Radioshack in top team position

[Publicus]

rs came to TdF to win it...obviously they cant do that now,next goal is Levi top 10 and stage victory (which they have now)

they dont have sprinter for green,young rider for white or anyone for polka dot jersey

so team classification is the only other achievement they can get (forget lantern rouge,you dont go for it,its going after you)

i know that many of you have mentality of just giving up when things dont go your way (and laugh at others who try despite fail of their previous goals) but its nice to see them trying to get as much as they can with the riders they have

would you like them to just pack their bags and go home coz they cant win TdF?

It seems we share that mentality with a one Mr. Lance Armstrong.

In all seriousness, I would have my team attacking trying to get back time. If Lance was a strong and on form as he and others wanted to believe, he still would be competitive (look at Cuddles--he's not given up despite being absolutely shellacked on Stage 9). The Team has quit. They aren't putting much effort in defending Levi's position--because they are concerned that 3 guys finish in the fastest time each day.

It just exposes all of the multiple cards to play as basically talk. They had one card, one plan. He and it failed. And so now we have this sad display.

 

[hrotha]

Levi has a good shot at the podium. Shouldn't RadioShack focus on that, instead of wasting their energy chasing around Caisse guys all day?

 

[scribe]

Levi has a good shot at the podium. Shouldn't RadioShack focus on that, instead of wasting their energy chasing around Caisse guys all day?

One goal plays well into the other.

 

[Hugh Januss]

It would be a competition for the Lanterne Rouge of the forum.

It's coming for you.

 

[Publicus]

One goal plays well into the other.

It actually doesn't.

 

[Cyc81325]

i know that many of you have mentality of just giving up when things dont go your way

Oh, you mean like Lance?

BTW, I was a Lance supporter up until this past week. He has done nothing but quit every single day for this past week.

 

[hrotha]

One goal plays well into the other.

How? Just yesterday Horner wrote the whole team got cooked after chasing Caisse guys until Popo got in the breakaway. Lance, Jani, Popo, Paulinho, Rast, Muravyev, they all eliminated themselves in the first part of the stage, for all intents and purposes. Meanwhile, fireworks among the GC contenders were expected. Klödi was in the breakaway. Levi only had Horner, who had done lots of work during the first part of the stage himself. Should anything important have happened, RadioShack wouldn't have had any riders left to counter it.

So far I haven't seen RadioShack do anything that makes me think they're riding for a spot on the podium. See how Rabobank is riding? Compare that to RadioShack.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Oh, you mean like Lance?

BTW, I was a Lance supporter up until this past week. He has done nothing but quit every single day for this past week.

Maybe he is trying to get so far down timewise that when he does finally go for a stage win there will be zero response from anyone. Then he can spin that into everyone respecting him and wanting to see him 'go out a winner'.

 

[saganftw]

It seems we share that mentality with a one Mr. Lance Armstrong.

In all seriousness, I would have my team attacking trying to get back time. If Lance was a strong and on form as he and others wanted to believe, he still would be competitive (look at Cuddles--he's not given up despite being absolutely shellacked on Stage 9). The Team has quit. They aren't putting much effort in defending Levi's position--because they are concerned that 3 guys finish in the fastest time each day.

It just exposes all of the multiple cards to play as basically talk. They had one card, one plan. He and it failed. And so now we have this sad display.

you cant have your team attacking to take back time if they are not strong enough to do it, LA lost 11 minutes are you seriously thinking they can take that back? never in milion years...and since they are not strong enough to do it they have to refocus on other goals

so whats the next plan? maybe winning stage,LL in top 10,team classification

btw regarding defending levis position,you cant defend him if you cant stay with him because his the only one from the team capable of staying with top guys

im not saying RS did great job this TdF,they failed with the one and only goal they had before tour...but they didnt stop trying to get at least something from this TdF...and thats what i admire,and i admire same think with evans and other guys

 

[scribe]

How? Just yesterday Horner wrote the whole team got cooked after chasing Caisse guys until Popo got in the breakaway. Lance, Jani, Popo, Paulinho, Rast, Muravyev, they all eliminated themselves in the first part of the stage, for all intents and purposes. Meanwhile, fireworks among the GC contenders were expected. Klödi was in the breakaway. Levi only had Horner, who had done lots of work during the first part of the stage himself. Should anything important have happened, RadioShack wouldn't have had any riders left to counter it.

So far I haven't seen RadioShack do anything that makes me think they're riding for a spot on the podium. See how Rabobank is riding? Compare that to RadioShack.

RS are riding to protect both interests now. Believe it as LL is holding position and team GC is as well. Rabobank is riding differently because they are in a much better position to podium...if Menchov can survive in the Pyrenees. Which is not a small task for him, hence race tactics.

