Race Design Thread

[Libertine Seguros]

Library post

Fantasy Giri d'Italia (users R-Z)

Giro d'Italia: Prologue - Stage 8 Stages 9-14 Stages 15-20 (rghysens)

Giro d'Italia: Entire parcours (roundabout)

Giro d'Italia: Entire parcours (sensations)

Giro d'Italia: Entire parcours (SetonHallPirate)

Giro d'Italia: Stage 1 Stage 2 Stage 3 Stage 4 Stage 5 Stage 6 Stage 7 Stage 8 Stage 9 Stage 10 Stage 11 (Stromeon)

More will be added here as they are posted. All library posts are linked from the original post in the thread.

 

[rghysens]

Tour complet de France, stage 12: Confolens - Egletons: 187km, hilly (Poitou-Charentes - Limousin)

After a transfer of 70km the peloton arrives in Confolens for a road stage of 187km that crosses the hills of the southern Limousin.

From Confolens the peloton continues its southeastern course to Saint-Junien, where the first categorised hill of the day is climbed. 1.6km @ 5.4% is a mere warm-up for things to come in the final of this stage. For a few kilometres this stage crosses the northernmost areas of the Regional nature parc of the "Perigord Limousin", a varied landscape with forested hills intertwined with fast flowing rivers, rolling meadows separated by hedgerows and so on.
While carefully skirting south of Limoges, to avoid the traffic in the capital of the Limousin, the peloton crosses picturesque Solignac, originated around an abbey founded in the 7th century. Soon after two small, uncategorised hills and some rolling roads herald the type of terrain that awaits the peloton in the final. Châteauneuf-la-forêt is the last bigger town before this stage goes south and enters the second Nature parc of the day. The Parc Naturel Régional de Millevaches en Limousin is of a different order than that of the Perigord Limousin. It's twice as big, and with a maximum elevation nearly reaching 1000m definitely hillier too.
From Sussac the peloton starts the gentle and uncategorised climb towards the Mont Gargan and then descends to Chamberet where the real final can begin with 65km to go.
The double climb to Meyrignac and Haut-Noux is followed by some time on a plateau and a short descend to the valley of the river Vézère, where a dam created the Lac des Bariousses.
After crossing the Vézère, the 3rd category climb to Coissac immediately starts. Its long but gentle descent is followed by the climb to Coursou, a descent and the steep climb from Veix onwards. The steep part is followed by 5km false flat to the highest point of today's stage: the col de Lestards at 856m above sea level.
A gradual descent and a sharp left hand corner lead the peloton to the tiny hamlet Grandsaigne, where the penultimate climb of the day awaits the riders. A downhill of 5km on narrow, local roads to the last climb of the day is the reward for the effort. The climb to Saint-Yrieis-le-Déjalat isn't particulary difficult, but with only 12km to go it is the last opportunity for the barroudeurs to create a decisive gap.
The finish will be next to the Deiro Lake, 2km northeast of Égletons.

Although this stage has a LBL-like profile, at this moment of the tour it will be decided between the members of a breakaway. If it should be placed in the first week, before time trials or medium mountain stages, it could have a really entertaining race development.

Map & Profile

climbs:
Côte de Saint-Junien : km 29.5 ; 1.6km @ 5.4% ; 4th cat
Côte de Meyrignac: km123; 2km @ 5.2%; 4th cat
Côte du Haut-Noux: km127 ; 2.4km @ 5% ; 4th cat
Côte de Coissac : km137 ; 2.6km @ 7.5% ; 3rd cat
Côte de Coursou : km150.5 ; 3.2km @ 5.1% ; 4th cat
Côte de Veix : km156.5 ; 2km @ 9% ; 3rd cat
Côte de Puymorel : km167 ; 1.6km @ 8.3% ; 3rd cat
Côte de Saint-Yrieix-le-Déjalat : km175 ; 2.2km @ 6.5% ; 4th cat

Edit:
Instead of starting in Confolens, an alternative would be a start in Bellac. Although it's a bit further from Poitiers, it has the advantage to be accessible by a bigger road, thus reducing travel time, and it is a bigger town than Confolens. The stage length would be a bit shorter, but the final more or less the same, as map and profile show:

