down there. The problem is that I don't know if any of the roads are suitable for racing. I don't know how some of you guys manage to find the time to develop these routes. It is taking me ages and ages.

The only stage I am fully happy with is my first stage. All the others are just traced roughly.

You can watch huge parts of italian streets with google street view. That helps a lot if you don't know if a street is usable.

And to your question:
Before I make my routes I always think about what I want to achieve. For example in the case of my last tdf, my goal was to use all the 5 mountain ranges of france, and the alps as my last one. I quickly knew that I had to put the pyrenees in week one. Then I thought which climbs I could use in my vosges, central massiv and jura stages and then I tried to link these stages with transitional stages which aren't completely boring. The alps were quite easy because I know the climbs there, very well. Ofc, climb knowledge is also something really important. Thats also the reason why its much easier to design races in regions which are used quite often in gt's, because sides like quäl dich can give you a lot of information about the climbs there.

 

[GMiranda]

I am trying Cronoescalada.com, but it's failing to upload GPX files, they're all with the same altitude as the starting point. Anyone may help me?

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

I am trying Cronoescalada.com, but it's failing to upload GPX files, they're all with the same altitude as the starting point. Anyone may help me?

Maybe Emphasize is 0

 

[Nirvana]

Re: Re:

The Giro I am developing concentrates a lot on the south of Italy too. It is possible to develop some really nice profiles down there. The problem is that I don't know if any of the roads are suitable for racing. I don't know how some of you guys manage to find the time to develop these routes. It is taking me ages and ages.

You can check these roads via Google Streetview. Italy is completely covered, so it is possible to find out if there is asfalto or sterrato.

Know the past years stages is also very important, i've saved on my HDD all profiles of the past Giri since 2004 edition so i can find a lot of ideas from them. For example, as i said, the idea of my stage four went from the 2008 edition where stage two was from Cefalù to Agrigento but on a easier route, so, assuming that i want an harder race, i change the original valley based route searching climbs in the area.

And not only the past years Giri but also reces like Tirreno-Adriatico could give some interesting ideas, i've planned to include in my Giro one of two of this Tirreno hard hilltops.

 

[GMiranda]

Re: Re:

I am trying Cronoescalada.com, but it's failing to upload GPX files, they're all with the same altitude as the starting point. Anyone may help me?

Maybe Emphasize is 0

What's it?

 

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

I am trying Cronoescalada.com, but it's failing to upload GPX files, they're all with the same altitude as the starting point. Anyone may help me?

Maybe Emphasize is 0

What's it?

Where is the GPX export from? Openrunner? If it is from openrunner, did you save it as GPX (track) or GPX (route)? I think only the latter will work. Also, make sure it's not a .KML instead.

 

[GMiranda]

It's from MapMyRide

 

[BigMac]

Re:

It's from MapMyRide

Okay, I tried it and it doesn't work. Iirc MMR has had this problem since ever. My advice is using another site, openrunner seems like the best option as explained here before. The .GPX files work with Cronoescalada.

 

[GMiranda]

OK, Many Thanks

 

[GMiranda]

Problem is, how to use the walking mode in OpenRunner... in MapMyRide it was easier to switch between mode son the same stage

 

[BigMac]

Re:

Problem is, how to use the walking mode in OpenRunner... in MapMyRide it was easier to switch between mode son the same stage

Ah, I'm afraid you can't. In openrunner by switching mods it will mess up the entire segment and not just affect what you will map next.

 

[GMiranda]

yes, i saw that... so I'll have to stick to walking mode

 

[Steven Roots]

Thanks for the comment barmaher. And i didnt forced him to do so.
(Is your bank account number still the same ? )

Stage 13 : Alès - Le Vigan, 251km.

If you use GoogleMaps, the ride between these two cities will be barely longer than 65km.
But not today. Once again, we're going to be in a region forgotten by the Tour.
ASO will tragically finish in Mende every other year rather than use the Cévennes.
And thats incredibly sad considering how beautiful the area is, and how demanding the roads and the terrain are.

Despite being quite populated (over 40K inhabitants !) and right at the entrance of a mountain chain, Alès received the Tour...only twice (1957 and 1991).

Le Vigan is a brand new stop, but with close to 4.000 inhabitants, and the subprefecture status, it shouldnt be any problem.

