Race Design Thread

[Libertine Seguros]

For those counting at home, that's 139km of time trial in Bavarianrider's GT, and we're not at the halfway stage yet.

On the plus side, he's already incurred the UCI's ire by having two stages over 240km and 2 TTs of 60km or more, even if he did keep them happy by having a very, very flat first week.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Stage 11

Zwiesel-Munich 172km

We are leaving the Bavarian Forest and head to the capital of Bavaria. Anything else then a bunch sprint would be a suprise. But big mountains are already looming ahead

 

[Bavarianrider]

For those counting at home, that's 139km of time trial in Bavarianrider's GT, and we're not at the halfway stage yet.

On the plus side, he's already incurred the UCI's ire by having two stages over 240km and 2 TTs of 60km or more, even if he did keep them happy by having a very, very flat first week.

It's 59.56 something
Cutting one of the flat stages by a few kilometres wouldn't be a problem if nesecary.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Stage 12

Munich- Berchdesgarden(Obersalzberg/Kehlsteinstraße) 155km

A super tough HC Mountain finish is waiting for the riders.

9.8 km a 11,7% average

Certainly this climb is up there with the Zoncolan or the Angliru.
Pure climbers will try to win back time today.
As the final climb is the only big climb of the day, rolleurs will give it all on teh final climb and try to limit the time gaps.
For those interested in history. The satge ends in the area were Hitler had his famous "Berghof", his summer residence.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Stage 14
So i have decided to skip the Nebelhorn TT. It's maybe a bit to extreme and with Kehlstein and Kitzbühler Horn, the race has to super steep finishes anyway.


Kitzbühel-Garmisch Partenkirchen 226km
So no it's a normal stage following the Deutsche Alpenstraße most of the time.
It's a day for a break away. There shouldn't happen much in the GC.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

That's practically Scanuppia territory. Don't see why you couldn't do a road stage finishing at the Fellhorn over the road instead - 8,8km, 9,7%, and actually possible to race on.

Surprised you've put these as midweek stages too - you'd think you'd want to put two pure HC mountain stages on at the weekend for maximum audience?

 

[CasperVg]

Looks epic indeed.. interesting idea, a mountain "prologue"

 

[Bavarianrider]

That's practically Scanuppia territory. Don't see why you couldn't do a road stage finishing at the Fellhorn over the road instead - 8,8km, 9,7%, and actually possible to race on.

Surprised you've put these as midweek stages too - you'd think you'd want to put two pure HC mountain stages on at the weekend for maximum audience?

I don't think a road stage finish at the Felhorn would work for space reasons and so on.
Nebelhorn is racable.
It's summer holidays in Bavaria. So there should be enough spectators.

 

[roundabout]

Why not climb the Rossfeld panoramastrasse before the stage to Kehlstein? Ok, first 3 km or so of the last climb won't be done but there would be a legitimate big climb before and the stage will be longer than the U23 length.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Stage 15

Oberstdorf---Konstanz 150km

After two tough mountain days, after a climb right at the start todays stage ofers some relief for the peleton. We will probably see a bunch sprint in Konstanz.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I don't think a road stage finish at the Felhorn would work for space reasons and so on.
Nebelhorn is racable.
It's summer holidays in Bavaria. So there should be enough spectators.

There's plenty of room at the Bergstation. Certainly as much space there as there is at the summit of Peña Cabarga.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Rest day in Konstanz
Stage 16

Konstanz-Kandel 218km

A tough day in the Schwarzwald crownd by a tough mountain finish on the Kandel. 11km a 8.2% average. Climbers will try everything to gain as much time as possible.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Your mountain stages are pretty good.

But do you realise that you just put a mountain stage on the Thursday of week 2, a mountain ITT on the Friday of week 2, then a flat stage on the Saturday and a rest day on the Sunday, before going back to mountaintop finishes on the Monday?

Some of the stages are really good, I'm just completely baffled by your pacing.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Your mountain stages are pretty good.

But do you realise that you just put a mountain stage on the Thursday of week 2, a mountain ITT on the Friday of week 2, then a flat stage on the Saturday and a rest day on the Sunday, before going back to mountaintop finishes on the Monday?

Some of the stages are really good, I'm just completely baffled by your pacing.

I admit it semms haven't thought about timimg properly.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I admit it semms haven't thought about timimg properly.

