Race Radio ban

[pastronef]

You bolded that yourself in the quote in your very first post.

ok, now it makes sense. but as normal race radio I meant just the one on the team cars
ok, that could be ok. rider's radios to listen to official race radio.

 

[pastronef]

I agree pastro. I guess the races would be more unpredictable but not in a good way. But hopefully Vaughters is right and radios will still be allowed in 2015.

I think we've seen plenty of good racing with radios. I am with you pastro, I wouldn't want to see one of my favorites lose out because he couldn't communicate with teammates.

yep Flo. you are thinking about Alberto with a flat and Benna in the break with no radio.
I am thinking about carrefour de l'arbre, Wiggo with a flat and Thomas in the break with no radio. I'D GET MAD, MAD

 

[pastronef]

I agree pastro. I guess the races would be more unpredictable but not in a good way. But hopefully Vaughters is right and radios will still be allowed in 2015.

it must be because of Christmas. Vaughters has never been right on this forum. ever.

 

[cineteq]

I am thinking about carrefour de l'arbre, Wiggo with a flat and Thomas in the break with no radio. I'D GET MAD, MAD

It's simple, they should re-learn how to race without team radios. Race radio and logistics should take care of most safety issues. I really hope this ban goes through.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I guess that will stay as always.

ps. about entertainment: your favourire rider is chasing a breakaway with a teammate in it. they have 30 seconds time gap. he crashes or has a flat. team car without team radio can't stop the teammate up front to wait for your favourite rider. he loses the race or time in GC.

grrrrrr

There is always an element of randomness to bike racing. But just as with crashes, even the apparently random elements are actually an interaction between luck on the one hand and skill or intelligence on the other. Being more likely to know what the hell was going on without radios was an advantage for smart riders and alert riders. Being more likely to respond wisely to a changing situation without a DS pouring the necessary tactical instruction into their ear was an even bigger one.

Radios take a lot of that out of the hands of the riders. They reduce the importance of racing intelligence as a factor. The main reason why team radios are bad is that they allow teams to make races more controlled and orderly and thus less entertaining. But they also reward the stupid and oblivious rider.

 

[nhowson]

There is always an element of randomness to bike racing. But just as with crashes, even the apparently random elements are actually an interaction between luck on the one hand and skill or intelligence on the other. Being more likely to know what the hell was going on without radios was an advantage for smart riders and alert riders. Being more likely to respond wisely to a changing situation without a DS pouring the necessary tactical instruction into their ear was an even bigger one.

Radios take a lot of that out of the hands of the riders. They reduce the importance of racing intelligence as a factor. The main reason why team radios are bad is that they allow teams to make races more controlled and orderly and thus less entertaining. But they also reward the stupid and oblivious rider.

And you've just sold me on this.

 

[RedheadDane]

I don't think it can be boiled down to a case of radios make the riders mindlessly follow their DSes orders vs. without radios the safety will be gone.
The riders are able to think for themselves even with radios - the crosswind racing of Saxo in last years TdF was done without any directing from the car - and sometimes too much radio contact can also be an issue; Stelviogate anyone?

Maybe a solution would be having the official radio delay general information to the team cars who'd then have to pass it on to the riders. However, in situations where the message needs to be given to the riders now without the added time of having riders from each team get to the cars, the message could be sent directly to the riders, maybe just a few respected riders.
This might also help avoid a situation in which a rider goes "All this talking in my ear is really annoying!" *removes radio*.

 

[Granville57]

Radios take a lot of that out of the hands of the riders. They reduce the importance of racing intelligence as a factor. The main reason why team radios are bad is that they allow teams to make races more controlled and orderly and thus less entertaining. But they also reward the stupid and oblivious rider.

And at least one pro rider agrees with you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRYEz8KqYZE&spfreload=10&t=12m38s

Good posts in this thread, btw.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I don't think it can be boiled down to a case of radios make the riders mindlessly follow their DSes orders vs. without radios the safety will be gone.
The riders are able to think for themselves even with radios - the crosswind racing of Saxo in last years TdF was done without any directing from the car - and sometimes too much radio contact can also be an issue; Stelviogate anyone?