Alès is in fact a particular case, as it was a mainly mining town that seriously declined (as the industry did), its one of the few decent-sized cities in France to actually have lost population since the inter-war period.

Anyway, this stage is going to be horribly difficult to control, and thats the perfect occasion to trap stronger riders.
We have a total of 14 climbs registered to the mountains classification, and basically, there will be no flat whatsoever once we leave Alès.
It is really the best chance for outsiders to dynamite the race. If that stage starts quickly...there will be riders all over the road.

The first climb of the day, the Col d'Uglas will be the only one to already have seen the Tour, once in 1960.
And then, its the roller coaster. It just wont stop as we'll move across the gardons, these are in fact the name of the little rivers that will eventually merge to create the Gard.

As we move to the top, on the crest, then down to the river and the next hill is already right there. And do it again...over and over, through the forest...
The first 70km are going to be that way, twisty and narrow roads, of sub-par quality, yet good enough for racing, until the Cap de Coste. Not that the climb is difficult, but we're changing our direction from that point to the North, following the Herault until Notre-Dame-de-la-Rouvière.

Now, fun time is over. The Col de Peyrefiche is the first proper test. The quality of the road is...far from perfect, the state of the sign speaks for itself as for the number of people living in the vicinity.

The bottom is relatively easy, but the last 2km are severely harder, over 11%.

After a quick break, possibly not even long enough to go the bathroom, we're then beginning with the toughest climb of the day : The Col de la Lusette.

We're in fact starting from Mandagout, so thats not the bottom of it, but its not a big deal as the hardest part is in front of us. We have a brutal 5km section over 9.5% until Cap de Côte, very average road, the summit is cooler for the legs, but the peloton will surely be torn apart after doing those climbs back to back.

We'll then descend (tricky one, watch out Thibaut P.) all the way to le Vigan.

We'll avoid the finish for now, and go west to the Col de Mouzoulès, relatively short, but going steeper and steeper, the last 2km are over 8.5%. The descent is seriously technical. Thibaut P. now cries.
Next on the route, the Col de Campviel, probably the easiest of the day, quite rolling, in order to reach the Causse de Blandas.
After the twisty little roads of the mountain to begin (and end) the stage, thats a change.
The Causses are really special places with their emptyness, those plateaux being often desolate. No, that's not New Mexico.

And thats not over.

The next climb is done over the glorious Cirque de Navacelles, the view is fantastic.

It is short and difficult, but that one is surely worth the trip ! (Yes, we're using the road we're seeing in front of us.)
After the descent, since we're sadistic, we'll go right over the causse once again, from Madières, into the Côte du Cros.

The road is in good shape, and we move back into the outskirts of le Vigan, with Montdardier on the way.

And like earlier, we'll make a short detour west. The Col d'Esparon, awaits, the last wall of the race with 3km at 9%.

The race could have been finished by now, but the Col des Mourèzes will be featured in the very last loop, its not as difficult as the others, but i did not want to keep a very tough climb as the last one.

Thats 14 climbs over 251km of racing. If the Granon stage was all about making it as hard as possible, this one is about making it as tricky as possible.

This stage should be awful for the leaders as they're possibly going to be by themselves for a long time, and your talent and legs, although they're mandatory considering the difficulty of the route, wont be enough here.
You'll have to use your brain.

 

[Brullnux]

Great stage

 

[Gigs_98]

thats how all central massive stages should look like

 

[GMiranda]

and does Strava works?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Something along these lines should probably be a one-day "Tour des Cevennes" autumn semi-Classic, for either Worlds and/or Lombardia tuneup.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

Something along these lines should probably be a one-day "Tour des Cevennes" autumn semi-Classic, for either Worlds and/or Lombardia tuneup.

I think you post this comment every time someone posts a good medium mountain stage

 

[Steven Roots]

I guess thats a positive comment. We'll take it. I am often disappointed by the route through the Massif Central, and i perfectly know that this one will never happen until i am promoted.

Stage 14 : Lodève - Carcassonne, 138km.

Both cities already received the Tour after 2000, so no problem there.
Lodève is like Alès, a city placed right at the entry of the Massif Central, and to be more accurate, at the entry of the Causse de Larzac.

But we're not going north today, we're going south, and we will basically go through the Haut-Languedoc.