 

[May0maniac]

Stage 11 Calenzano - Carrara ; 255km
part 1

part 2

After the long hilly time trial the riders will have to ride on of those long medium mountain stages that are so typical for the Giro.
After 19km the first climb of the day starts after Figline, 7,6km at 5,8% but with a short 100m long 20% seep ramp.
The next climb that starts 1km bfore before Cantagallo i the hardes climb that the riders will have to ride today, 7,7km at 8,3% but very irregular with a short ramp that goes up to 16%.
Right after the descent the riders will meet the next climb, 3km at 5,6%, 10% max.
After a few km of false flat at the top of the climb and a longer descent the next short climb, 3,3km at 4%.
The next climb starts a few km after riding through Pistoia, 8,5km at 5,6% another irregular climb.
3km of false flat and the next climb already starts, 5,8km at 6%.
The 25km of descent and false flat until the next climb of the day starts, it's 2 climbs divided by 1km of false flat with the first being 4,3km at 6,6% and the second being 4,5km at 6%, both are irregular and the first features 300m at 18% followed by a technical descent.
After 8km of flat and riding through Fornoli the next climb starts in Ghivizzano an goes up to Gormigliana 5,4km at 7,5% another irregular climb with multiple parts above 10% an a short 14% steep ramp, followed by 3km of false flat until the descent starts in Coreglia Antelminelli.
After that 22km of false flat, maybe here i could have included another short climb but that would make te stage over 270km long.
A few km after riding through Castelnuovo the Next climb will be Maesta della Formica form Poggio, 10km at 6% but very irregular with may parts above 9%.
The descent is more of a false flat, the next climb will be the last part of the Passo del Vestito 7km at 5,8% but also irregular a short part at 12,8% and a few ramps at 9%.
Th descent features a flat part in the middle, but the steep sections are technical. The last climb of the day starts in Massa and goes past Carrara until we reach Bedizzano, 6,2km at 3,8% and is preetty easy, nothing over 7%. After a short descent the riders will reach the finish line in Carrara, notable for the famous Marmor di Carrara.
This is one of those stages that would benefit from bad weather, with a little bit of luck it could be brutal.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

L'Aquila 2010 rears its head once more... that was stage 11 too, I believe.

 

[May0maniac]

L'Aquila 2010 rears its head once more... that was stage 11 too, I believe.

Indeed, that would be the best case scenario. I hadn't thought about that but your right, it also was stage 11 so maybe it's a good omen.

 

[May0maniac]

Stage 12 La Spezia - Acqui Terme; 193km

After 2 hard stages the riders deserve something a little bit easier, it should be a stage for the sprinters, but they have to earn it.
A short 2km long climb at 6,7% on the first 5km shouldn't be a problem for anyone, it will be a nice warm-up.
The next climb is 5,7km at 5,7%, the other small cclimbs on th first half of the stage are 3km at 4,9% and 6km at 3,9%.
The next climb will be Passo del Turchino from Mele, 14,3km at 4%, followed by 26km of false flat.
THe next climb is between Ovada and Prasco 2,8km at 5,4% with a short 9% ramp.
Right after the secent to Ovada the riders will have to overcome the last climb of the day, 3km at 5,6% with another short 9% ramp.
After 5km of false flat and a short descent the remaining 5km are flat, so it shouldn't b a problem for the sprinters and their teams to catch the breakaway, but you never know, maybe a strong Rouleur attacks on the last climb and is successful, maybe the Peloton is tired after stage 11 and decides to softpedal the whole stage.
Acqui Terme:

Passo del Turchino

 

[May0maniac]

Sage 13 Asti - Sestriere; 234km
The first 60km from Asti to Venaria Reale are totally flat, no need to post them.

