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Radio Interview, Armstrong admits he is finished.

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FFWally said:
wow what got you riled up the past 3 years?

Have you been to a ride for roses or seen how much his presence does for cancer awareness worldwide.

He manned up and said he wasn't the better man. If it was you who won tours, you really think you would not have thought you could still do it?

Huh? There wasn't anything personal in what I said. Just factual observations.

As for Lance's reasons for coming back, I think raising cancer awareness was ancillary to his real goal. Obviously you may disagree, but in his mind this was always about recapturing his "shine" and returning to the top of the cycling world. He should have gone to another team instead of Astana who didn't need another GC candidate or the added drama.

He didn't man up, so much as have to acknowledge reality (what was he going to say, he's still trying to win???). He got a mudhole stomped into his a$$ and there wasn't anything he could do about it but accept it.
 
Ninety5rpm said:
It's bizarre to me that anyone who has ever really paid attention to how Armstrong talks and understood what he meant would be surprised, much less shocked, by these statements.

You can accuse him of bravado and arrogance, but he's always seemed very honest to me (well, except about that one topic).

That said, of course he was riding partially for his ego (and you think Contador, Evans, Schleck and Sastre are not?). And that part took a huge blow yesterday. Speaking of Sastre, that guy's ego is so hurt he's now whining about conspiracy theories. I think that articles was on velonews. His ego is still holding out for winning on Ventoux. LOL.

But, yeah, he's also seriously riding for cancer.

As I've said at least a few times before, the man is human. Therefore he is complex. You can't put him in a box like "only rides for ego", "only rides for cancer", "is not always honest about absolutely everything therefore is dishonest". You're not that simplistic, why would you expect one of the greatest athletes of all time to be?

+1. I agree with most of what you wrote. Where he manned up to me is that he stood in front of the camera's yesterday and tried to put a brave face on what had to be an excruciating day both physically and emotionally. I'm not going to give him credit for acknowledging that Contador is the better man, because that's an undisputable proposition at this point. But being there and having to endure it, that takes a lot. Just ask LeBron James... :rolleyes:
 
May 26, 2009
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Far as I'm concerned Armstrong's just shown a great deal of class. Props to him, that would have taken some self control and guts, given the pressure and attention.
 
A

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goober said:
Did you understand his comments after stage 3? "Co-leader" was not in regards to "race leader of the team". After stage 4 he made this quite clear: "There are two ways to define leader within this team. You can be the strongest one who is the leader that wins; but, you can also, if you are not the strongest, you can also be the team leader because you have experience, age, and trust of the other riders - that might be my role...".

As a professional Psychologist, you are incredibly poor at assessing anything. Seriously, do you actually get paid for doing that job? Just because you have a job answering the phone for the Psychic Friends Network does not mean you are a Psychologist...
 
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yourwelcome said:
Far as I'm concerned Armstrong's just shown a great deal of class. Props to him, that would have taken some self control and guts, given the pressure and attention.

My welcome?
 
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Ninety5rpm said:
It's bizarre to me that anyone who has ever really paid attention to how Armstrong talks and understood what he meant would be surprised, much less shocked, by these statements.

You can accuse him of bravado and arrogance, but he's always seemed very honest to me (well, except about that one topic).

That said, of course he was riding partially for his ego (and you think Contador, Evans, Schleck and Sastre are not?). And that part took a huge blow yesterday. Speaking of Sastre, that guy's ego is so hurt he's now whining about conspiracy theories. I think that articles was on velonews. His ego is still holding out for winning on Ventoux. LOL.

But, yeah, he's also seriously riding for cancer.

As I've said at least a few times before, the man is human. Therefore he is complex. You can't put him in a box like "only rides for ego", "only rides for cancer", "is not always honest about absolutely everything therefore is dishonest". You're not that simplistic, why would you expect one of the greatest athletes of all time to be?

+1 I like to think that this thinking represents the + or - 1 SD area on the bell curve
 
Thoughtforfood said:
goober said:
Publicus said:
I'm not sure why you are surprised, this has been Lance's operating procedure during this Tour. Pre-Stage 1 he was talking about how great he felt, that his form was as good as during his spectacular run at the Tour, that he was there to win and that Contador was leader for NOW. After Stage 1, he was stressing that he was almost 38, almost 4 years away from cycling, that he hadn't raced in a month.