This explains the presence of several passes after the mid-way point of the stage, but only the hardest of the three, which are consecutive, will be registered for the mountains classification.
The other ones are more like 5th category-level, they are real, they're not difficult enough to count, but there will be fatigue on the legs.
We'll pass right by the Montagne Noire, on small and twisty roads. Another area unfortunately untouched by the Tour.

That will be a difficult moment for the fattest sprinters, but as the rest of the stage is flat, you can say that this time, they will have to work for it.
There is only 20km to do after the descent, and as the stage is not that long itself, its difficult to predict any scenario. The breakaway can succeed, the sprinters are in a good position as well.
A slovak guy with a good team can put pressure for a green jersey here for instance.

The finish will be done right under the medieval city of Carcassonne.

A fantastic place, especially for history aficionados, and i must say that the kid i was when i visited that place was quite impressed.

 

[CasperVg]

Re:

yes, i saw that... so I'll have to stick to walking mode

You can also make the route with MapMyRide, export it as (elevationless) GPX there. Then upload that GPX file to GPS Visualizer and ask it to export to GPX. That exported GPX file will have altitude information that Cronoescalada can use.

 

[May0maniac]

Österreich-Rundfahrt Stage 1: Dornbirn - Zirl; 200km

I've decided to create another Österreich-Rundfahrt.
The last one started in Vienna, this one starts in Dornbirn, the largest town in Vorarlberg mostly known for hosting pretty large fairs.
The race will be hard right from the beginning, the first Climb Bödele starts in Dornbirn, 8,2km at 8,6% with a max. gradient of 14% (If Dornbirn ever hosts a Wc you could create a hellish circuit with Bödele and Lorenapass, 4,1km at 10,8% with 15% steep ramps, Lorenapass also starts right after the Bödele descent so it would be pretty easy to connect those 2 climbs).
After the descent we have 22km of false flat, then the next climb starts, Hochtannbergpass, 13km at 7%, but it's an irregular climb with multiple over 10% steep ramps on the 2nd half of the climb. After a short descent we have Flexenpass, 6,5km at 4,4%, and Arlbergpass, 2,9km at 5,7%, on both climbs we are using the easier sides, they shouldn't be a problem for the riders and will bring us arcoss the tyrolean border.
After a steep descent we have a long stretch of false flat, almost 33km before the next climb starts.
It's another hard climb, Piller Höhe, 7km at 10,2% with a max gradient of 20%, a real legbreaker. The following descent is long and gentle, after reaching Imst we have 14km of false flat before Holzleitensattel starts, 7km at 4,5% with a 10% steep ramp, a relatively easy climb. The long and gentle descent will bring the riders down to Telfs, a market town with about 15.000 inhabitants mostly known for having a mosque and a minaret, there was lots of drama when they built the minaret in 2006, you can probably imagine that.
After only 3km of false flat the final climb of the stage starts, Möserer Sattel, 7,3km at 7,9% with many 12% steep ramps, the final 4,2km are at 9,2%. On top of the Möserer Sattel we have 8km that are more of a false flat than an actual descent before the final 4km long steep descent that will bring the riders down to Zirl starts.
This will be pretty hard for stage 1, I really don't know how it will play out, but the steep hard climbs should do some damage, at worst we'll get a reduced sprint between the gc-contenders and a few riders who really shine in the hilly classics.
Dornbrin:

Zirl:

 

[Steven Roots]

Stage 15 : Limoux - Andorre(Arinsal), 156km.

This is the most unsurprising stage since i've already said that i needed to reach Andorra for a break day. Since the first one is already behind us...we're left with only one.
The destination was already known, but i tried to make it somewhat fresh in the route.
Which is not that hard considering the uninspired decisions about the last trips of the Tour to Andorra.


Limoux (over 10K inhabitants) is perfectly placed to start the first pyrenean stage when coming from the east, yet, no stage of that sort was ever done.

We'll start with a set of small but tiring climbs, through the Massif de Tabe, with 4 ascents registered for the mountains classification in barely more than 40 km, they're not steep, but as the relapse between them is minimal, that will be more difficult than it seems.
Speaking of tiring, lets introduce the next climb : the Port d'Envalira. Probably the only one sure to be actually there next year.

Its awfully long, its the highest pass of the Pyrénées, and as it is a national road, it looks more like an autopista than a real climb.

