Radio Ban is silly

[El Oso]

Basketball, soccer, NHL, even in the NFL it is only the quarterback that has a radio

I believe that even in the NFL, they are by league rules turned off with 15 seconds left on the playclock so the quarterback actually has to read the defense and audible on his own. Plus by league rules if one teams radios are down the other team is prohibited from using them.

 

[bianchigirl]

So riders can't communicate on the road? Did someone sew up their lips? Prevent them from having a chat at the breakfast table? Do they come and hit them with the naughty stick if they utter a few words together when in the thick of the peloton?

 

[Carboncrank]

I believe that even in the NFL, they are by league rules turned off with 15 seconds left on the playclock so the quarterback actually has to read the defense and audible on his own. Plus by league rules if one teams radios are down the other team is prohibited from using them.

Actually, a defensive player gets a radio not too.

The question was what other team sports use them or prohibits them. The answer is they are not prohibited in other team sports.

Cycling radios are no more sophisticated than those in race cars. If someone thought listening in was a big deal it would probably be pretty easy.

 

[El Oso]

Perhaps I miscommunicated my point, being that in the one other team sport where radios are used (i'm excluding car racing due to a complete lack of knowledge of the sport) there are some pretty strict limitations on use of radios. Specifically that when it comes time for the players to actually think on the run, the radios are prohibited.
Moreover, in american footall, only one player on each side of the ball is permitted to have a radio, whereas in cycling everybody on the team has one, which means there still has to be on the field communication in the moment. Applying this to cycling, the DS could not specifically tell riders instantaneously when to attack, it would have to be relayed through the team leader, thereby watering down the DS's ability to command realtime attacks. Therefore, more of an emphasis would be placed on pre-racing team meeting with the strategy planned and the riders strategery savy.

 

[Carboncrank]

Perhaps I miscommunicated my point, being that in the one other team sport where radios are used (i'm excluding car racing due to a complete lack of knowledge of the sport) there are some pretty strict limitations on use of radios. Specifically that when it comes time for the players to actually think on the run, the radios are prohibited.
Moreover, in american footall, only one player on each side of the ball is permitted to have a radio, whereas in cycling everybody on the team has one, which means there still has to be on the field communication in the moment. Applying this to cycling, the DS could not specifically tell riders instantaneously when to attack, it would have to be relayed through the team leader, thereby watering down the DS's ability to command realtime attacks. Therefore, more of an emphasis would be placed on pre-racing team meeting with the strategy planned and the riders strategery savy.

The issued of espionage in football is completely different. Clearly, the other side listening in on play calls would be completely unacceptable. That's why the NFL radios are very expensive tamper proof and secure. At 28,000 dollars a pop they aren't going to give radios to all the players.

Completely different issues.

Fans actually listen in on auto racing radios. Even in Formula one, the most competitive, win at any cost sport in the world, they don't secure radios. In NASCAR you can listen on the internet. I imagine someone with a scanner could do the same in cycling.

In cycling, of all the things communicated, "attack now" probably doesn't rank top ten in importance.

And the idea that they could still have radios but for safety only information is just silly. How does this work? A race official sees something and relays to the riders? Riders are going to see most trouble before someone in a car or on a motorbike. Info on a crash goes through the group in a flash with team radios.

 

[Ripper]

Well, you certainly aren't making it smarter by reducing communication throughout a team.

Getting rid of radios does not reduce communication within a team. In fact, it might improve it!

 

[El Oso]

Ummmm, I never raised the issue of espionage. I'm not really worried about that as a problem. It was mentioned that the NFL and auto racing are the only other sports with radios and I was merely pointing out that the NFL is limited is its use such that the players still have to think for themselves as opposed to a chess match between the DS.

With regards to the safety radios, many of those in favor of the radios (i.e. riders and DS), have cried that safety is the reason they need radios. As I understand it and IMO, the reason for the radio ban is so that the riders actually have to think and not rely upon the DS for all strategy, such as, without limitation, attack now, or the break is x mintues again and travelling at y kph, therefore pick up the pace to z kph and you'll catch them 2k before the finish line so we can have our sprint. Allowing the radios to warn of road hazzards only is a compromise that would (arguably) make both parties happy. IMO this is BS and there is not evidence support the safety claim, but then again, that's just my opinion.

 

[guilder]

The teams ability to light it up for TV has 100% to do with seamless communication with its riders.

Race radios are integral to modern day road racing's TV/multimedia experience. Yet the sport is still borderline boring.

The brilliant plan to eliminate radios will be like anesthesia to viewers and no level of spin will keep them interested.

 

[Race Radio]

The teams ability to light it up for TV has 100% to do with seamless communication with its riders.

