Race Design Thread

[Libertine Seguros]

Second time around for me posting some stage races, second time in a not-exactly-unexpected place.

There is already a version of this race, but it lasts but three days and is only for amateurs; I'm looking at beefing it up a bit for the pros. So, here it is, the Vuelta a Navarra (or Nafarroako Itzulia if you'd prefer).

It is perhaps the last thing people would expect of yours truly, but I'm starting off with a - pause, swallow, try to compose oneself and overcome the torrent of shame overwhelming me - flat stage.

Stage 1: Sangüesa - Muniáin de la Solana, 140km

Though there are a couple of smallish climbs that can break the group up, there is more than enough time to bring everything back together again.

Climbs:
Puerto de San Isidro del Pinar (cat.3), 3,1km @ 4,1%
Alto de Funes (cat.3), 3,8km @ 4,1%

The main reasoning behind this is that the southern half of Navarre is flat, but prone to becoming very hot, and large areas are very exposed, and this could be a punishing stage even at such a short length. The finish is on a circuit that includes a small climb into Dicastillo, followed by the run-in, which is mostly easy but for a very tricky set of corners about 500m from the line. There is then a short stretch on very poor roads before the drag back up to Dicastillo.

Nevertheless this should be one for the fast men to have their fun, even though the drag may derail the occasional train and the tricky corners - including a hairpin - may allow a lone forager to foil the bunch.

Sangüesa:

Muniáin de la Solana:

 

[Tank Engine]

OK, I'm not sure how to do the fancy profiles or maps, or embed pictures (if anyone can advise I'll try and edit), but I saw something saying GB might bid for the World Championships the other day, and it got me thinking about a fantasy world champs course in my hometown Bristol.

I reckon you could start next to the harbourside on Anchor Road, go up St Michael's Hill - which is about a kilometer that must be around 10% average gradient, with (considerably) steeper sections, through Clifton and across the Suspension bridge, then loop around the top of Ashton Court park (This is all fairly flat ) before the descent round the South of the Park (which is probably about three/four kilometers at an average of about -8% and not particularly technical).

Then back up Rownham Hill to the bridge - there's a link to a Strava profile below which says its 9% average with 16-17% section. Once you cross back into Bristol proper, turn left and descend down onto the Portway, which takes you underneath the Suspension bridge and back onto Anchor Road for the start finish - I reckon it's about 20 kilometers a lap, so eight laps, 16 kilometers of proper climbing, about 25 kilometers of fast descending, and the rest flat, all with a beautiful/historic back drop.

There might be a problem with using the bridge in two directions (and more to the point the approach roads, as the bridge itself is naturally split into two carriageways) especially if the field splits, but assuming you could overcome that I reckon it would be fantastic - no idea who would win either!

Some context:

Here's a map I made http://friendfit.com/routeview.php?rtnum=75596&from=fitblog

A photo of St Michaels Hill http://www.yourlocalweb.co.uk/images/pictures/16/38/st-michaels-hospital-161360.jpg)

A profile of the second climb http://www.strava.com/segments/rownham-hill-short-bristol-670831

Some images of the Suspension Bridge: http://www.google.co.uk/search?tbm=...1634l2774l0l4191l11l8l0l0l0l0l162l969l2.6l8l0

Ah.. takes me back to my student days. Would make a great circuit. Libertine's Tour of the French Basque region would be beautiful (countryside and racing). I'm away at the moment, but I'll try and design a Tour of the Cambrian Mountains (the ascent of the Bwlch y Groes from the south would be a certainty, last 1.5k is around 16%, did it in the summer from the easy north side ). Possibly a tour of the Knockmealdowns/Galtees in the south of Ireland.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Of course, my generosity to the men whose riding their bikes entertains me couldn't last, and we're back to the norm.

Stage 2: Morentin - Salinas de Oro, 153km

The first trips into the mountains for the péloton, finishing with a final run-in familiar to those who know of the amateur Vuelta a Navarra, the short downhill into Salinas de Oro after cresting the Alto d'Etxauri.

Climbs:
Puerto de Urbasa (cat.1) 9,0km @ 4,6%
Puerto de Lizarraga (cat.1) 9,3km @ 5,4%
Puerto de Guembe (cat.2) 6,1km @ 5,1%
Alto d'Etxauri (cat.1) 6,9km @ 6,4%

None of these climbs are especially arduous, though estimates of the actual climb of Lizarraga vary from 9,3km @ 5,4% as quoted above to 9,0km @ 6,1%. Either way, the long and gradual descents and short flat sections should ensure that all of the main candidates for the GC arrive at Etxauri together ready for the short duel on the final climb.