After Stage 3, he unfurled his "I'm a 7-Time TdF winner, I deserve a little credit. I should be a co-leader of this team". Was also what was driving his anger on Arcalis.

Now we are back to humbled Lance. Saying he's 38, doesn't have the top end like he use to, yada, yada. Acknowledging reality after it has stomped a mudhole in your a$$ doesn't deserve a pat on the back.
Did you understand his comments after stage 3? "Co-leader" was not in regards to "race leader of the team". After stage 4 he made this quite clear: "There are two ways to define leader within this team. You can be the strongest one who is the leader that wins; but, you can also, if you are not the strongest, you can also be the team leader because you have experience, age, and trust of the other riders - that might be my role...".
As a professional Psychologist, you are incredibly poor at assessing anything. Seriously, do you actually get paid for doing that job? Just because you have a job answering the phone for the Psychic Friends Network does not mean you are a Psychologist...
Are these personal attacks (in red) really necessary?

That said, I agree with goober's point. Lance has been clear and consistent about what he has said about the team's leadership all the way through, and now he's just following through, as he always does just as reliably, probably more reliably, than anyone I've ever met or have heard about.
 
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Jayarbie said:
The other problem Armstrong has is that he never faced a rider as challenging as Contador in his prime. Ullrich was a great rider, but Ullrich was a time trialist who didn't have the explosion in the mountains, and since Armstrong could beat him in both disciplines, he didn't pose as great of a challenge to Lance as he did to other riders. The coked-out, post-doping Pantani was never a real threat during Lance's run, Zulle was at the end of his career, and the real mountain goats of the peloton like Heras & Escartin of Kelme and Mayo were bound to lose multiple minutes in the time trials, even if they occassionally left Lance behind on the big climbs (like Mayo on Alpe d'Huez).

For sure, Lance has lost something since his peak in 2000-2002, but I would have loved to see the Contador of 2009 vs the Lance of 2001 head-to-head year after year. I don't think Lance would have won 7 in a row with that caliber of competition.

Yes he did! Pantani, Vino, Heras, Basso, Ullrich, Beloki, Kloden! Ullrich may have been a TTler, BUT don't forget he beat the likes of Pantani! Lance excelled in both mountains and TTs! Remember he won the ITT( in front of specialists) aswell as mountain stages! He got old and his body is not the same! But he's still a great champion! Honestly he proved me wrong! I followed his victories and those of other and I was affraid he will be a bust at old age!
 
Belokki said:
Yes he did! Pantani, Vino, Heras, Basso, Ullrich, Beloki, Kloden! Ullrich may have been a TTler, BUT don't forget he beat the likes of Pantani! Lance excelled in both mountains and TTs! Remember he won the ITT( in front of specialists) aswell as mountain stages! He got old and his body is not the same! But he's still a great champion! Honestly he proved me wrong! I followed his victories and those of other and I was affraid he will be a bust at old age!
Methinks Contador is in a different league from even those climbers.
 
Ninety5rpm said:
Are these personal attacks really necessary?

That said, I agree with goober's point. Lance has been clear and consistent about what he has said about the team's leadership all the way through, and now he's just following through, as he always does just as reliably, probably more reliably, than anyone I've ever met or have heard about.

Nothing personal about my comments. Just a factual observation.
 
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Ninety5rpm said:
Methinks Contador is in a different league from even those climbers.

I don't think so (yet), Pantani climbed L'Alpe D'Huez in 35:50 (I know Wikipedia guy quoted 37:03, but back then it was over a longer distance), LA did 37:04 at his peak, although it was a TT. I would like to see the guy's speed up this climb. Even then, hard to compare, Pantani's bike weight was probably around 19-20 pounds as oposed to today's 15-16 lb machines.

BTW: I am sorry for the dark, dark day you had yesterday :D
 
indurain666 said:
I don't think so (yet), Pantani climbed L'Alpe D'Huez in 35:50 (I know Wikipedia guy quoted 37:03, but back then it was over a longer distance), LA did 37:04 at his peak, although it was a TT. I would like to see the guy's speed up this climb. Even then, hard to compare, Pantani's bike weight was probably around 19-20 pounds as oposed to today's 15-16 lb machines.