You could always, since they're just riding from the same place you finished stage 14 at, hold the Kandel stage on the Sunday then have the rest day on the Monday, like we often see in GTs.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Right know i am considering to include another mountain stage between the Kehlstein and the Nebelhorn stage. I am thinking of the Kitzbühler Horn. I am not sure yet though.

 

[Armchair cyclist]

Attn Admins:

Should this not be on the Fantasy/games forum? It has nothing to do with real races being ridden by professionals.

 

[Gloin22]

If this thread goes to fantasy forums, its going to dissapear soon and the attention it gets now will dissapear too, and its quite exciting thread to read too. Would be bad mistake to move it to the other sub-forum.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Stage 13

Berchdesgarden-Kitzbühler Horn (Austria) 124km

I decided to fill in another stage between the Kehlstein and the Nebelhorn Stage. This gives the climbers one more tough mountain to shine!
It's a short stage, but a stage with a very heavy ending! Riders have to go up the Kitzbühler Horn! And unlike in the Tour of Austria riders really have to go all the way up. Like on the Kehlstein stage there's no major mountain before the final stage. This might give non pure climbers a chance to limithir time loses on this steep mountain!

 

[Bavarianrider]

Stage 17

Offenbach --- Frankfurt/Mammolshainer Berg 220km

It's an all flat stage but at the last 2 kilometres there's yet another steep suprise for the riders. The stage finishes on top of the Mamolsahiner Berg. A steep road in Mamolshain, a suberb of Frankfurt.
There are sections of more then 20% on the last km. A punchy finisher like Gilbert should win this.
As it is so steep some smaller gaps will open for the GC. Some guys will certainly lose some seconds!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I know the Frankfurt area, the Taunus climbs and the Mammolshainer Berg very well. Horrible, horrible little climb, pitches of up to 26%. I'm kind of assuming that the finish itself would have to be in Königsstein, giving a short amount of less steep uphill pitch on the way in to the line, but I hope you're planning to use a bit more of the Taunus mountains on the next stage since they have more than just the Mammolshain to offer...

 

[roundabout]

While the time and effort put into this route is very much appreciated and I am curious what the remaining stages will be it seems that Germany doesn't really have the terrain for a great 3-week race.

 

[Armchair cyclist]

If this thread goes to fantasy forums, its going to dissapear soon and the attention it gets now will dissapear too, and its quite exciting thread to read too. Would be bad mistake to move it to the other sub-forum.

Regardless, it is not what should be in this thread. The same could be said of any other thread, in which case the entire reason for multiple boards is negated.

If it brings more traffic to the other one, so much the better.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

While the time and effort put into this route is very much appreciated and I am curious what the remaining stages will be it seems that Germany doesn't really have the terrain for a great 3-week race.

I have to say I'm surprised by the route. I would have done it anticlockwise, because then you could go through the Eifel mountains and Taunus mountains (small hills, Ardennes-style, with the occasional larger climb like the Feldberg), then moving down into the Schwarzwald using mountains like the Kandel, Zuflucht and Rappeneck, before finishing off with the Alpine climbs such as Fellhorn and Kehlstein, before having the finish with an ITT in Munich. I feel that Bavarianrider has probably done a better job of using his home area than I ever would, but then he knows the area better than I do.

I am disappointed that in his stage through Sachsen, there was no finish at or close to Meerane, for I would definitely have put in a circuit including a couple of short climbs of which the Steile Wand von Meerane would be the last:

Average 12%, highest 22%, savage cobbled killer.

 

[Bavarianrider]

I have to say I'm surprised by the route. I would have done it anticlockwise, because then you could go through the Eifel mountains and Taunus mountains (small hills, Ardennes-style, with the occasional larger climb like the Feldberg), then moving down into the Schwarzwald using mountains like the Kandel, Zuflucht and Rappeneck, before finishing off with the Alpine climbs such as Fellhorn and Kehlstein, before having the finish with an ITT in Munich. I feel that Bavarianrider has probably done a better job of using his home area than I ever would, but then he knows the area better than I do.

I am disappointed that in his stage through Sachsen, there was no finish at or close to Meerane, for I would definitely have put in a circuit including a couple of short climbs of which the Steile Wand von Meerane would be the last:

Average 12%, highest 22%, savage cobbled killer.

I don't say this is a perfect route or something. It's more of a first try. Winter is long I am not reall satisfied with the route too. At least there's room for improvement