The final climb (with bizarrely Hispanicized name):

In reality, I expect this to trim the group down to a small bunch but not break everything apart too much; we will be most likely to have a sprint from the GC contenders when we pass the salt mines and finish in the small town of Salinas de Oro:

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Stage 3: Zizur Mayor - Goizueta, 174km

Starting with a trip through the outskirts of Pamplona, this stage begins off undulating, with a couple of medium-sized climbs. As we head towards the business end of the race, a long descent is followed by the drag up to the Puerto de Ezkurra, before descending into the Basque-Navarrese stronghold of Goizueta, finishing with a short but very steep (up to 20%) and narrow uphill scrap just to the north of the town that should favour a puncheur who has been able to hold on on the gradual but continual climbs earlier in the day, but also allow the contenders for the GC to fight for vital seconds and open up potentially decisive gaps.

Climbs:
Tunel de Aoiz (cat.3) 2,2km @ 5,6%
Puerto de Meskiritz (cat.3) 4,1km @ 3,5%
Puerto de Egozkue (cat.2) 5,5km @ 5,5%
Puerto de Belate (cat.3) 6,5km @ 3,9%
Puerto de Ezkurra (cat.2) 8,8km @ 3,6%
Goizueta (Subida Final)(cat.2) 1,4km @ 9,5%

Zizur Mayor:

Goizueta:

The hill on the right there is where the finish will be.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

The tour of Cornwall

Has a pro peloton ever ridden in Cornwall?

A little excitement's fine, but 200 riders on Cornish roads would be mental. Constant up and downs, constant sharp bends, often one after another, ie. you'll get a 20% descent and, right at the bottom, you'll get a 90 deg. turn. The roads are narrow and usually bordered by stone fences, with no grass verges in between. Cornwall's wet and windy and, quite frequently, fairly heavily wooded, so you get stretches of roads where you cannot see anything beyond an upcoming bend.

Honestly, I can't think of more dangerous place for a peloton to ride.

 

[El Pistolero]

Has a pro peloton ever ridden in Cornwall?

A little excitement's fine, but 200 riders on Cornish roads would be mental. Constant up and downs, constant sharp bends, often one after another, ie. you'll get a 20% descent and, right at the bottom, you'll get a 90 deg. turn. The roads are narrow and usually bordered by stone fences, with no grass verges in between. Cornwall's wet and windy and, quite frequently, fairly heavily wooded, so you get stretches of roads where you cannot see anything beyond an upcoming bend.

Honestly, I can't think of more dangerous place for a peloton to ride.

Sounds perfect.

 

[User Guide]

revenge is a dish best served cold

Zomegan's revenge
giro queen stage Bolzano to San Genesio 6800m of climbing..taking in San pellegrino passo rolle passo levaze amongst others finishing on possibly hardest climb that could be included in a grand tour...
http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/53499830/?open_ive_done=1&new_route=1
profile of finish.....
http://www.climbbybike.com/profile.asp?Climbprofile=San-Genesio---Edelweiss&MountainID=3498

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Sounds perfect.

I'm not joking, it would be carnage. They scare me in my car, driving at 40kph.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Zomegan's revenge
giro queen stage Bolzano to San Genesio 6800m of climbing..taking in San pellegrino passo rolle passo levaze amongst others finishing on possibly hardest climb that could be included in a grand tour...
http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/53499830/?open_ive_done=1&new_route=1
profile of finish.....
http://www.climbbybike.com/profile.asp?Climbprofile=San-Genesio---Edelweiss&MountainID=3498

So that's, in order: Passo Nigra, Costalunga, Passo San Pellegrino (PS you lose points from me for not going north to Arabba and climbing the - admittedly easier - other side of Passo Fedaia), Forcella Aurine, Passo di Cereda, Passo Rolle, Passo Lavazè, Passo Nigra and then San Genesio?

 

[User Guide]

So that's, in order: Passo Nigra, Costalunga, Passo San Pellegrino (PS you lose points from me for not going north to Arabba and climbing the - admittedly easier - other side of Passo Fedaia), Forcella Aurine, Passo di Cereda, Passo Rolle, Passo Lavazè, Passo Nigra and then San Genesio?

I wont even begin to pretend I know all the names but yes , north side of the loop first.Also looked on google earth and after San Genesio is a white road of 3-4km @5% that leads too Frassinetto with a good road too descend, so San Genesio could be used as a pass.

 

[bicing]

I eagerly await the Amgen Tour of Romania presented by Jens Attacks where every team has to have a minimum of 3 failed dope tests between them and every stage is an mtf.

For Romania I'd do a single day race, not stage, and it would be the first to be a mountain one day race.

TRANSFAGARASAN.
From Pitesti to Brasov.