Race radios are integral to modern day road racing's TV/multimedia experience. Yet the sport is still borderline boring.

The brilliant plan to eliminate radios will be like anesthesia to viewers and no level of spin will keep them interested.

Spoken like someone who has never seen a race without radios.

Radios make racing more predictable and boring. Any French Cup race is more exciting then a flat Tour stage where they time the catch to the second.

 

[Runitout]

Di Luca, for all his suspect preparation, was a marvel to watch in a race. Tactically brilliant, always in the right place at the right time - he knew when to attack and how to make it stick.

Take a look for the radio in his ear. You won't find one.

I would rather a race full of di Lucas than a race full of Leipheimers, any ol' day. Hinault was right.

 

[red_flanders]

To add to elapid's list, wasn't it the 2000 Olympics when LA's radio was having problems all day and Ulrich and teamate were able to slip away from the breakaway and Lance didn't know they had gone until it was too late.

Never believed a word of it. He was past his peak and couldn't follow, and the unrealistic expectations the US media on him prompted him (IMO) to create an explanation.

If one followed the sport, unlike 99.9% of the US media, one would have known he was simply not on good form that late in the year.

 

[guilder]

Spoken like someone who has never seen a race without radios.

Radios make racing more predictable and boring. Any French Cup race is more exciting then a flat Tour stage where they time the catch to the second.

You speak like someone who thinks pro cycling doesn't need TV coverage.

My concern for a race radio ban is, when the sport suffers with the ban, how can the ill advised purveyors of the race radio ban be reasoned with?

Commercially the sport will suffer.

 

[Anonymous]

You speak like someone who thinks pro cycling doesn't need TV coverage.

My concern for a race radio ban is, when the sport suffers with the ban, how can the ill advised purveyors of the race radio ban be reasoned with?

Commercially the sport will suffer.

How will it suffer commercially? And how will a radio ban lead to a lack of TV coverage? What do radios add to TV at the moment?

 

[ScottyMuser]

talking of other sports with/without radios, AFAIK in football/cricket/rugby there have been discussions with regards to radios similar to use in Quaterbacks NFL, but it was decided it would lose interest, and radios WERE banned. They continue to be so. So CC, as usual, you are talking a load of BS.
What you of course are trying to argue, is without race radios it limits LA's ability to win/place highly as JB doesn't instruct his entire team for the duration of the race exactly what to do to help LA, and they have to think for themselves.

The Formula 1 race radios ARE secured initially, and they are then decoded by the FIA a few mins after - the intention being the other teams can't explicitly listen in to the race radio in Real Time in order to gain intelligence at what the others are doing, and therefore by the time the decoded audio comes out, the use of the information would be useless. I would imagine much the same for race radios in cycling, as I have NEVER heard of another team being able to listen to what team tactics are being planned on the radio.

 

[Race Radio]

You speak like someone who thinks pro cycling doesn't need TV coverage.

My concern for a race radio ban is, when the sport suffers with the ban, how can the ill advised purveyors of the race radio ban be reasoned with?

Commercially the sport will suffer.

I am sure even you realize your post makes no sense.

Radio's make for boring, predictable racing. If you want the sport to be more commercially viable improving the product is a good place to start.

 

[Carboncrank]

talking of other sports with/without radios, AFAIK in football/cricket/rugby there have been discussions with regards to radios similar to use in Quaterbacks NFL, but it was decided it would lose interest, and radios WERE banned. They continue to be so. So CC, as usual, you are talking a load of BS.
What you of course are trying to argue, is without race radios it limits LA's ability to win/place highly as JB doesn't instruct his entire team for the duration of the race exactly what to do to help LA, and they have to think for themselves.

My interest in the sport is in no way limited to what JB thinks.

The Formula 1 race radios ARE secured initially, and they are then decoded by the FIA a few mins after - the intention being the other teams can't explicitly listen in to the race radio in Real Time in order to gain intelligence at what the others are doing, and therefore by the time the decoded audio comes out, the use of the information would be useless. I would imagine much the same for race radios in cycling, as I have NEVER heard of another team being able to listen to what team tactics are being planned on the radio.

I'm just geeky enough that I like to look things up. I see your are right about Soccer banning radios. I don't find any such ban in the rule books of Rugby or Cricket, but I can't see of what use they'd be in cricket any more than they would be in baseball, and I can't imagine they'd last very long in Rugby.

All I know about F 1 radios is that I heard radio chatter used by TV broadcasts all the time.

Secure scrambled radios are expensive. I would doubt cycling teams spending that kind of money on them. Maybe they aren't as expensive as they used to be, so I could be wrong. To be sure, I've never noticed any fans with scanners at bicycle races.

The question was are they used in team sports.
What do we have so far.

Banned... Soccer.