Still, that is tiring anyway, and we're now in Andorra.
The land of the dead-end, among other things, but we managed to have a pass before the last ascent.

The Collada de Beixalis is probably the newest add to the collection of andorran passes, the road being paved recently. So recently i cant find any profile for the climb. Anyway, it is perfectly placed in front of Andorra-la-Vella, and it is steep.
Relatively short, but once we reach Vila, it is seriously steep, as we're coming from the east, which is, i believe, the harder side. Over 8% in average (6.4km long), thats a perfect fit in order to make the main group explode after the awfully long Port d'Envalira.
To finish the stage, we've picked the ski station of Arinsal. As of course, the gradients are unfriendly up there.

Officially, the climb is the same ballpark in terms of difficulty as Beixalis, we're starting from the mid-way point, but the last 5km are the worst.

With the break day next, that should be the perfect chance for small climbers to get rid of the fatter ones, as carrying their rear-end up on these roads might be a problem for Geneva's convention.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

My last race was long ago. That was the San Fransisco Worlds. And I did promise a Tour of Britain following on from that. However, I that was before the Giro, and watching cycling has meant that it passed over my head. But I shall revive my envolvement of creating races to be crammed into this thread with a brand new race. Not the Tour of Britain, as promised a while ago, but the 'Le Londres Paris'. A stage race that UKIP will no doubt want to get rid of.

Anyway. If you don't just follow road racing, then you will have heard of Hot Chillee. They organise a number of annual events dubbed 'Professional events for Amateurs'. These include the Cape Rouleur in South Africa, the Alpine challenge in (yep you guessed it!) the Alps and the London to Paris ride in Kent in Northern France. The London to Paris is what this stage race is based on. Whereas the original amateur event is over three days (One in britain, Two in France) the 2.1 level event takes place over Six days (Three in Britain, Three in France). With it being a 2.1 level stage race, it means there would be involvment from a few of the british, french and belgium conti teams. In the first edition, these would be all the british conti teams (JLT Condor, Madison Genesis, NFTO, ONE Pro Cycling,Team Raleigh and Team Wiggins), all the french conti teams (Auber 93, Armee de Terre, Roubaix Lille Metropolle and Team Marseille 13 KTM) and a belgian conti team (Team 3M). The Pro-conti teams would be the Europcar, Cofidis, Bretagne Seche, Topsport Vlaanderen, Wanty and Roompot. The World Tour teams would be Sky, FDJ, AG2R and Ettix.

Londres Paris Prologue: 3km

Time Split:
Birdcage Walk: 1.4km

Climbs:
None

We start the whole race with the team presenations and prologue start hut in Horse Guards Parade before heading out to Trafalgar Square then down past the Cenotaph. A ride past the Houses of Parliamentand onto Birdcage Walk. They will then pass infront of Buckingham Palace to finish on the Mall rather like the photo of the 2007 Tour Prologue.



Londres Paris Stage 1: 120km Londres - Box Hill National Trust

Climbs:
Ranmore Common
Leith Hill
Box Hill
Boar Hill
Box Hill National Trust (HTF)

Primes:
Hampton Court Palace
Dorking

Feed Zone:
Ranmore Common Road

We start a new day on the Mall and head out through the London suberbs to Richmond Park. The race will head to the sprint at Hampton Court Palace. They will head into Surrey for the rest of the stage and ride Ranmore Common and Leith Hill. Then its into Dorkingfor the sprint. Then they climb Box Hill. A ride on unchartered territory interms of pro cycle racing comes next as the climb over Boar Lane is tackled. Once again through Dorking before climbing box Hill to the national trust site.

The Mall:

Box Hill:

 

[Eshnar]

I'll post it here too just to make sure everybody reads it. Only one week to the start of my challenge, people!
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=1794089#p1794089

 

[May0maniac]

Österreichrundfahrt stage 2: Innsbruck - Mittersill; 160,9km

After a hard stage 1 we have an easy stage for the sprinters. The only climb of the day is the stunning but easy Pass Thurn,most of it is just false flat, only the final 6km are at 4,8%.
The race starts in the beautiful town Innsbruck and ends in Mittersill, a stown in Oberpinzgau/Salzburg. Like I said, an easy stage for the sprinters, so there's not much to talk about.
Pass Thurn:

Innsbruck:

Mittersill: