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Radio Interview, Armstrong admits he is finished.

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I wish I could believe his words, but he's used this kind of language in the past, where he tell everybody that he's going to take it easy and then he slaps his competition with a surprise-and honestly is kind of drippy for someone who's in contention placing 2nd at the GC to say his bid for the tour is over... very suspicious to me though....
 
goober said:
Don't worry about the attacks. One of my students is writing a thesis and it actually includes this forum; hence, how I got here. The thesis actually has some great examples of delusionary/irrational sports fans (in spite of invalidating evidence) and how they use a public forum to satisfy their mindset.


All I can say is, I think your student should maybe look into the reasons why Lance chased down Filippo Simeoni in 2004 and then explain why so many longtime cycling fans dont like LA.

To me Lance is just like David Beckham, whose media profile outwieghs his footballing talents by about 100 to 1. I would never consider Beckham as one of the Top 5 footballers in the world at any stage of his career but ask anybody on the street to name a top footballer, they will inevitably name Beckham and I know that frustrates a lot of football fans.

Now Lance is way superior to Beckham in his sporting talent and achievements but is Lance far superior to Indurain or Merckx, no but look at their respective media profiles.

The US is a huge untapped market for cycling so every English speaking media outlet, bike related company etc is jumping on the Lance bandwagon trying to make a buck. An average cycling fan is not interested in profits for magazines or bike companies, they want to read and hear about the sport in general but all we get is Lance, Lance and more Lance all in the name of profiteering.

An example, a cycling magazine I read featured Lance on their front cover, either alone or shared on every issue from April to September in 2005. There was 20 pages on Lance in every issue bar one and a whole edition was dedicated to him following his Tour victory. This after 7 years of coverage being focused on Lance.

In the intervening years since his retirement, cycling media coverage became more widespread and balanced. Once Lance announced his comeback, its back to the old days with Lance articles everywhere and on the front covers every few issues. Surely people can understand why this would turn people against any athlete, even Tiger Woods or Roger Federer dont get this level of coverage in their respective sports. It is called over saturation.

If you want, you can direct your student to me and I will happily explain in detail why Lance is disliked by many.
 
Jul 6, 2009
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jaylew said:
Interesting to hear:

"We are ready to sacrifice everything to have Alberto in the yellow jersey in Paris: the teams standings and Lance's second place," Astana sports director Alain Gallopin told Reuters on Monday.

Of course they are. Did you expect anything different? Winning the yellow jersey in Paris is always the #1 goal of any team. Any DS for any team that says "yeah, we're the favorites to win in Paris, but we're willing to jeopardize the MJ for a shot at the team title" won't be a DS for very long. With that said, within the confines of not jeopardizing Contador's place in any way, they will still try to keep Lance in 2nd and win the team competition as well. They need only play defense at this point and Lance and Klodi both showed that they can ride at the front of the race...
 
Jul 3, 2009
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autologous said:
it does not take class, self control or guts to admit something that 10s of millions of people just saw as fact.

He didn't have what it takes. Too bad for him, but to give him props for stating the obvious is ****ery.

If it's so easy, then why will so few in this very forum stand up and say "I was wrong" in front of a few dozen people they've never met when their TdF prediction turn out drastically wrong.
 
Jul 3, 2009
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elapid said:
Armstrong was going for the win, but was found wanting on Verbier. He did a great job for a 37 year old, but does not have the legs to match riders 10+ years his junior. But, because he couldn't climb with the likes of Contador, Andy Schleck, Wiggins, etc and admits it doesn't mean that he is not/was not riding for the win. He is just facing the unfortunate reality we all face as we get older: we slow down!

I'm going to have to disagree. I don't think anyone in the peloton, including AC, would be performing any better considering 3+ years of retirement and relatively few racing miles coming into the race. If he had been racing again for a year or so, then you could blame his age. There have been plenty of other examples that disprove the age theory (e.g. Jeannie Longo, Dara Torres, etc.) as an absolute truth.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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pmcg76 said:
If you want, you can direct your student to me and I will happily explain in detail why Lance is disliked by many.

Unlike the hate brigade, you make your points reasonably and sensibly and, as far as I recall, without abuse and insult. That's fine. You are entitled to dislike the Lance global media overkill, I do too. You are entitled to dislike him as a person, no problem. What I, and numerous others have issues with, is the constant stream of truly hateful and abusive invective directed by a handful here at anyone unfortunate enough to be a new poster and express some degree of liking for Lance.

That, and the pathological knee jerk reactions by a few at the mere mention of LA. People here go OTT all the time, and that just shouldn't happen in an adult, and supposedly moderated forum.

Maybe everyone should put a note in their signatures to identify themselves to all concerned? Some options -

I love Lance
I like Lance
I am indifferent about Lance
I dislike Lance
I hate Lance
Lance is the devil incarnate
Don't mention LA or I'll go ballistic and explode

;)
 
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Anonymous

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goober said:
Don't worry about the attacks. One of my students is writing a thesis and it actually includes this forum; hence, how I got here. The thesis actually has some great examples of delusionary/irrational sports fans (in spite of invalidating evidence) and how they use a public forum to satisfy their mindset.