This will be the only +200km mountain stage an i think it will be brutal. It's a classic Finestre+Sestriere stage, but the length of the stage and the climbs before Finestre should make it brutal.
The first climb in lies betweed Niquidetto and Mompellato, lots of false flat the real clim is 7km at 5,3% with 11% max. It should be a nice warm-up for the climbers.
When the riders reach Susa after 150km the real climbing begins, the will ride the climb up to Moncenisio through Novalese and descent on the italian side of, Mont Cenis. The first km ar just false flat, but then we have 10km at 8%.
Think about it a really tough climb right before, Finestre, that's great, if ridden hard enough nearly all the domestiques will have been dropped before the Colle delle Finestre (18.6 km at 9.1%) even starts.
Finestre should be brutal right from the beginning, gaps will be huge and should only get bigger on the final climb to Sestriere.

This stage has the potential to create huge gaps, the length of the stage and Moncenisio right before a monster climb like Finestre should be enough to do that.
After a stage like this the riders deserve an easier stage, even if it will be a Saturday. It will be something like stage 12, so the stage before and after the Finestre stage will be easy to encurage the riders to go for broke on this stage.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Considering how great the 2005 stage was, it pains me to see RCS going with a nothing-before-Finestre stage again like they did in 2011. Moncenisio is so perfectly placed for it that it would seem too logical for them.

 

[May0maniac]

Considering how great the 2005 stage was, it pains me to see RCS going with a nothing-before-Finestre stage again like they did in 2011. Moncenisio is so perfectly placed for it that it would seem too logical for them.

I know, why in the blue hell would you go with a nothing-before-Finestre stage? That's just plain stupid.

 

[May0maniac]

Stage 14 Savoulx - Verrès; 172km

An easy transitional stage between to really hard mounain stages, that should encourage the riders to go all out on both mountain stages.
After going downhill to Susa the next 100km are pretty much flat.
The fist climb is located near Laghi di Meugliano e Alice, 4,8km at 3,4% so nothing that should bother the sprinters, well it could bother Andrea Guardini
5km before the finish line we hav the short climb to Sommet de Ville, 1,4km at 6% but with 500m at 8,5%.
The climb is followed by a 1km long descent that isn't very technical, the last 2km are flat.
This is another stage that could go to the sprinters that can survive the final hill or to a strong Rouleur that attacks on the final climb.
Verrès:

 

[May0maniac]

Stage 15 Verrès - La Thuile; 172km

Stage 15 will be a nice Aosta stage.
I want to thank Libertine for helping me with the names of the climbs, i oly knew St. Pantaleon, Verrogne and Colle San Carlo
After 16km of false flat the stage starts with the longest climb, St. Pantaleon 17,6km at 6.3%.
After the descent and 8 km of flat the next climb is Côte de Cretall 6,6km at 7,5% with 250m at 17%.
The next climb is Pila until Les Fleurs, 11,6km at 7% but very irregular and 1,5km at 11% and de first part of the descent is pretty technical.
After 7km of flat the climb to Verrogne, 12,3km at 7,7%, another irregular climb.
The penultimate climb will be Challancin, 10,3km at 7,2% with 500m at 14%.
The descent to Ruine Desot is immediatly followed by the last climb of the day, the Colle San Carlo, 10,5km at 10% a very hard climb

After that a 6km long desscent that will bring the riders to the finish line in La Thuile.
The only time that the Colle San Carlo was used in the Giro was stage 13 of the 2006 Giro, also with a finish in La Thuile, but it was a 218km unipublic stage + a descent. That stage was won by Piepoli, the only man that was able to stay with Robo-Basso on the Colle San Carlo. He used the wet descent to gain 44 sec on Basso, who palyed it save and Rujano s abandoned after the first 3km of the descent.
This should be a brutal stage, if the climbs before Colle San Carlo are raced hard enough the final climb will create huge gaps and the first 4km of the descent are technical, so a good descender could extend his lead or limit his losses.
After that the riders will get a well deserved 2nd restday, the next stage will be the 40km long flat ITT.

 

[May0maniac]

Stage 16 Biella - Serravalle Sesia; 40,3km

A long flat ITT without any real climbs, steep descents or technical corners, The descent is just a false flat and the steepest km has 2,2%, it's a pure power test.
It should be long enough to create big gaps that will force the climbers to attack on the last 2 mountain stages.

 

[rghysens]

...but it was a 218km unipublic stage + a descent...

If a stage is 218km long and ends with a descent, it's not a unipublic stage.