Maybe a solution would be having the official radio delay general information to the team cars who'd then have to pass it on to the riders. However, in situations where the message needs to be given to the riders now without the added time of having riders from each team get to the cars, the message could be sent directly to the riders, maybe just a few respected riders.
This might also help avoid a situation in which a rider goes "All this talking in my ear is really annoying!" *removes radio*.

no the crosswind stage was far more planned than you think.
At the breakfast meeting before the stage started two teams decided to ride hard. Can you guess the name of these two teams?
(clue: none of them involved saxo)

Anyway, crosswind stages are not the best examples as pretty much everybody are prepared, but the wind will always do the damage to some teams in the end.

Unexpected attacks on cobbles or hilly stages are where team radios often neutralize the action. Hence the technology needs to be ditched.

 

[MatParker117]

I think a compromise will be reached radios will be allowed but restricted to the team leader and two other riders on the team. Situation will stay the same in TT's.

 

[cyclingPRpro]

Sorry, but radios are coming back. If you want "purity" go ride L'Eroica.

The DS is the director of the team, period. I understand you guys don't care about logistics... but if that stuff didn't happen your favorite rider likely wouldn't even finish the stage. It's a hell of a lot easier to radio back and let the wrench know you're coming so he or she can be prepared, especially if you're unlucky enough to pull car 18.

Far better to shake things up would be to disallow power meters. IMO, too many riders lock in on a number like a RONCO oven then set it and forget it... That makes for boring racing.

 

[Jancouver]

Sorry, but radios are coming back. If you want "purity" go ride L'Eroica.

The DS is the director of the team, period. I understand you guys don't care about logistics... but if that stuff didn't happen your favorite rider likely wouldn't even finish the stage. It's a hell of a lot easier to radio back and let the wrench know you're coming so he or she can be prepared, especially if you're unlucky enough to pull car 18.

Far better to shake things up would be to disallow power meters. IMO, too many riders lock in on a number like a RONCO oven then set it and forget it... That makes for boring racing.

Powermeters are not that important unless you are talking TT or a breakaway. In other situations, only the strongest guy can pace himself with powermeter, the rest of the peloton is just happy to hang on and looking at powermeter is useless.

Basically banning powermeter would have no impact on road racing. The team radios on the other hand must go. Race radios will provide all the important info including the race number of a rider with mechanical so the team can wait end help.

 

[cineteq]

Something in here doesn't add up.
http://inrng.com/2011/03/race-radios-and-the-tour-de-france-data-from-365-stages/

The team radios on the other hand must go. Race radios will provide all the important info including the race number of a rider with mechanical so the team can wait end help.

They must! Besides race radio can be complemented by technology and motorbikes.

 

[Granville57]

Sorry, but radios are coming back. If you want "purity" go ride L'Eroica.

<golf clap>

Are you just trolling? Because you haven't directly addressed one question put to you thus far.

The DS is the director of the team, period. I understand you guys don't care about logistics... but if that stuff didn't happen your favorite rider likely wouldn't even finish the stage.

Yawn. So how was anyone actually capable of winning, or finishing, or doing anything before race radios?

Far better to shake things up would be to disallow power meters. IMO, too many riders lock in on a number like a RONCO oven then set it and forget it... That makes for boring racing.

Yeah, well it's not likely that anyone here would disagree with that. But I'm confused by the fact that that's a direct contradiction of this:

ban all carbon, all new fabrics and use only water.

As technology advances so should the sport.

Please tell me you're "The Secret Pro," because your insight from "within the pro ranks" is no more helpful, informative or revealing than anything that has appeared in that over-hyped and disappointingly lame, anonymous column.

 

[DirtyWorks]

... Race radios will provide all the important info including the race number of a rider with mechanical so the team can wait end help.

Report on how fatigued the break riders are
Report on distance to finish.
Report on gap status to break.

Everything that takes uncertainty out of the event, resulting in running a break down in the last few KM's almost every time. If a yawn could yawn after seeing a couple of race-radio-equipped bike riders, it would.

