Race interference: Protests, Sabotage, and Assaults

[CyclistAbi]

Still, one being a fan of it or not, it's here, it can't be ignored. Like it currently is, on where it's expected for riders to take one for the team. For the team that doesn't negotiate? Did riders get such memo and do they agree with it? Currently it is reasonable to expect that police won't handle it in such way that riders won't be affected by it and secondly i feel that riders never signed up for that and do want to get it resolved.

So? What are the realistic options? One is to cancel the event, what else?

 

[aphronesis]

I think RF may have missed a few of the more virulent posts that were deleted.

Anyway, who gets to arbitrate the semantics of this

“seems if one is not a fan of mobs taking over events, then one is labeled as being anti-protest and pro-authoritarian”

I’ll have to research, but “mob” isn’t historically synonymous with accepted protest and could suggest some degrees of bias.

Maybe a subdiscussion ( relative to the Vuelta) on organized as opposed to spontaneous ditch jumping protest could be productive. Especially with Madrid coming.

On that tangent, this

“Nope. You've seen people say they support protest, but not interfering with the race, the sport, or endangering riders.”

is debatable within boundaries of protest. Danger to riders, not really, but the rest imposes certain limits of public acceptability.

Also the contested phrase on the subject started off “almost inherently” which is a sociological claim and qualification that’s easily verified historically as scribers suggested.

 

[aphronesis]

Still, one being a fan of it or not, it's here, it can't be ignored. Like it currently is, on where it's expected for riders to take one for the team. For the team that doesn't negotiate? Did riders get such memo and do they agree with it? Currently it is reasonable to expect that police won't handle it in such way that riders won't be affected by it and secondly i feel that riders never signed up for that and do want to get it resolved.

So? What are the realistic options? One is to cancel the event, what else?

The team could get tossed or its riders pull out ( goes to the protest dimension), which can be classed as ethical as much as business decisions.

 

[houtdffan]

at what point will ASO decide to move next years Grand Depart out of Spain?

 

[Rou]

at what point will ASO decide to move next years Grand Depart out of Spain?

Why would they?
IPT won't be in the Tour next year.

 

[Rou]

IPT is ruining the experience for the riders, the organizers and the viewers.
At one point you have to realize when you are not wanted at a party and just leave.

 

[Rou]

“People are protesting for a reason” - Jonas Vingegaard defends Vuelta a Espana protests

Week two of the Vuelta a España 2025 has been dominated by off-bike events, and Sunday’s stage 15 was no exception. With 56 kilometers to go, the race was thrown into chaos when a protester ran out fr...

cyclinguptodate.com

I'm sure if they make an anonymous poll a huge majority of the riders will support the protesters.

 

[red_flanders]

“seems if one is not a fan of mobs taking over events, then one is labeled as being anti-protest and pro-authoritarian”

I’ll have to research, but “mob” isn’t historically synonymous with accepted protest and could suggest some degrees of bias.

Research away. Not sure...what you'd be "researching"...since my comment was about the behavior of protesters in this race, as have been all my comments, and not some comment about all protests everywhere. You seem to keep making that...I'll graciously call it an...error.

As for your suggestion of "bias", yes. I have a bias against the tactics employed by the protesters in this race. No question. But here again you seem to want to comment on my state of mind or my politics. With your...suggestions. I'll suggest you find someone else with whom to play that game.

is debatable within boundaries of protest. Danger to riders, not really, but the rest imposes certain limits of public acceptability.

So this hasn't been a serious post.

 

[aphronesis]

Not posing dangers to riders as a given isn’t serious?

 

[Hugh Januss]

A couple of points here. How many protesters have there been out on the course? How many ugly/dangerous interactions have there been? I'm thinking it's very few per capita. So most of the protesters have been "behaving", but as we saw with the BLM protests as soon as one idiot in one city torches a building the whole movement is a "riot". By and large the protesters have waved their flags, chanted their chants and sung their songs. The ones that really step over the line need to be punished the rest need to be made to stand off the road just like every other race follower. Second point is at this point in time Israel should not be attached to a pro team and people are protesting that as should be, but what about the other "sports washing teams"? Why are they not getting the same treatment? I know the answer to this but I cannot state it here.

 

[red_flanders]

Not posing dangers to riders as a given isn’t serious?

It's fair to say I'm not always totally following your meanings. So if you meant it other than I took it, I apologize.

That said, I'm not interested in engaging further with someone who does in fact seem to be making a lot of maximally negative assumptions about where I'm coming from, so until that changes, I'll just end my responses here.