 

[May0maniac]

If a stage is 218km long and ends with a descent, it's not a unipublic stage.

It was an unipublic stage for Zomegnans standarts

 

[May0maniac]

If a stage is 218km long and ends with a descent, it's not a unipublic stage.

Yes, but compared to a real Zomegnan stage it was an unipublic stage

 

[rghysens]

Tour complet de France, Stage 13: Brive-la-Gaillarde - Agen: 170km, flat (Limousin - Aquitaine)


Another transfer betwen the previous stage and this one will probably upset some people in the peloton or race caravan, although it's only 60km on a highway. The stage lenght and profile will very likely be met with more approval by the cyclists. Between Brive-la-Gaillarde and Agen there's only 170km to cover through the beautiful region of the Vézère and Dordogne, mostly flat, rolling at best with a few minor hills.

Map & profile

Climbs:
Côte de Saint-Cernin-de-Larche : km11 ; 4.4km @ 4.3% ; 4th cat
Côte de Salignac-Eyvigues : km30.5 ; 2km @ 4.3% ; 4th cat

 

[roundabout]

Yes, but compared to a real Zomegnan stage it was an unipublic stage

2006 Giro was not that great. 3 one-climb stages (turned to 4 by the weather) and 3 multi-climb stages.

And the stage to Domodossola which was in the special category of stages that would make Pescheaux envious.

But I digress.

Viva Zomegnan.

 

[Red Rick]

2006 Giro was not that great. 3 one-climb stages (turned to 4 by the weather) and 3 multi-climb stages.

And the stage to Domodossola which was in the special category of stages that would make Pescheaux envious.

But I digress.

Viva Zomegnan.

What's Zomegnan doing nowadays anyway? I heard rumours he's in guantamo making the prisoners do crazy **** on a treadmill, but I think it's not true

 

[lemon cheese cake]

DR Stage 13 Oberstorf - Garmisch Partenkirchen

Primes/KOCs:
Kempten
Kaufbeuren
Schongau

KOMs:
None (No climb rule applies)

Today, we travel between two towns that hold the annual Four Hills Ski Jumping Tournament, over the period of just after Christmas and New Year. The riders start the stage at the bottom of yesterdays final climb, in Oberstorf. The race will then head north along the road that lead them to the town before continuing north to the first Prime of the day at Kempten. This town would qualify for KOC points anyway due to the cobbled town centre. The riders and race convoy will then gradually arc north east then south east passing through the towns of Kaufbeuren which will also qualify for the KOC/Prime competition. We will follow this arc to the next KOC at Schongau in the Altstadt (Old town). We wil then pass through the town of Oberau. Then we head on to the next and final stop at Garmisch Partenkirchen Ski Jump.

Start:

Finish:

 

[lemon cheese cake]

DR Stage 14 Garmisch Partenkirchen - Salzburg

Primes/KOCs:
Kreuth
Oberaudorf

KOMs:
Bayerischzellberg

With the race well into the second half, we start in the centre of Garmisch Partenkirchen for a long stage that is about 220kms in length overall. We shall then head in to the mountains for the stage on the 307 main road through the mountains. On this road the riders will get to the Prime at kreuth. The riders will then face the steep Bayerischzellberg. This will then lead the riders onto a very technical descent to the Prime at Oberaudorf. The riders will then head into the flatter second half of the stage along the 305 main road. The riders wil then head down out of the mountains to the town of Salzburg. This was the town in which The Sound of Music was flimed. The riders will finish in the main part of the Altstadt (Old town) in the shadow of the Schloss Festung Hohensalzburg. I do believe that this was one of the settings for the Sound of Music.

Start:

Finish:

 

[May0maniac]

Stage 17 Gallarate – Pertica Alta; 163km

A transitional stage that could go to a Sprinter that can climb but it could also be a breakaway stage
The first 110km are totally flat, then a climb 6,4km at 6,1%.
After the descent and 7 flat km a short climb, 2,7km at 5,5%, followed by 10km of false flat after the descent.
The last climb of the day starts right before Tavernole sul Mella, 9,1km at 5%, followed by 7 flat km before the riders will reach the finishline in Pertica Alta, the flat after the final climb should make for an interesting race, some sprinters could loose contact to the main group on the final climb and try go get back on the flat part, the teams of the sprinters that don't have a problem with the hills will ride hard at the front of the main group and the breakaway could have a better chance to make it because of the final climb.

