Radioshack cyclist's house searched.

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not likely

BotanyBay said:
...the emails get copied on the intermediate servers in-between.
Finally! Somthing I know about. Novitsky's team would be lucky if a provider has it. lottery-winning lucky. Most providers don't retain email for very long. The best place to find it is on a user's computer. Who knows what kind of compliance weisel did or didn't do.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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DirtyWorks said:
Finally! Somthing I know about. Novitsky's team would be lucky if a provider has it. lottery-winning lucky. Most providers don't retain email for very long. The best place to find it is on a user's computer. Who knows what kind of compliance weisel did or didn't do.
It seems to me that there would be a good chance that gmail, yahoo, hotmail, or any one of a number of U.S. companies would be used for one end of communication. All of those, but especially google, could have retained information.

The real danger to Armstrong and co. may be what has passed between others during the last six to eight months. Who knows what a true moron like McQuaid might have sent people. McQuaid is the idiot who put everyone in this situation by blacklisting FLandis.

I think Armstrong and Bruyneel have been very paranoid for a long time. FLandis' description of how transfusions were done at the Tour in 2002 shows that even back then they were thinking about what kind of surveillance they might be subject to.
 
May 26, 2010
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BroDeal said:
It seems to me that there would be a good chance that gmail, yahoo, hotmail, or any one of a number of U.S. companies would be used for one end of communication. All of those, but especially google, could have retained information.

The real danger to Armstrong and co. may be what has passed between others during the last six to eight months. Who knows what a true moron like McQuaid might have sent people. McQuaid is the idiot who put everyone in this situation by blacklisting FLandis.

I think Armstrong and Bruyneel have been very paranoid for a long time. FLandis' description of how transfusions were done at the Tour in 2002 shows that even back then they were thinking about what kind of surveillance they might be subject to.

It might be the first route a federal investigation takes in the 21st century, accessing servers to look for evidence.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
It might be the first route a federal investigation takes in the 21st century, accessing servers to look for evidence.
I think that would be the primary location to look. I only use web-based mail. E-mail would only exist in memory or briefly in the swap space, where it would be quickly overwritten.
 
Apr 13, 2010
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TexPat said:
Thanks. It's Anderson from Scotland, not Andersen from Denmark.
And I certainly detected an unfriendly tone there, too. That's fine---I've heard far worse. Hats off to the media machine for reducing my role with Armstrong to poolboy. Truly golden.
Tech-savvy? Security-minded? Hardly.
Case in point: If you had a Blackberry with a list of telephone numbers that included a who's who of the powerful and famous (e.g. the POTUS ), would you pass it off to your assistant as a hand-me-down without removing those details first?
What about your old laptop? Would you just hand that over without cleaning it out first?
Just read your "third amended answer and second amended counterclaim" here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/24714560/Michael-Anderson-s-Testimony-On-Lance-Armstrong-Doping

Certainly makes for interesting reading - not least the bits about how you had to protect LA on his training rides against motorists.
Hats off to you for standing up for yourself and not hiding.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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TexPat said:
Thanks. It's Anderson from Scotland, not Andersen from Denmark.
And I certainly detected an unfriendly tone there, too. That's fine---I've heard far worse. Hats off to the media machine for reducing my role with Armstrong to poolboy. Truly golden.
Tech-savvy? Security-minded? Hardly.
Case in point: If you had a Blackberry with a list of telephone numbers that included a who's who of the powerful and famous (e.g. the POTUS ), would you pass it off to your assistant as a hand-me-down without removing those details first?
What about your old laptop? Would you just hand that over without cleaning it out first?
Wow, I apologize. I did not mean to be "mean". Yes, I read the affidavit and the impression I got was that Lance hires you as one thing and then just dumps all the crap he doesn't want to do himself on that person. It was more a slant towards Lance, not TexPat. As I wrote to him personally last week, I respect Mike a lot, and I thanked him for making his stand against Lance.

I got the impression from Mike's affidavit that Lance is pretty cheap when it comes to his assistants. He seemed to expect such a multi-faceted role from Mike, I would not expect him to shell-out money for someone who specializes in computer tomfoolery. And I'm sure that now, I'll discover that Mike is a Computer Science PhD too, right?
 
Oct 25, 2010
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python said:
botany, this post quoted above, though it jives with mine and many other users arguments about texas, is an indication that you're trolling.

why would you need to indirectly and caustically ridicule the user we all know is texpat and who publicly admitted being mr andersen ?

i don't like your style and your manners. sir.
Ridicule or trolling was not my intent. My take on Mike's Affidavit was that Lance HIRES you as one thing and before long, you're his poolboy too (among other jobs). In other words, he's cheap. Because he's so cheap that he makes his personal assistant clean his pool (ever heard of pool maintenance contractors?), he's probably sloppy with his computer communications. For those who think he's busy shredding and deleting, I doubt he's actually succeeding in purging anything of value. He ain't no tech guy.
 
