Race Radio ban

[Kwibus]

Re:

In GT's, breaks have a ridiculously high success-rate, while in pretty much every other races they get caught 90% of the time. And I hate that the teams apparently dont care about big stage wins in the mountains, at least thats the impression I have gotten the last few years in the GT's.

Not on flat stages. Only on really hilly or mountain stages the break survives. Simply the GC man prefer to keep their domestiques fresh for moment when they are needed and ofcourse hills/mountains are harder to control, but you see that if a big tea, wants to control the stage they pretty much always succeed. They just don't care usually.

Flat stages are zzzz and too easy to control.

Classic races where chaos rules are really awesome without radios. Specially the holly classics are filled with breaks that exist purely so that their teammates don't have to chase. Breaks that don't want to survive because they are riding for their teamleader and their da telling them not to pull when the gap gets to big. Frustating the 2-3 riders that actually do want to win.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

In GT's, breaks have a ridiculously high success-rate, while in pretty much every other races they get caught 90% of the time. And I hate that the teams apparently dont care about big stage wins in the mountains, at least thats the impression I have gotten the last few years in the GT's.

Not on flat stages. Only on really hilly or mountain stages the break survives. Simply the GC man prefer to keep their domestiques fresh for moment when they are needed and ofcourse hills/mountains are harder to control, but you see that if a big tea, wants to control the stage they pretty much always succeed. They just don't care usually.

Flat stages are zzzz and too easy to control.

Classic races where chaos rules are really awesome without radios. Specially the holly classics are filled with breaks that exist purely so that their teammates don't have to chase. Breaks that don't want to survive because they are riding for their teamleader and their da telling them not to pull when the gap gets to big. Frustating the 2-3 riders that actually do want to win.

There was the stage this year at the Giro that Marangoni I think won from a break (maybe 2014) and Jack Bauer at the Tour(?) who was metres away from doing a less impressive, but still very nice, Tony Martin-esque break in 2014 in apocalyptic conditions.

 

[Angliru]

It's a philosophical question if you want radio comms or not.

If you prefer to view cycling as a team sport, you want comms - if you prefer to view it as an individual sport, you are against.

Personally I think the team aspect, is what makes cycling interesting.

It existed as team sport prior to race radio comm with the team cars so now in your opinion to eliminate that connection makes it an individual geared sport? That makes no sense. I'm all for radio connecting riders to the race officials but that is the extent of which I think that it benefits the sport and the viewers/fans.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

It's a philosophical question if you want radio comms or not.

If you prefer to view cycling as a team sport, you want comms - if you prefer to view it as an individual sport, you are against.

Personally I think the team aspect, is what makes cycling interesting.

It existed as team sport prior to race radio comm with the team cars so now in your opinion to eliminate that connection makes it an individual geared sport? That makes no sense. I'm all for radio connecting riders to the race officials but that is the extent of which I think that it benefits the sport and the viewers/fans.

You know, something can still be a team sport, despite no longer having the original form

- or do you think we should ban team cars also, because cycling was a team sport before they were introduced?

My point was, that comms allow for teams to act more cohesively, while removing comms makes it more difficult for the DS to manage the team in-race.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

My point was, that comms allow for teams to act more cohesively, while removing comms makes it more difficult for the DS to manage the team in-race.

It's still a team sport equally. It's just that race radios centralise team decision making in the hands of someone who isn't riding and who has access to more complete information. That doesn't make it more of a team sport, it just makes it a more controlled and predictable team sport.

Team bosses like control and predictability for perfectly understandable reasons. Fans should hate it for equally understandable reasons.

 

[richo36]

My point was, that comms allow for teams to act more cohesively, while removing comms makes it more difficult for the DS to manage the team in-race.[/quote]

So by the same logic you would be happy to see football players have an earpiece in as it will allow them to act more cohesively as a team????

I mean really all radios do is take the skill out of cycling. Means smart riders have less chance of creating chances and/or smart road captains are disadvantaged as weak road captains have ds sitting in a car with complete overview of the race who do there job for them.

Cycling just needs to install radios that is linked on one channel that all cyclists use and is purely for safety information/announcement.

 

[May0maniac]

My point was, that comms allow for teams to act more cohesively, while removing comms makes it more difficult for the DS to manage the team in-race.