Not banned... Baseball, football, Hockey, Basketball, All forms of Motor sport, and as far as I can tell, Rugby and Cricket.

There is no overriding concern that radios make teams sports less strategic or less challenging.

 

[Race Radio]

I'm just geeky enough that I like to look things up. I see your are right about Soccer banning radios. I don't find any such ban in the rule books of Rugby or Cricket, but I can't see of what use they'd be in cricket any more than they would be in baseball, and I can't imagine they'd last very long in Rugby.

All I know about F 1 radios is that I heard radio chatter used by TV broadcasts all the time.

Secure scrambled radios are expensive. I would doubt cycling teams spending that kind of money on them. Maybe they aren't as expensive as they used to be, so I could be wrong. To be sure, I've never noticed any fans with scanners at bicycle races.

The question was are they used in team sports.
What do we have so far.

Banned... Soccer.

Not banned... Baseball, football, Hockey, Basketball, All forms of Motor sport, and as far as I can tell, Rugby and Cricket.

There is no overriding concern that radios make teams sports less strategic or less challenging.

What does this have to do with cycling? I know you have a limited interest in the sport but cycling is not Rugby....or any of the others.

 

[bianchigirl]

Actually Hansie Cronje tried to use radio to communicate with the dressing room in the 1999 cricket world cup, which was promptly banned by the ICC. And of course we all know how Cronje turned out...

Rugby referres are miked up and I believe they've experimented with this in football (sorry, I refuse to call it soccer) but that's a far cry from coaching. I did enjoy this quote however: "nor should cricketers be turned into automatons programmed by teams of specialists". This is the situation that's developing in cycling, with the likes of Bruyneel telling their charges exactly when to pedal, when to get out of the saddle etc etc. If watching automata is your thing then it's great but it really lacks the spirit and the panache of the original.

 

[Runitout]

I'm just geeky enough that I like to look things up. I see your are right about Soccer banning radios. I don't find any such ban in the rule books of Rugby

They're not rules. They're Laws.

They're banned as dangerous projections.

 

[Carboncrank]

Actually Hansie Cronje tried to use radio to communicate with the dressing room in the 1999 cricket world cup, which was promptly banned by the ICC. And of course we all know how Cronje turned out...

Rugby referres are miked up and I believe they've experimented with this in football (sorry, I refuse to call it soccer) but that's a far cry from coaching. I did enjoy this quote however: "nor should cricketers be turned into automatons programmed by teams of specialists". This is the situation that's developing in cycling, with the likes of Bruyneel telling their charges exactly when to pedal, when to get out of the saddle etc etc. If watching automata is your thing then it's great but it really lacks the spirit and the panache of the original.

You know how I like to look stuff up. I'd think that in a sport like cricket that specfies how much of the color of a glove has to match the color of the shirt, they'd mention, oh by the way, no radios. But they don't.

http://static.icc-cricket.yahoo.net...40177329F4B40FE47C77AE2_1254318120933_587.pdf

http://icc-cricket.yahoo.net/rules_and_regulations.php

I looked at Ruby "laws" too but I see how they could be considered "dangerous projections". The ban in your football is probably based on that too. Still has nothing to do with strategy.

Why is this about Bruyneel in your head? He's far from the only DS who loves his radio.

 

[Carboncrank]

What does this have to do with cycling? I know you have a limited interest in the sport but cycling is not Rugby....or any of the others.

Thank you for your powerful insight.

 

[Walshworld]

Radio ban first, next TV ban.

Watch out, folks. The radios go first and then the full media-ban in the peloton goes into effect. They started with the biological passport and the intellectual passport is next. IQ meets VO2 max.
Twisted Spoke
http://walshworld.wordpress.com/2010/02/03/usa-cycling-bans-radios-is-tv-next/

 

[timmers]

Well you are only promoting your blog that isn't funny and lacks knowledge to north americans.Why don't you grow up and stop posting!

 

[Anonymous]

Well, you certainly aren't making it smarter by reducing communication throughout a team.

Depends whether you think cycling is more intelligent by either

a) the DS using radios to tell his riders what to do, while the riders dribble in their soup in the evenings waiting for daddy to tell them to USE A SPOON; or

b) riders thinking, making tactical calls, organising the team etc for themselves.

 

[Ripper]

I still have not heard a good argument as to why radios are so important to keep around.

Safety? Utter BS, nothing that good riding and other strategies from race organizers cannot overcome fairly easily. If anything, radios are more of a distraction.

Better TV? Are you serious? Predictable does not make better. TV would be much more entertaining if the ending were that much more of an unknown.

Communication within the team? I have seen, first hand, great communication in a team without radios. If a team needs radios for good communication, that team has bigger problems.

Other sports? Umm, so what?