Aug 17, 2009
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I am pretty sure Lance would not care about Popos hard-drive.
Why would Lance care about some downloaded Ukrainian folk tunes and Traditional Kosak dances. Novitzky has sent the hard-drives to the NSA to decipher the cryptographs of doping codes.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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Besides, deleting emails and erasing hard drives is evidence too (that you were destroying something). No matter what he does, he can't hide.
 
Aug 17, 2009
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BotanyBay said:
Besides, deleting emails and erasing hard drives is evidence too (that you were destroying something). No matter what he does, he can't hide.
Only an idiot tries to hide anything on the computers. There are records everywhere. Isn't all stored on a server somewhere in cyberspace?
 
Oct 25, 2010
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flicker said:
Only an idiot tries to hide anything on the computers. There are records everywhere. Isn't all stored on a server somewhere in cyberspace?
Even if the message content isn't (but it probably is), there's always a time-stamped log of the activity itself. Some people think Novitzky's strategy was blown by the Italians searching Popo's home. I doubt that, as the communications are always more interesting than the drugs. If they feared Popo so much, they'd have just held him in the USA (against his will) as a material witness.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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BotanyBay said:
Even if the message content isn't (but it probably is), there's always a time-stamped log of the activity itself. Some people think Novitzky's strategy was blown by the Italians searching Popo's home. I doubt that, as the communications are always more interesting than the drugs. If they feared Popo so much, they'd have just held him in the USA (against his will) as a material witness.
Popo's hard drive may mean nothing. Interpol applying pressure over another issue may compel him to "rethink" any testimony he provided during his Texas stay. His contradictions that may border on perjury could have nothing at all to do with the USADA case except they provide leverage to the prosecution. Catch him with kiddie porn and extract a statement on USPS.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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Oldman said:
Popo's hard drive may mean nothing. Interpol applying pressure over another issue may compel him to "rethink" any testimony he provided during his Texas stay. His contradictions that may border on perjury could have nothing at all to do with the USADA case except they provide leverage to the prosecution. Catch him with kiddie porn and extract a statement on USPS.
I'm guessing that Popo angered them with a "lack of cooperation" in Los Angeles and Novitzky got on the phone and told the Italians.
 
Some of you are referring to getting a single user's emails from the likes of Microsoft, Yahoo (now, mostly Microsoft) and Google like the admin browses to a folder, makes an archive and sends it off. No. Data retention is data at rest and data at rest is the source of most data compromises.

1. *If* the data is being stored, it is not easy to retrieve.
2. Data storage costs lots of money at their scale. If they go cheap, the data is off on tape. Either way, the legal dept. always requires current regulation compliance, but minimize liabilities associated with keeping someone else's personal communication.
My point being, it's not the sure thing some of you want it to be.

BroDeal said:
I think that would be the primary location to look. I only use web-based mail. E-mail would only exist in memory or briefly in the swap space, where it would be quickly overwritten.
BroDeal, that's not how a file system works. ***Everything*** you see in a browser is written to disk. Most consumers disks are so large the "empty" space created by "delete" operations never gets over-written. That's why I keep hammering away at the investigators needing a person who was frequently cc'd on email. It's probably still there. It's not hard to get either. Time consuming, but not difficult.

Weisel would be a good target for data forensics because, he's probably like most business people who totally ignore the consequences of mixing communications to gain some convenience. He probably mixes his USAC, Financial business, Tailwind email communications. It's likely Weisel's Financial office operations have some archives with content of interest to the investigation. The SEC has strict rules about data retention. Of course, that has never stopped anyone from ignoring the SEC's regs.

Hopefully, a strong case for the prosecution will not come down to needing to do data forensics on a number of disks.
 
Jun 12, 2010
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While on the subject of forensics. Re mobile phone records , I believe these can establish were abouts both when making calls and when on standby (?).
These may also prove usefull if wereabouts contradicts testement given.
I`d 100% agree that Weisel`s digital record is likly to be a major source of daming info.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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Darryl Webster said:
While on the subject of forensics. Re mobile phone records , I believe these can establish were abouts both when making calls and when on standby (?).
These may also prove usefull if wereabouts contradicts testement given.
I`d 100% agree that Weisel`s digital record is likly to be a major source of daming info.

Cell phone towers can do a lot, and the combination of Weisel, Och, Armstrong, Landis, Lim and other folk's communications will (with proper analysis) tell quite a tale.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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DirtyWorks said:
BroDeal, that's not how a file system works. ***Everything*** you see in a browser is written to disk. Most consumers disks are so large the "empty" space created by "delete" operations never gets over-written. That's why I keep hammering away at the investigators needing a person who was frequently cc'd on email. It's probably still there. It's not hard to get either. Time consuming, but not difficult.
So you think that for every page that you view your browser writes the HTML, CSS, and images to a file on your hard disk and it just sits there until the end of time, never to be overwritten by subsequent uses of the browser or other programs that need temporary space? Uh...okaaaaay. Yeah....I am sure that the browser also takes periodic snapshots of pages displaying an AJAX based web mail page and saves them too.