 

[benpounder]

he's trying to defend 6th overall... 6th for chrissake!!!

Yeah, you are right, what an embarrasment it must be for Levi to be sitting in sixth place overall in the Tour de France. I'll bet Gesink is even more embarrassed. Hell, Rodriguez, LL Sanchez, and Kreuziger must be contemplating suicide with their 8th, 9th, and 10th positions... And I'm sure Vinokourov, Hesjedal, Roche, Sastre, Wiggins, Rogers, Evans, Lovkvist, Kloden, Le Mevel, and Casar wouldnt even consider changing places with Levi.

 

[scribe]

Maybe he is trying to get so far down timewise that when he does finally go for a stage win there will be zero response from anyone. Then he can spin that into everyone respecting him and wanting to see him 'go out a winner'.

I don't think he will go for a stage victory. I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[saganftw]

Oh, you mean like Lance?

BTW, I was a Lance supporter up until this past week. He has done nothing but quit every single day for this past week.

ok lets make it clear for you

LA wanted to win TdF...failed
he cant support LL much coz he will be droped from the group with top guys
he said he wants to win the stage - to achieve that he needs astana and saxo bank guys to see him as no threat (remember oscar pereiro?) - to be no threat he just have to loose time so he can be in breakway because hes not strong enough to win it from peloton or top guys group at mountain top

i dont have to be armstrong supporter to understand this "rocket science"...btw there are many riders with exactly same tactic,loose time,get in the breakway,win the stage...for former 7 times champion its less that many expected but its the most he can do now

 

[hrotha]

RS are riding to protect both interests now. Believe it as LL is holding position and team GC is as well. Rabobank is riding differently because they are in a much better position to podium...if Menchov can survive in the Pyrenees. Which is not a small task for him, hence race tactics.

I don't think "Levi not popping" counts as race tactics but whatever.

Yeah, you are right, what an embarrasment it must be for Levi to be sitting in sixth place overall in the Tour de France. I'll bet Gesink is even more embarrassed. Hell, Rodriguez, LL Sanchez, and Kreuziger must be contemplating suicide with their 8th, 9th, and 10th positions... And I'm sure Vinokourov, Hesjedal, Roche, Sastre, Wiggins, Rogers, Evans, Lovkvist, Kloden, Le Mevel, and Casar wouldnt even consider changing places with Levi.

There's a world of a difference between a top 10 standing for a guy who's already been on the podium once and in the top 10 several other times and whose team's main goal of the season was winning the TdF, and all those other guys you're mentioning. Regardless, most of them are aiming to get as good a GC placing as they can get. They're not talking about defending their standings yet, they're talking about moving up, winning a stage, anything really, not just about being there.

 

[Publicus]

you cant have your team attacking to take back time if they are not strong enough to do it, LA lost 11 minutes are you seriously thinking they can take that back? never in milion years...and since they are not strong enough to do it they have to refocus on other goals

so whats the next plan? maybe winning stage,LL in top 10,team classification

btw regarding defending levis position,you cant defend him if you cant stay with him because his the only one from the team capable of staying with top guys

im not saying RS did great job this TdF,they failed with the one and only goal they had before tour...but they didnt stop trying to get at least something from this TdF...and thats what i admire,and i admire same think with evans and other guys

I was actually thinking about Levi. If he wants to make podium, which would be a considerably more important achievement than team GC, then Radio Shack should be riding to put him to position to do that. So far they seem to be hoping he can manage it himself while they save at least two guys to finish as highly as possible each stage.

 

[hrotha]

i dont have to be armstrong supporter to understand this "rocket science"...btw there are many riders with exactly same tactic,loose time,get in the breakway,win the stage...for former 7 times champion its less that many expected but its the most he can do now

Those riders target the stages that suit their characteristics the most to try to win them, they don't take a day off when their chances of making it are greater.

 

[Benotti69]

Can't see too many DS's letting LA get a stage. He didn't do too many favours for any when he was winning 7 TdFs

 

[scribe]

I was actually thinking about Levi. If he wants to make podium, which would be a considerably more important achievement than team GC, then Radio Shack should be riding to put him to position to do that. So far they seem to be hoping he can manage it himself while they save at least two guys to finish as highly as possible each stage.

I like their chances at both, but a LL podium will require Menchov cracking and that pressure will be applied by a variety of teams in the Pyrenees...not just RS.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Levi has a good shot at the podium. Shouldn't RadioShack focus on that, instead of wasting their energy chasing around Caisse guys all day?

