Race interference: Protests, Sabotage, and Assaults

[the delgados]

The saddest lesson I've learned over the past 20 years is that violence works.

Maybe you're right, persistent organised violence against a peaceful group like a cycling team will work exactly as intended. Many just want to give in until it stops, siding with the organised violence. If only the victims would disappear, the conflict will end.

The sadness of the lesson is that it eventually gets learned by all sides.

The most optimistic lesson I've learned during my time here on earth is that protest works.
Think about how far we have come as a society. Advances in human rights are mainly due to public pressure.
It's the only thing non-elected people have in a democratic society to metaphorically slap the heads of officials to wake them up. It might be members of the UCI; it might be members of parliament; whoever it is, people have a right to share their disgust with things that are going on. I believe that is an essential element of a democratic society, and I'm honestly baffled that people think otherwise.

 

[the delgados]

You can not discuss how to control a protest without discussing what is being protested and how much bigger than sport that cause is. What do you say we just close this thread and go back to our little cycling lives.

No, don't do that.

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

"Delete the orphans", that sounds a bit harsh...

Makes me think of a Technoblade quote:

"I'm going to be the second worst thing to ever happen to these orphans!"
"Second?"
"They weren't always orphans"

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

The most optimistic lesson I've learned during my time here on earth is that protest works.
Think about how far we have come as a society. Advances in human rights are mainly due to public pressure.
It's the only thing non-elected people have in a democratic society to metaphorically slap the heads of officials to wake them up. It might be members of the UCI; it might be members of parliament; whoever it is, people have a right to share their disgust with things that are going on. I believe that is an essential element of a democratic society, and I'm honestly baffled that people think otherwise.

We keep going in circles here...

We're saying: Protest good, don't harm others tho

You keep saying: All protest good, harming others necessary evil if so


Also non-elected people have power in a democratic society to wake up politicians, it's called voting/elections

 

[RedheadDane]

Dunno if this is the right place, but I just want to point out the protestors who do know how to behave themselves, like the people at the bonus sprint on today's stage.
Just... standing there with flags, not interfering with the race.

 

[the delgados]

We keep going in circles here...

We're saying: Protest good, don't harm others tho

You keep saying: All protest good, harming others necessary evil if so


Also non-elected people have power in a democratic society to wake up politicians, it's called voting/elections

I never said "all protests good."
There are nuances that can only be resolved by talking, not banning.
I answered Netserk's question -- i.e. remove a team from a race.
Everything else happened organically.

 

[Rackham]

Also non-elected people have power in a democratic society to wake up politicians, it's called voting/elections

And those election results often contradict what the protestors demand, aka the street isn't always what the majority wants.

In any case the situation is simple: a protester rushing at the breakaway from a seemingly concealed position at the side of the road (as happened earlier in the stage) is reckless endangerment. It's also asinine to somehow pretend that causing a Spanish rider for Movistar to crash in the Vuelta is somehow a form of protest. No. Just no.

Laws matter as well.

 

[scribers]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1964694820372594965

View: https://x.com/faustocoppi60/status/1964694820372594965?s=46&t=X4NqNG7J5ZQ-MxPOi53ECQ

 

[scribers]

This clip is instructive. Notice OP uses the words “another crash caused by a crazy protestor”.
I’m going to point out there is
a) what other crashes were there?
b) how do we know they are crazy and protesting. Those two things are distinctive traits ya know. Because a cop/military dude is there? Crazy and protesting are causally equivalent?
c) you think that maybe the crash was caused by the cop/military dude actually running in front of a pro cycling group??
d) the dude crash himself in the ditch. If I had a euro for every time a spectator dives when the peloton comes through

 

[the delgados]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1964694820372594965

View: https://x.com/faustocoppi60/status/1964694820372594965?s=46&t=X4NqNG7J5ZQ-MxPOi53ECQ

Who is the lame-ass guy who was too dumb to correctly calculate his attempt to do a kamikaze mission by taking out the peloton? Looks like he just woke up from a drug haze and was freaked out by the on-coming riders.
Has anyone identified him?
Is he related to the Omi Opi person?
Who knows?
Whomever he is, and no matter his intentions, I'm sure authorities are rightfully taking care of the matter.