If your browser uses a cache of half a gig then every time you fire up the browser, it uses a different half gig of the hard disk for cache. Because of this you can take your total hard disk space, divide it by a half a gig, and calculate how many times you can execute your browser. After that the disk is all filled up and you need to throw the computer away because there is no more room. ;)

I had better check my Linux box. Every available bit on the hard disk must be filled with outdated pr0n pages by now.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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DirtyWorks said:
BroDeal, that's not how a file system works. ***Everything*** you see in a browser is written to disk. Most consumers disks are so large the "empty" space created by "delete" operations never gets over-written. .
It's written according to how big your cache is, and that's short term at best.

But even if an investigator can't see precisely what you've surfed by looking at your browser or machine, there are many breadcrumbs left behind (in places other than your computer) that indicate where you've been. They'll quickly go find that information and see for themselves what you've been doing.

If they want to find your Gmail, they will (even if you think you've deleted it). If they want your text messages, they'll get those too. If they want to know where you were last year at 9PM, they'll get the cell tower data and call logs. It's all kept. Even if you don't have a phone or a computer, a video camera somewhere has tracked your movements today.

"Getting away with it" is merely an old 80's pop song by Electronic now:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Im wondering about the popo raid. The assumption so far has been the following.

1/Popo testifies before a grand jury and denies any knowledge of everything
2/Popo's house is raided.

Could the following not be true.

1/ Popo testifies before a grand jury, tells everything, and says, by the way, theres a ton of evidence at my apartment, come get it
2/ Popos house is "raided" with his permission but made to look like he is not co-operating
 
Mar 18, 2009
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TeamSkyFans said:
Could the following not be true.

1/ Popo testifies before a grand jury, tells everything, and says, by the way, theres a ton of evidence at my apartment, come get it
2/ Popos house is "raided" with his permission but made to look like he is not co-operating
Seems way way out there.

I am betting on the Popo raid not being unrelated to the FDA investigation. After Disco he had to fend for himself. We saw how well that went by his performance on Lotto. The Italians have become good at rolling up doping networks. I would not be surprised if information that DiLuca gave about his suppliers to get his suspension reduced is what led to Popo. In fact I think that is a lot more likely than a collaboration between the Italians and the FDA.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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TeamSkyFans said:
Im wondering about the popo raid. The assumption so far has been the following.

1/Popo testifies before a grand jury and denies any knowledge of everything
2/Popo's house is raided.

Could the following not be true.

1/ Popo testifies before a grand jury, tells everything, and says, by the way, theres a ton of evidence at my apartment, come get it
2/ Popos house is "raided" with his permission but made to look like he is not co-operating
I think they "invited" Popo to chat well after knowing what they might find in his apt. My guess is that he was not cooperative, forcing their hand.
 
Geek Warning

BroDeal said:
So you think that for every page that you view your browser writes the HTML, CSS, and images to a file on your hard disk and it just sits there until the end of time, never to be overwritten by subsequent uses of the browser or other programs that need temporary space? Uh...okaaaaay. Yeah....I am sure that the browser also takes periodic snapshots of pages displaying an AJAX based web mail page and saves them too.

If your browser uses a cache of half a gig then every time you fire up the browser, it uses a different half gig of the hard disk for cache. Because of this you can take your total hard disk space, divide it by a half a gig, and calculate how many times you can execute your browser. After that the disk is all filled up and you need to throw the computer away because there is no more room. ;)

I had better check my Linux box. Every available bit on the hard disk must be filled with outdated pr0n pages by now.
Look, I rescue content off of disks at different times in the course of my employment and I've worked with every common file system there is at this point and have uncovered lots of detritus. Your reply is filled with misunderstandings about the topic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_deletion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_erasure

The issue of sensitive data being recovered from "reformatted" and "deleted" file systems is so common there is a NIST standard that explains in gruesome detail how to really delete data off a hard disk.

Typically, there are years worth of files on recent disk drives regardless of the operating system. (Linux, Windows, etc.) I read the bytes off the raw disk and recover files. If I can recover this stuff, then hopefully a determined law enforcement agency can recover even more.

Maybe some of you can understand the niche for applications that write random data to available disk space now?
 
May 25, 2010
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Even more pressure maybe???

Regarding the Italian police meeting with vacationing Feds.

Lets assume this.

1.Popo testified to the Grand jury, I saw nothing, did nothing etc.
2.Now the Italian search his place and find tons of info.
3.They now turn that info over to the Feds and that info is the exact opposite of what he testified.

What can the feds do to him?
 
tofino said:
Regarding the Italian police meeting with vacationing Feds.

Lets assume this.

1.Popo testified to the Grand jury, I saw nothing, did nothing etc.
2.Now the Italian search his place and find tons of info.
3.They now turn that info over to the Feds and that info is the exact opposite of what he testified.

What can the feds do to him?
Provide additional substantiating evidence (through Interpol) to bolster the Italian Police's case & facilitate a rock solid conviction. Seems like Popo must have ****ed off the Feds and they were showing their reach. Typical of the Teflon Train to think their unTouchable.
 

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