BTW: I am sorry for the dark, dark day you had yesterday :D

Pantani's time was at the peak of the EPO era as was Armstrongs. Wonder what they would have done without or less EPO. (oh I nearly forgot Armstrong never failed a drugs test)

ruamruam:D
 
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Zen Master said:
From denverpost.com 28.06.2009
The seven-time Tour de France winner is now a Coloradan. Coming out of a 3 1/2-year retirement, Armstrong built a $9 million house in Aspen and will live much of the year here. Just maybe these 20-mile daily training grinds up Independence Pass will help him win Tour No. 8 when the Tour de France begins Saturday in Monaco

WTF does this have to do with anything? He likes Aspen (great place, ever been there?). He's got the money and built a house (bully for him. money is the american way, wish I has the money to live there).
 
Publicus said:
Nothing personal about my comments. Just a factual observation.
Sorry, I did not mean to imply your comments were personal attacks - I just included your (innermost) post for context for the second paragraph of my post.

EDIT: I've updated that post to identify the personal attacks I was referring to in red.
 
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yourwelcome said:
Far as I'm concerned Armstrong's just shown a great deal of class. Props to him, that would have taken some self control and guts, given the pressure and attention.

what a steaming pile of crotch sniffing bs.

what was he going to say after Contador stomped him and he got dropped by wiggins, schleck, evans (on his self confessed worst tour day ever!).

"yeah, I'm strong, I was just holding back. I can still win it all..."
Like Month Python's legless black knight - "it's just a flesh wound.."

it does not take class, self control or guts to admit something that 10s of millions of people just saw as fact.

He didn't have what it takes. Too bad for him, but to give him props for stating the obvious is ****ery.
 
indurain666 said:
I don't think so (yet), Pantani climbed L'Alpe D'Huez in 35:50 (I know Wikipedia guy quoted 37:03, but back then it was over a longer distance), LA did 37:04 at his peak, although it was a TT. I would like to see the guy's speed up this climb. Even then, hard to compare, Pantani's bike weight was probably around 19-20 pounds as oposed to today's 15-16 lb machines.

BTW: I am sorry for the dark, dark day you had yesterday :D
19-20 lbs for a pro's bike in the late 90s? No weigh! (pun intended).
I had 19 lb bike in the mid 70s!
 
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Ninety5rpm said:
Are these personal attacks (in red) really necessary?

That said, I agree with goober's point. Lance has been clear and consistent about what he has said about the team's leadership all the way through, and now he's just following through, as he always does just as reliably, probably more reliably, than anyone I've ever met or have heard about.

Don't worry about the attacks. One of my students is writing a thesis and it actually includes this forum; hence, how I got here. The thesis actually has some great examples of delusionary/irrational sports fans (in spite of invalidating evidence) and how they use a public forum to satisfy their mindset.
 
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Jayarbie said:
I think he will be able to limit losses in the next two stages and then win the ITT (or at least beat everyone except maybe Contador and Cancellara).

Not sure what you are basing this thought on. The latest data point we have is his 10th place finish in the opening ITT, which contained a cat 4 climb, whereas the Annecy route is longer and contains a cat 3 climb. Why do you think this is so much better suited to him - at least 7 places better ? I see no evidence that he can beat Canc, Contador, Wiggins, Martin and Kloeden. Nibali and Kreuziger may also take him.
 
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goober said:
Don't worry about the attacks. One of my students is writing a thesis and it actually includes this forum; hence, how I got here. The thesis actually has some great examples of delusionary/irrational sports fans (in spite of invalidating evidence) and how they use a public forum to satisfy their mindset.

This place must be a goldmine for your student! :D
 
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DavidT said:
Not sure what you are basing this thought on. The latest data point we have is his 10th place finish in the opening ITT, which contained a cat 4 climb, whereas the Annecy route is longer and contains a cat 3 climb. Why do you think this is so much better suited to him - at least 7 places better ? I see no evidence that he can beat Canc, Contador, Wiggins, Martin and Kloeden. Nibali and Kreuziger may also take him.

I'm basing it on my own intuition, based on 25 years of watching professional bike racing. Obviously, there is no current data that substantiates that position, but rather, just my subjective opinion. As far as 7 places better, that's nothing, the order of finish from the first ITT to this one will change by a lot more than that.
 

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