 

[scribers]

I might be the only one who thinks cop/military barreling in front of the peloton might be a problem? Meeting ideas with force also has consequences

 

[the delgados]

I think the fundamental difference tends to be the degree to which they're willing to escalate, and the reception on social media when it happens.

RR:
You make it seem like a popularity contest. No one's running for king/queen of the prom here.
You're leaving out the severity and overall effect of actions taking place.
Netserk asked a legit question about how authorities should react to protests, and people have replied. We're seven pages in, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't remember how you responded to Netserk's question. I'm too lazy to re-read everything here, so if you don't mind, direct me to the page where you answered the question.

 

[SafeBet]

I’m going to point out there is
a) what other crashes were there?

Petilli in stage 10.

 

[Hugh Januss]

This clip is instructive. Notice OP uses the words “another crash caused by a crazy protestor”.
I’m going to point out there is
a) what other crashes were there?
b) how do we know they are crazy and protesting. Those two things are distinctive traits ya know. Because a cop/military dude is there? Crazy and protesting are causally equivalent?
c) you think that maybe the crash was caused by the cop/military dude actually running in front of a pro cycling group??
d) the dude crash himself in the ditch. If I had a euro for every time a spectator dives when the peloton comes through

I watched the clip a few times and I don't see 90% of the actions that people are attributing to the person. I saw someone sitting on the bank get up and move towards the edge of the road. Was he going to throw himself in front of the riders or was he moving forward to wave his flag in protest or cheer on the riders? Since the guy ate *** in the ditch we will never know what his intention was as he never even got very close to the edge of the road. The clip offers exactly no evidence that he was crazy or on drugs or even protesting. Certainly I have seen much closer calls from the idiots running with the riders uphill. It actually looked to me that the front riders moved right to avoid the security/policeman who ran across the road right in front of them after they had passed the protester/perp/fan at the roadside. Romo's front wheel was taken out by the 3rd Trek rider in the line, he may not have even seen the guy crossing the road, he may have been looking back wondering why there was someone lying in the ditch. Or he may not have even seen him? This incident could be anything from deliberate sabotage to just another stupid fan trick not nearly rising to OMI OPI level.

 

[Netserk]

I watched the clip a few times and I don't see 90% of the actions that people are attributing to the person. I saw someone sitting on the bank get up and move towards the edge of the road. Was he going to throw himself in front of the riders or was he moving forward to wave his flag in protest or cheer on the riders? Since the guy ate *** in the ditch we will never know what his intention was as he never even got very close to the edge of the road. The clip offers exactly no evidence that he was crazy or on drugs or even protesting. Certainly I have seen much closer calls from the idiots running with the riders uphill. It actually looked to me that the front riders moved right to avoid the security/policeman who ran across the road right in front of them after they had passed the protester/perp/fan at the roadside. Romo's front wheel was taken out by the 3rd Trek rider in the line, he may not have even seen the guy crossing the road, he may have been looking back wondering why there was someone lying in the ditch. Or he may not have even seen him? This incident could be anything from deliberate sabotage to just another stupid fan trick not nearly rising to OMI OPI level.

He wasn't alone, but hid from police.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1964732058292625801

View: https://x.com/EchelonsHub/status/1964732058292625801

Radprofi Javier Romo stürzt nach Protestaktion bei Vuelta

Die propalästinensischen Demonstrationen bei der Spanien-Rundfahrt nehmen kein Ende. Auf der 15. Etappe kommt es zu einem Sturz, nachdem ein Demonstrant aus dem Gebüsch sprang.

www.faz.net

 

[topcat]

As befits my avatar, I'm with the delgados on this one. And ... I'll leave it at that.