Then I sincerely hope they are focusing on the fanboy syndrome which denies any evidence that contradicts the claims of their hero. I also hope that they focus some time on the pitfalls of trying to identify personality traits based on postings on an anonymous forum.

Then again, I don't buy your "professional Psychologist" tap dance anyway. I used to work in a psych hospital and have know many phychiatrists and psychologists; most wouldn't think of doing something as unethical and stupid as identifying themselves and proffering knee jerk reactions and then presenting them as a diagnosis. That, and I didn't know students at a Community Colleges were required to write a thesis.

I will give you this, you can claim to be anything you want on the internet. This forum has proven that time and again. Then again, so has most every forum.
 
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Coach Hawk said:
If it's so easy, then why will so few in this very forum stand up and say "I was wrong" in front of a few dozen people they've never met when their TdF prediction turn out drastically wrong.

1. Because it is impossible to "stand up" on a forum
2. Because there is no live audience
3. Several have admitted they were wrong in their predictions.(including me, I never have a problem admitting I was wrong. It is an outstanding characteristic of humankind to be wrong. No biggie to admit that my prognostications were off. Only I was right about Armstrong.) The group I see absent from that are the fanboys who were predicting a win by Armstrong. Kinda quite on that front yesterday and today.
 
May 12, 2009
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Jayarbie said:
Of course they are. Did you expect anything different? Winning the yellow jersey in Paris is always the #1 goal of any team. Any DS for any team that says "yeah, we're the favorites to win in Paris, but we're willing to jeopardize the MJ for a shot at the team title" won't be a DS for very long. With that said, within the confines of not jeopardizing Contador's place in any way, they will still try to keep Lance in 2nd and win the team competition as well. They need only play defense at this point and Lance and Klodi both showed that they can ride at the front of the race...

The interesting thing is that Kloden looked stronger than Lance on that last hill. If this continues, would JB/Astana let Kloden drop Lance to get a podium place, even if it meant sacrificing Lance's podium?
 
jaylew said:
Interesting to hear:

"We are ready to sacrifice everything to have Alberto in the yellow jersey in Paris: the teams standings and Lance's second place," Astana sports director Alain Gallopin told Reuters on Monday.

Very good to hear. Saxo Bank is going to try and throw everything at them tomorrow and Wednesday.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Publicus said:
Very good to hear. Saxo Bank is going to try and throw everything at them tomorrow and Wednesday.

Since Columbia shot themselves in the foot with green, I think Martin will be allowed to aim for as high as he can get, but he certainly has to take the fight for white to Schleklet (if he can).
 
Jun 29, 2009
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cancer survivor said:
Lance has always stated and made it clear that he was riding to promote a global effort against cancer. He never needed another Tour win or to be drug tested every couple of weeks or have all the media hassle him. It was always about cancer. Whether you like Lance or not, 1 of 2 men will be diagnosed and 1 of 3 women. What he's working/riding for will benefit you!The media just didn't cover the cancer part of the comeback because it's not sexy news. He is riding pretty good racing against guys much younger though!

I highlighted your comment that is flat out not true. Lance Armstrong is a commercial venture. His actions promote his commercial venture. The vast majority of each dollar raised also goes to promote his commercial venture. It does not benefit me. I could go on about why it doesn't benefit an individual like myself, like most 'foundations', but then the debate would be esoteric and not worth engaging in with a true believer.
 
Jayarbie said:
Of course they are. Did you expect anything different? Winning the yellow jersey in Paris is always the #1 goal of any team. Any DS for any team that says "yeah, we're the favorites to win in Paris, but we're willing to jeopardize the MJ for a shot at the team title" won't be a DS for very long. With that said, within the confines of not jeopardizing Contador's place in any way, they will still try to keep Lance in 2nd and win the team competition as well. They need only play defense at this point and Lance and Klodi both showed that they can ride at the front of the race...

It's not the idea. That's a no-brainer. Just didn't know if they would come out publicly and say they're willing to sacrifice Lance's 2nd as the team has been a bit delicate with the Lance issue so far. I will be very curious to see how Lance and particularly Kloden race the next few days. Will Kloden be at AC's side protecting him and covering attacks or will he be LA's shepherd? For that matter, will we see Lance chasing down attacks for AC?
 
hfer07 said:
I wish I could believe his words, but he's used this kind of language in the past, where he tell everybody that he's going to take it easy and then he slaps his competition with a surprise-and honestly is kind of drippy for someone who's in contention placing 2nd at the GC to say his bid for the tour is over... very suspicious to me though....

Well, if this is typical of how you interpret his words, no wonder you have trouble believing him. Of course someone is going to appear to be dishonest if you understand his words to mean something other than what he meant.