Total length about 260 kms, thre would be about 2 cat 2 clims and 2-3 cat 4s. The big one would come after about 60kms of flat racing, just past the lovely lakeside road. The climb is a steady 0-4% gradient for the first 12-15 kms before a final 10 kms with gradients of either 4%, 8%, 11% or flat. This goes on untl a brief respite in the last 2 kms, except for the last 500m which are above 20%.

There is a descent before another 60-70km of flats. It would have been super to have it as a MTF but its in the middle of nowhere. Its OK because while the grupetto will most definitely catch back on, it won't end in a sprint.

Heading towards Brasov after the leaving the beautiful road, where it starts to resemble the hill terrain that is synonymous with one day racing. At 220kms it begns wih some speedbump hills, at 240 km there would be a 6 km climb. A couple more tiny hills follow. This creates opporunities for many attacks.

Another defining characteristic of this race would be the descent in the last 5 km of the race, where the elevation plummets a few hundred metres in the space of 3kms. This allows gutsy riders a head start on the main contenders before a Fleche/AGR style finish 2kms at 17% into Brasov.

Would love to put profiles up, and had them allready but my computer crashed and lost them.

 

[iwasonbwh]

Has a pro peloton ever ridden in Cornwall?

A little excitement's fine, but 200 riders on Cornish roads would be mental. Constant up and downs, constant sharp bends, often one after another, ie. you'll get a 20% descent and, right at the bottom, you'll get a 90 deg. turn. The roads are narrow and usually bordered by stone fences, with no grass verges in between. Cornwall's wet and windy and, quite frequently, fairly heavily wooded, so you get stretches of roads where you cannot see anything beyond an upcoming bend.

Honestly, I can't think of more dangerous place for a peloton to ride.

I'll be honest my post on the first page has something the same with a few helligen a dirt road and a grandstand finish it would be wonderful

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Time for the queen stage here.

Stage 4: Leitza - Santuário de San Miguel de Áralar, 164km

A saw-toothed profile featuring a brief foray early in the stage into País Vasco (repaying them for continually using Leitza - where we're starting today - and Lekunberri - where there is an intermediate sprint on the stage - in their race), before three loops of a circuit with 2 climbs on it, before travelling down to the final mountain finish.

Climbs:
Gaztelu (cat.2), 4,2km @ 5,9%
Puerto de Azpiroz (Betelu)(cat.2) 6,9km @ 5,1%
Puerto de Huici (cat.2), 4,8km @ 6,7%
Puerto de Azpiroz (Azpirotz)(cat.3), 4,8km @ 3,8%
Puerto de Huici (cat.2), 4,8km @ 6,7%
Puerto de Azpiroz (Azpirotz)(cat.3), 4,8km @ 3,8%
Puerto de Huici (cat.2), 4,8km @ 6,7%
Zugargarate (cat.3), 7,2km @ 2,9%
Santuário de San Miguel de Áralar (cat.1), 11,2km @ 8,1%

This final climb is one that they have been talking about the possibility of using in the Vuelta lately; it's relatively steep, and for much of the way it is concreted rather than paved, much like Bola del Mundo (although not as steep).

The road:

However, it isn't so much a brute with killer gradients as it is just consistently up at around 8-9%, so it's the switchbacks and the surface that will prove the biggest killer:

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Leitza, the host of the depart, is a Basque stronghold within Navarre, and the hometown of Mikel Nieve:

Santuário de San Miguel de Áralar:

 

[Libertine Seguros]

And so we finish how we started:

Stage 5: Etxarri-Aranatz - Egüés, 155km

Yes, it's another flat stage, the final stage of the Vuelta Profissional a Navarra, starting from the base of the previous day's killer climb, and riding along to Egüés, the small industrial town that Abarcá Sports (and Vladimir Karpets) call home. The only real obstacle is the other side of yesterday's penultimate climb, the Zugargarate, after that it's simply rolling until we get to the circuits of Egüés.

Climbs:
Zugargarate (cat.2), 7,0km @ 4,6%
Alto de Beruete (cat.3), 2,8km @ 4,6%
Puerto de Ilundáin (cat.3), 7,0km @ 3,2%

Etxarri-Aranatz:

Egüés:

 

[Siriuscat]

Bored on Night shift, thought I'd have a bash...