 

[aphronesis]

Easier if you’d done that this morning and saved everyone the effort. The choice of interpretation is yours.

 

[scribers]

You must be misinterpreting what was said or overthinking it. Because I agree with everything you say until the final three sentences.

 

[houtdffan]

Why would they?
IPT won't be in the Tour next year.

why would they?

ASOs race is being ruined by the protestors. It is a reasonable outcome to move another larger event so that a repeat does not happen

 

[AmRacer]

@AmRacer

I feel that we sort of established already, through discussion, you have unrealistic expectations. Another proof of that might come already the day after tomorrow. So lets hope that parties involved will do everything in their power, to de-escalate and make peloton a tad safer for riders. If they won't then IMHO riders themself should make the next move and force that. In the end it's them, who ATM are sole recipients of the consequences.

Yes, you have unrealistic expectations.

 

[RedheadDane]

Why would they?
IPT won't be in the Tour next year.

Huh? I haven't been following the points battle much, but aren't IPT on the verge on moving back up to WT status?

 

[Netserk]

IPT is ruining the experience for the riders, the organizers and the viewers.
At one point you have to realize when you are not wanted at a party and just leave.

There are indeed many places where victims are unwanted and seemingly conflict would end if they would just leave.

It's not a stable solution.

 

[Red Rick]

There are indeed many places where victims are unwanted and seemingly conflict would end if they would just leave.

It's not a stable solution.

The irony is lost on too many

 

[Rou]

Huh? I haven't been following the points battle much, but aren't IPT on the verge on moving back up to WT status?

Here is what I think.
The UCI makes the rules. ASO is the entity pulling the strings. They can just add this rule:
'' The race organizer can suspend the participation of a team if it endangers civil order or the health of people. ''
As far as I'm aware there is no such rule currently.

 

[Samamba]

The irony is lost on too many

They don't see the hypocrisy. Reading this topic is actually hilarious.

 

[Netserk]

Here is what I think.
The UCI makes the rules. ASO is the entity pulling the strings. They can just add this rule:
'' The race organizer can suspend the participation of a team if it endangers civil order or the health of people. ''
As far as I'm aware there is no such rule currently.

The team, a peaceful victim of abuse, is at fault for the disorder of others?

 

[zarathustra]

Here is what I think.
The UCI makes the rules. ASO is the entity pulling the strings. They can just add this rule:
'' The race organizer can suspend the participation of a team if it endangers civil order or the health of people. ''
As far as I'm aware there is no such rule currently.

ASO does not operate in a vacuum. It is dependent on the state, and the French state would not tolerate a submissive act such as the exclusion of unpopular teams during the race. Houellebecq wrote Soumission ten years ago but we're not there yet (at least, I hope so).

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

Why would they?
IPT won't be in the Tour next year.

There's a 0% chance of this team or a predecessor missing out on the Tour next year.

Even if Adams suddenly decides to pull the plug or sell the team, someone is going to jump in and buy the license and take most of the riders. (And that is if Premier-Tech doesn't go solo for the next three years)

And the UCI won't pull the plug because if they were to do it with Israel they would have to the same with UAE (in the very least).

 

[scribers]

And the UCI won't pull the plug because if they were to do it with Israel they would have to the same with UAE (in the very least).

Right there is right thing to do

 

[CyclistAbi]

The team could get tossed or its riders pull out ( goes to the protest dimension), which can be classed as ethical as much as business decisions.

Currently UCI doesn't allow it, for organiser to remove a team that causes high risk and protests. The team itself i guess could do it.

at what point will ASO decide to move next years Grand Depart out of Spain?

Next year IMHO it will start at Giro already, that is if things stay the same as they are now. And after Vuelta there are still some races in 2025 season, on where it's reasonable to expect protests.

“People are protesting for a reason” - Jonas Vingegaard defends Vuelta a Espana protests

Week two of the Vuelta a España 2025 has been dominated by off-bike events, and Sunday’s stage 15 was no exception. With 56 kilometers to go, the race was thrown into chaos when a protester ran out fr...

cyclinguptodate.com

I'm sure if they make an anonymous poll a huge majority of the riders will support the protesters.

This indeed is another aspect of it, kudos to Jonas for pointing it out, some riders are prepared to endure it due to understanding on why the protests are happening. Still, IMHO other parties should do more, not to wash their hands and watch on how riders are the ones that need to deal with it on the road. It further show on how there is a total lack of empathy, on where it comes to riders safety in terms of governance.

Yes, you have unrealistic expectations.

Time will tell but i am almost certain that baton won't fix this one. We'll see.