True. The podium is still a possibility. In order to keep it viable, he must not lose any more time to either Menchov or Sanchez.
If can do that, he must then ride an ITT at the very top of his form, assuming the other two ride to their trialing potential.
Even then, taking over a minute out of Menchov is a tall order.
In reality, he needs to hold his form and hope that several riders fall by the wayside.

As for Armstrong: he appears to be riding much the same Tour as Simoni's 2009 Giro. Once his strength began to ebb, his aging body could no longer make the daily recovery.

 

[scribe]

Can't see too many DS's letting LA get a stage. He didn't do too many favours for any when he was winning 7 TdFs

All of their lifestyles improved with the increased attention and dollars in cycling, during the Armstrong years. Don't really see any real reason why teams would try to close him down, and actually don't see a reason why Armstrong would want to grab a stage victory. Has he even talked about it recently? Maybe the ITT.

 

[saganftw]

I was actually thinking about Levi. If he wants to make podium, which would be a considerably more important achievement than team GC, then Radio Shack should be riding to put him to position to do that. So far they seem to be hoping he can manage it himself while they save at least two guys to finish as highly as possible each stage.

what would you do to put LL in podium place? ride on the front with LA,horner,brajkovic,kloden hoping that menchov,basso,VDB,samuel sanchez just drop?or send them out in a breakway or do the landis attack?

i d like to see some plan,not just "ride him into position",thats vague because you know LL wont drop menchov or samuel...he s not strong enough and he cant wait for TT to gain much time on them...i just dont see LL finishing on podium,and he knows that too the best he can hope for is top 5 imo

and i agree with you he wwill have to do it on his own,not so much because they are saving guys for team GC but because of simple fact nobody is strong enough to keep up himself with top guys

 

[Benotti69]

All of their lifestyles improved with the increased attention and dollars in cycling, during the Armstrong years. Don't really see any real reason why teams would try to close him down, and actually don't see a reason why Armstrong would want to grab a stage victory. Has he even talked about it recently? Maybe the ITT.

I am not too sure that lifestyles improved dramatically. The cost of a team did and what was needed to compete at the highest level, but whether that translated into a lot of richer DS and riders?????

I think a lot of people inside the sport were not impressed the way he handled Astana and tried to back stab Contador in full daylight of everybody while putting down the guy last year and that is a recent memory. I imagine Astana would not let him ride up the road or any Spanish team, Caisse, Euskeltel...but yeah i dont think he is thinking of one. Don't think he has it in him either.

Quite possible that all the unwanted attention from Gendarmes is meaning that they have not got their juice.

 

[scribe]

I am not too sure that lifestyles improved dramatically. The cost of a team did and what was needed to compete at the highest level, but whether that translated into a lot of richer DS and riders?????

I think a lot of people inside the sport were not impressed the way he handled Astana and tried to back stab Contador in full daylight of everybody while putting down the guy last year and that is a recent memory. I imagine Astana would not let him ride up the road or any Spanish team, Caisse, Euskeltel...but yeah i dont think he is thinking of one. Don't think he has it in him either.

Quite possible that all the unwanted attention from Gendarmes is meaning that they have not got their juice.

Armstrong's personality does not endear himself well with everyone. I will agree with that.

 

[flicker]

I was actually thinking about Levi. If he wants to make podium, which would be a considerably more important achievement than team GC, then Radio Shack should be riding to put him to position to do that. So far they seem to be hoping he can manage it himself while they save at least two guys to finish as highly as possible each stage.

I think Shack is doing the best they can for Levi, I think that they are overpowered. I could see Armstrong was angry at the finish Friday. He knows the story.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The problem with Levi riding to defend 6th is not that 6th isn't a good performance, but that when you're in 6th overall, why are you not trying to break into the top 5? Why is the priority to not go backwards, rather than to go forwards? Here we have, in a nutshell, the problem with Levi and with Johan's tactics in general. They are inherently negative. The question is not "how can I improve" but "how can I not get worse". This results in defensive, wheelsucking riding and smacks of the team giving up on the podium.

That they're chasing Caisse riders to defend their position in the teams classification is sad in and of itself too; Caisse haven't at any point looked like they've been after the teams classification so much as wanting to win stages. They were putting people in breaks in the flat stages of week 1. The only one that wasn't stagehunting was stage 9, and Caisse in stage 9 was a masterpiece of tactical riding, managing to interject themselves into the GC despite not having a GC contender. Sánchez was trying to move up today too. He's not an élite climber and will lose time there, so he's looking to gain elsewhere. This seems to be entirely alien to the Levi method. Caisse are looking for a sponsor, so being highly visible in the Tour and getting a stage win is absolutely essential for them; the Radioshack boys chasing them down so as to defend the teams classification lead could also be a threat to that team's very existence.