 

[scribers]

I doubt anyone agrees with the concept of obstructing the race in progress for any purpose: protest, negligence, or moronic practical joke. Where we might disagree on is how situations are managed by cycling authorities and local authorities. I have no doubt the police/military are doing their best with a tough situation, and one could argue they would not be there if demonstrators were not entering the course. Or maybe the demonstrators are entering the course because the show of force is increasing tension and attracting attention?

I'd be surprised if each one of those individuals entering the course aren't spending the night in the box to face disorderly charges, and that is the right thing to do. Get out and do it again, spend a longer time in the box.

 

[red_flanders]

I don’t think so. Protest is almost inherently unacceptable and incomprehensible for some people. It’s always potentially difficult to discuss and the history of this forum is no exception. On its face I wouldn’t necessarily make a value judgment between say protesters at a cycling event who are unnecessarily disruptive to the riders themselves and fans who find the activity misguided, inappropriate, etc. Bracketing the motivation for the protest, it’s not hard to see the fans’ position.

That’s quite an assertion. I’ve literally never in my life met a person for whom “protest is almost inherently unacceptable or incomprehensible”.

Who are these people exactly? Where and how has this behavior manifested so we might judge the accuracy of this claim?

 

[Peyroteo94]

If these protesters don't get heavy fines, this will continue. Romo had a nasty crash and could end his Vuelta today.

 

[pastronef]

l'Equipe saying the Vuelta could end on Saturday and not go to Madrid on Sunday where more protests are expected

Pour éviter de nouveaux débordements de manifestants pro-palestiniens, le Tour d'Espagne pourrait être abrégé

De nouveau perturbée par des manifestants pro-palestiniens, avec notamment la chute de Javier Romo, l'épreuve espagnole pourrait ne pas aller jusqu'à Madrid et rendre son verdict dès samedi soir, pour éviter des débordements encore plus importants.

www.lequipe.fr

 

[aphronesis]

That’s quite an assertion. I’ve literally never in my life met a person for whom “protest is almost inherently unacceptable or incomprehensible”.

Who are these people exactly? Where and how has this behavior manifested so we might judge the accuracy of this claim?

I’ll invite you to pay both broad and granular attention to responses to civil strife in the US the next few years and see if you can work out some examples.

Failing that, maybe take a closer look at some responses to the cycling protests and see if they can honestly be described as measured and understanding. See if all the police handling any such events categorically do not meet some aspect of those criteria.

Who one has or hasn’t met or experienced in life is often not the best claim to overall validity.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Note that resulting crashes could be prevented if protester demands would be meet. I am saying this due to strongly believing protestors will be there the day after tomorrow. And the day after that ... People in charge of cycling and other parties involved all know that. Bottom line there are many solutions available, to protect the riders. Somehow making protestors to go away by themself, that is not one of them as it won't happen.

l'Equipe saying the Vuelta could end on Saturday and not go to Madrid on Sunday where more protests are expected

Of course, protesters won't stop, things will only escalate. UCI needs to act, to protect the riders.

 

[AmRacer]

Note that resulting crashes could be prevented if protester demands would be meet. I am saying this due to strongly believing protestors will be there the day after tomorrow. And the day after that ... People in charge of cycling and other parties involved all know that. Bottom line there are many solutions available, to protect the riders. Somehow making protestors to go away by themself, that is not one of them as it won't happen.



Of course, protesters won't stop, things will only escalate. UCI needs to act, to protect the riders.

Airbags would help, wouldn't it? 😁

 

[CyclistAbi]

Airbags would help, wouldn't it? 😁

Actually, they would. Crashes resulting from protest would lest often result in injuries. But why not to double down on riders, and again let them face all the consequences, while the rest wash their hands and say nothing can be done.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Airbags would help, wouldn't it? 😁

I was thinking about that, too. They should definitely be forced to wear helmets and mouth guards. It's only a matter of time before someone gets seriously hurt from falling over head first at the side of the road.