 

[May0maniac]

Stage 18 Agrone – Sulden/Solda; 195km

A very hard stage with an easier climb right after Gavia and Stelvio, that should create great racing and big gaps between the favourites.
The stage starts with a small hill right after Agrone, 2,5km at 4,9, after that the riders will have to ride Passo Daone (8,4km at 9,2%), Pian di Campiglio (15,1km at 6,1%) and Tonale(15,2km at 6%) before the terrific Gavia-Stelvio combination (17,3km at 7,9% and 21,5km at 7,1%) , with the Stelvio being the Cima Coppi.
Right after the 19km long Stelvio descent starts the final climb to Sulden/Solda with 6,6km at 7% and a flat final km.
I know that bad weather could be a problem, an option could be to move the stage finish to Bormio 2000 and cut the Stelvio, it would still be a very hard stage with an easier final climb after a hard climb.
I personally think that you shouldn't cancel the Cima Coppi and that you should let them ride the stage and not talk about BS like neutralizing the Stelvio descent., if someone wants to attack he should be allowed to attack.
If someone decides to ride the Giro he should already know that climbing at high altitude with bad weather is something that can happen, this is a race that takes place in May and has a history of epic stages with bad weather, just remember queenstage of the 2003 Giro.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

DR Stage 15 Hallein - Berchtesgaden

The loop only:

Primes/KOCs:
Berchtesgaden
Berchtesgaden

KOMs:
Toter Mann Cat 2 x4
Hinterbrand Platz Cat 1 x3
Grenzeberg Cat 1 x3


Today we start in the town of Hallein, in Austria. The race will then cross the river and head north, berfore crossing the border back into Germany. The riders will then gradually travel to the town of Berchtesgaden for an early Prime. The riders will then head up the climb of the Toter Mann. Then they will head back into the town to cross the finish line for the first time. They will again leave the town to tackle the horrible climb of the Hinterbrand Platz. It has a minumum of 7% and maximum of more than 15% They will then ride up the Grenzeberg. Later the riders will follow the route they had completed earlier to the second Prime of the day. This will leave them to peak the Toter Mann again and cross the finish line at the Edelweiss Hotel for the second time. Then the riders will have two further laps of steep climbs.

Start:

Finish:

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I've always thought Sulden would make a great stage finish coming from that direction, same as Bormio 2000 from the other (although the 2004 stage there was simply too short and anæmic to make the best of it - have Mendola before the Tonale-Gavia-Bormio 2000 triple and it's a really strong stage.

As to the Deutschlandrundfahrt, I'm a little surprised at no little loop around Garmisch (personally I might have been tempted to put a puncheur finish at Panorama am Wank, Rießersee or, if you were adamant on finishing in town I always thought climbing up to the cross-country/biathlon facilities at Kaltenbrunn on Gsteigstraße then descending back to town on the main road might give us a Sanremo-esque little finish given that the stage you've presented is full of rolling up-and-down where there are few real climbs but the riders won't get much respite.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

I've always thought Sulden would make a great stage finish coming from that direction, same as Bormio 2000 from the other (although the 2004 stage there was simply too short and anæmic to make the best of it - have Mendola before the Tonale-Gavia-Bormio 2000 triple and it's a really strong stage.

As to the Deutschlandrundfahrt, I'm a little surprised at no little loop around Garmisch (personally I might have been tempted to put a puncheur finish at Panorama am Wank, Rießersee or, if you were adamant on finishing in town I always thought climbing up to the cross-country/biathlon facilities at Kaltenbrunn on Gsteigstraße then descending back to town on the main road might give us a Sanremo-esque little finish given that the stage you've presented is full of rolling up-and-down where there are few real climbs but the riders won't get much respite.

I didnt really think about that. I just wanted a stage between two of the 4 hills ski jumping competion. I also saw Rupholding on the map after i had published the stage today and would have visited it as i am a fan of Biathlon an XC Skiing.