So by the same logic you would be happy to see football players have an earpiece in as it will allow them to act more cohesively as a team????

I mean really all radios do is take the skill out of cycling. Means smart riders have less chance of creating chances and/or smart road captains are disadvantaged as weak road captains have ds sitting in a car with complete overview of the race who do there job for them.

Cycling just needs to install radios that is linked on one channel that all cyclists use and is purely for safety information/announcement.

For me that would be the best thing to do, but as a ds you want to control the race as much as possible and being able to use the radio to communicate with the riders is a great tool for them, so the big teams who want to control races and have the firepower to do that will always oppose a race radio ban, so I don't know if the UCI has enough power to enforce a race radio ban, ASO and RCS probably could get away with banning team radios in their races because they own so many big races that are vital for the sponsors, they are probably the only one who are powerful enough to really enforce a race radio ban.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

My point was, that comms allow for teams to act more cohesively, while removing comms makes it more difficult for the DS to manage the team in-race.

It's still a team sport equally. It's just that race radios centralise team decision making in the hands of someone who isn't riding and who has access to more complete information. That doesn't make it more of a team sport, it just makes it a more controlled and predictable team sport.

Team bosses like control and predictability for perfectly understandable reasons. Fans should hate it for equally understandable reasons.

I prefer comms

I like the degree of control it affords the DS - like the head coach on an NFL team

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

I also enjoy playing PCM: I just don't want the real thing to be too like it.

 

[LPP68!]

I don't know if is already mentioned, since I only read the last 2 pages of the thread, but the least what should be done if radiocommunications are here to stay, is make them available for the tv-broadcast. It is done for years in motorsports, no reason it can not be used in cycling.

 

[Master50]

Personally I never was a big believer that radios was the root of the predictable problem. I was also a UCI commissaire so from a race management and safety perspective I loved radios up to a point and like everyone I also saw they created their own management issues but solved more. Since 2010 I came to think the radio problem was more of a doping problem than a tool to catch the breakaway 1 km from the finish. I am sure the Clinic regulars will disagree but I also think that the peloton was getting cleaner and the riders performed more "human" such that they could not execute those catches as easily and bit by bit more escapes make it, even in Radio Legal Pro Tour events.
I currently applaud the return and will watch to see if we get a rerun of the first introduction.

 

[jmdirt]

I'm not picking a side in the debate, I just found it funny "what is someone going to tell me, go harder?!" From USA TT Champs:

All of the top three riders eschewed race radios, choosing instead to rely on feel on a technical, punchy course. Neben joked that radios aren't useful in time trials, saying, "I don't wear a radio because, what is someone going to tell me, go harder? I'm already on the rivet trying to go as hard as I can. I've won titles by less than a second and lost by less than a second. When I'm racing, I'm doing it with that in mind, that every second matters."

 

[Tonton]

My point was, that comms allow for teams to act more cohesively, while removing comms makes it more difficult for the DS to manage the team in-race.

So by the same logic you would be happy to see football players have an earpiece in as it will allow them to act more cohesively as a team????

I mean really all radios do is take the skill out of cycling. Means smart riders have less chance of creating chances and/or smart road captains are disadvantaged as weak road captains have ds sitting in a car with complete overview of the race who do there job for them.

Cycling just needs to install radios that is linked on one channel that all cyclists use and is purely for safety information/announcement.

For me that would be the best thing to do, but as a ds you want to control the race as much as possible and being able to use the radio to communicate with the riders is a great tool for them, so the big teams who want to control races and have the firepower to do that will always oppose a race radio ban, so I don't know if the UCI has enough power to enforce a race radio ban, ASO and RCS probably could get away with banning team radios in their races because they own so many big races that are vital for the sponsors, they are probably the only one who are powerful enough to really enforce a race radio ban.

Excellent post richo36. Same radio that for all, for safety is a great idea. Mayomaniac, it's true that the DS wants to be in control. Before the earpieces, preparation, scouting of the stage would be key, the pre-race briefing was huge in terms of strategy, more so than it is today. The best DS was the best DS then, as it is now, but smart riders had an edge that has been taken away. Communication was intermittent but still existed, with team cars getting to the riders and giving instructions. Guimard ordering Van Impe to attack or he would run him off the road at the '76 TdF comes to mind.