Stonehaven to Cairngorm, Aviemore, 99.7miles/160.4 KM

Climbs
1 - Slug Road - Long easy climb 10.45km average gradient only 2.5% but pitches to 9% 182m gain
2 - Gairnshiel - 6.5Km at 6.5% pitches to 17% 310m total elevation gain
3 - The Lecht - 4.7Km at 6.25% average two pitches of 22% and 25% 285m gain
4 - Bridge of Brown - 1.8Km at 12.2% 17% max 120m gain (climbs for anoth 8Km after this though fairly shallow gradient though)
5 - Cairngorm - 5.8Km at 12.2% 550m gain. (Steady climb taken from Cairngorm visitor centre to Ski Station)

Total gain - 1547m/5075ft

My mate and I have promised ourselves a crack at this some day

TOUR OF BRITAIN......Are you reading this!!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Bored on Night shift, thought I'd have a bash...

Stonehaven to Cairngorm, Aviemore, 99.7miles/160.4 KM

Climbs
1 - Slug Road - Long easy climb 10.45km average gradient only 2.5% but pitches to 9% 182m gain
2 - Gairnshiel - 6.5Km at 6.5% pitches to 17% 310m total elevation gain
3 - The Lecht - 4.7Km at 6.25% average two pitches of 22% and 25% 285m gain
4 - Bridge of Brown - 1.8Km at 12.2% 17% max 120m gain (climbs for anoth 8Km after this though fairly shallow gradient though)
5 - Cairngorm - 5.8Km at 12.2% 550m gain. (Steady climb taken from Cairngorm visitor centre to Ski Station)

Total gain - 1547m/5075ft

My mate and I have promised ourselves a crack at this some day

TOUR OF BRITAIN......Are you reading this!!

I get the impression from the postings both here and in my Unknown Climbs thread that there could be a really good Tour of Scotland.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Guys, how can i insert images from my computer in the posts? ( I mean non internet pictures)

 

[jens_attacks]

For Romania I'd do a single day race, not stage, and it would be the first to be a mountain one day race.

TRANSFAGARASAN.
From Pitesti to Brasov.

Total length about 260 kms, thre would be about 2 cat 2 clims and 2-3 cat 4s. The big one would come after about 60kms of flat racing, just past the lovely lakeside road. The climb is a steady 0-4% gradient for the first 12-15 kms before a final 10 kms with gradients of either 4%, 8%, 11% or flat. This goes on untl a brief respite in the last 2 kms, except for the last 500m which are above 20%.

There is a descent before another 60-70km of flats. It would have been super to have it as a MTF but its in the middle of nowhere. Its OK because while the grupetto will most definitely catch back on, it won't end in a sprint.

Heading towards Brasov after the leaving the beautiful road, where it starts to resemble the hill terrain that is synonymous with one day racing. At 220kms it begns wih some speedbump hills, at 240 km there would be a 6 km climb. A couple more tiny hills follow. This creates opporunities for many attacks.

Another defining characteristic of this race would be the descent in the last 5 km of the race, where the elevation plummets a few hundred metres in the space of 3kms. This allows gutsy riders a head start on the main contenders before a Fleche/AGR style finish 2kms at 17% into Brasov.

Would love to put profiles up, and had them allready but my computer crashed and lost them.

indeed there are beatiful parts of the country but nah i don't have the patience to design routes of races which will never take place.
of course i love all the hipsterish routes of libertine,great parcours

by the way,transfagarasan was beaten by transalpina which it goes to 2145 meters(urdele pass)

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Guys, how can i insert images from my computer in the posts? ( I mean non internet pictures)

Various image-hosting sites you can upload to, like imageshack, picasa, tinypic...

 

[Bavarianrider]

Various image-hosting sites you can upload to, like imageshack, picasa, tinypic...

Thanks

 

[Bavarianrider]

Tour of Germany/ Deutschlandrundfahrt

So guys, here we go the very first GT in Germany starts. 3 weeks of exciting racing in Germany. Obviously we want to establish this race as the the 3rd big GT. Therefore we run this race roghly at the same time like the Vuelta in late August/September. So teams can choose between those two races. Weather is also usually good and stablie during this period of time in Germany.

Stage 1:

Prologue: ITT in Berlin: 12.2km

The Tour starts with an all flat 12km Prologue right in the city center of Berlin. On their way riders will pass famous sights like the Brandenburger Tor or the Siegessäule
Riders who can get the big gears going early are the favorites in this one obviously.

 

[auscyclefan94]

fyi bayerische reiter, a prologue must be below 9km's. If it is larger than it then it counts as a stage.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Stage 2

Berlin - Island of Rügen/Bergen 265km

So the first real stage of this Tour leads us in the North to the beautiful Island of Rügen. It's an all flat stage, but at 265km it's painfully long. So which sprinter will have the legs to take the stage after a very long ride?

 

[Bavarianrider]

fyi bayerische reiter, a prologue must be below 9km's. If it is larger than it then it counts as a stage.

I called it first stage. Prologue is the inoffical label