 

[pastronef]

Luuc Eisenga @EisengaL

There still will be use of 2-way radios in bike races in 2015, same conditions as in 2014; cfm'ed by @UCI_cycling.

https://twitter.com/EisengaL/status/549332017717190656

 

[jens_attacks]

at least until the imminent introduction of drones in the races, there will be race radios. i confirm

 

[RedheadDane]

no the crosswind stage was far more planned than you think.
At the breakfast meeting before the stage started two teams decided to ride hard. Can you guess the name of these two teams?
(clue: none of them involved saxo)

And yet it was Saxo who started the crosswind racing...
We are talking about the same stage, right? Stage 13 of the 2013 TdF.

 

[LaFlorecita]

And yet it was Saxo who started the crosswind racing...
We are talking about the same stage, right? Stage 13 of the 2013 TdF.

No, Saxo did not start the echelon racing.

OPQS and Belkin were riding hard from the start of the stage. Which is why for example Valverde fell behind. Then Saxo forced the final (and most important) selection.

I was terribly annoyed by the Dutch media, who only mentioned Belkin when it came to that stage. Belkin, Belkin, Belkin. It was mainly Saxo who made it an awesome stage. But they did not start it all.

 

[Viskovitz]

Sorry, but radios are coming back. If you want "purity" go ride L'Eroica.

The DS is the director of the team, period. I understand you guys don't care about logistics... but if that stuff didn't happen your favorite rider likely wouldn't even finish the stage. It's a hell of a lot easier to radio back and let the wrench know you're coming so he or she can be prepared, especially if you're unlucky enough to pull car 18.

You must be a hell of a good rider because you never ride anything outside the WT races, do you? There you don't have radios and NOBODY ****ing cares. You don't complain, managers don't complain... Wanna know why? Managers don't care if they lose a small race because of idiotic riders and tactics, but they want the big goals, the WT races, strictly under their boring control.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Luuc Eisenga @EisengaL

There still will be use of 2-way radios in bike races in 2015, same conditions as in 2014; cfm'ed by @UCI_cycling.

https://twitter.com/EisengaL/status/549332017717190656

good news, thanks for posting

at least until the imminent introduction of drones in the races, there will be race radios. i confirm

 

[Kwibus]

No, Saxo did not start the echelon racing.

OPQS and Belkin were riding hard from the start of the stage. Which is why for example Valverde fell behind. Then Saxo forced the final (and most important) selection.

I was terribly annoyed by the Dutch media, who only mentioned Belkin when it came to that stage. Belkin, Belkin, Belkin. It was mainly Saxo who made it an awesome stage. But they did not start it all.

Not really, if not for Belkin and QPQS than Saxo probably wouldn't have made that final selection. If they race wasn't hard before the final 30km you would never had such a small final echelon at the end.

It was great that Saxo was smart enough to actually use Belkins and QPQS earlier work instead of sitting along.

 

[Netserk]

You must be a hell of a good rider because you never ride anything outside the WT races, do you? There you don't have radios and NOBODY ****ing cares. You don't complain, managers don't complain... Wanna know why? Managers don't care if they lose a small race because of idiotic riders and tactics, but they want the big goals, the WT races, strictly under their boring control.

I was just about to post the same thing when I read the post you responded to. It's like (s)he doesn't realize that radios are currently (and have been for a some time) forbidden in non-WT races.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

To me it seems pretty obvious that radios are here to stay. The trend seems to be towards more tech rather than less tech and they seem to think all those in-car shots and radio utterings make great TV (copying from Formula 1). In fact it won't be long before all team instructions are beamed to the computer on the handlebar as well and then that will be replaced by those "Google Glass"-type specs

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

It's pretty obvious you guys are only looking at this from a fan perspective and have never worked in the sport at the pro level.

Radios are needed for many reasons. Rider safety, logistics (feeding - flats - mechanicals - injury/illness) and yes tactics. But if we all have radios and use them it's a level playing field.

That's right: in non WT-races, there is no consideration for rider safety as can be seen in the vast number of casualties in every race; riders are left to race with no food or drink other than their pre-race fry up; flats and other mechanicals are fixed single handedly by the riders (and no hiring small boys to operate the bellows!); and race organisers account for the otherwise total lack of care for ill or injured riders by employing vets with humane killers every 10km.