For example, Armstrong did not say he's going to take it easy.

And there's nothing in what he said that would preclude him from taking advantage of a situation that presents himself. If Alberto has a particularly bad day in the mountains, or a really bad ITT, for example, then he might still go for it on Ventoux. If he can.
 
klodifan said:
I highlighted your comment that is flat out not true. Lance Armstrong is a commercial venture. His actions promote his commercial venture. The vast majority of each dollar raised also goes to promote his commercial venture. It does not benefit me. I could go on about why it doesn't benefit an individual like myself, like most 'foundations', but then the debate would be esoteric and not worth engaging in with a true believer.
I'm sure Lance does much more for cancer survivors than you. 'Nuff said.
 
slcbiker said:
The interesting thing is that Kloden looked stronger than Lance on that last hill. If this continues, would JB/Astana let Kloden drop Lance to get a podium place, even if it meant sacrificing Lance's podium?

The answer, at least as implied by Alain G's comment, is unequivocally yes. No one is going to back to pace Lance up any mountains a la Giro.
 
Jun 30, 2009
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Jayarbie said:
I'm basing it on my own intuition, based on 25 years of watching professional bike racing. Obviously, there is no current data that substantiates that position, but rather, just my subjective opinion. As far as 7 places better, that's nothing, the order of finish from the first ITT to this one will change by a lot more than that.

But what is it you learned in those 25 years of watching that makes you believe that Armstrong will beat all 3 of Wiggins, Martin and Kloeden in the TT? Or is this just a faith thing?
 
Amsterhammer said:
Since Columbia shot themselves in the foot with green, I think Martin will be allowed to aim for as high as he can get, but he certainly has to take the fight for white to Schleklet (if he can).

I agree, though I think his goal should be to limit his losses in the mountains and try to win it during the TT.

Here's what I want to know, which one of the aspiring podium candidates will look to forge an alliance with Contador to bury Wiggins on the mountain stages. Contador wants more time into him ahead of the TT and it would seem a little collusion with Baby Schleck would work out best for both of them--since I have seen ZERO evidence that Baby Schleck can drop Contador or frankly hold his wheel if he decides to go. Or Maybe Sastre or Evans would be more compliant at this point because they are so far back.
 
Jul 17, 2009
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Publicus said:
I agree, though I think his goal should be to limit his losses in the mountains and try to win it during the TT.

Here's what I want to know, which one of the aspiring podium candidates will look to forge an alliance with Contador to bury Wiggins on the mountain stages. Contador wants more time into him ahead of the TT and it would seem a little collusion with Baby Schleck would work out best for both of them--since I have seen ZERO evidence that Baby Schleck can drop Contador or frankly hold his wheel if he decides to go. Or Maybe Sastre or Evans would be more compliant at this point because they are so far back.

ummm. maybe Lance will take on that role :D
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Publicus said:
I have seen ZERO evidence that Baby Schleck can drop Contador or frankly hold his wheel if he decides to go. Or Maybe Sastre or Evans would be more compliant at this point because they are so far back.

I don't think anyone can hold AC's wheel when he goes at the end of the final climb. At some point, some combination of the other 'contenders' are going to have to try and get a surprise jump on Astana (from what we've seen so far, fat chance) and try and stay out ahead till the end. I reckon that if either Schleklet or Martin (or as you suggest, Evans or Sastre too) try it on, the other will be obliged to go too. That might finally give us a whole day's racing worth watching!
 
Jul 5, 2009
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goober said:
Don't worry about the attacks. One of my students is writing a thesis and it actually includes this forum; hence, how I got here. The thesis actually has some great examples of delusionary/irrational sports fans (in spite of invalidating evidence) and how they use a public forum to satisfy their mindset.

I call BS.

What institution do you represent? What's your full title and credentials? I'll even give you bonus points if you can fully quote your "student's" thesis statement. You'll be vindicated if you can detail the test methods and observational techniques your student is using.

John Swanson
http://www.bikephysics.com
 
goober said:
ummm. maybe Lance will take on that role :D

I would love it if Lance pulls a Landis 2004. I don't see it happening because, based on yesterday and just watching him, he doesn't have the legs to stay with either Schleck Brother or Wiggins (which is saying a whole lot at this point) when they accelerate. Maybe he will have a better day tomorrow and Wednesday and demonstrate that he can cover the attacks so Contador just has to hold his wheel. But Contador can follow wheels with the best of them (See Dauphine Libere 2009), so I don't see him waiting around for Lance to bridge over at the risk of losing contact.
 
Jul 6, 2009
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slcbiker said:
The interesting thing is that Kloden looked stronger than Lance on that last hill. If this continues, would JB/Astana let Kloden drop Lance to get a podium place, even if it meant sacrificing Lance's podium?

Yes, but not so much to "get" Kloden a podium place, but because they won't have anyone drop back and protect Lance if he falters when they could be hanging with Contador instead.
 

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