Lidl-Trek (no longer Radioshack-Leopard Trek)

[Beech Mtn]

Is there any site that keeps track of contract status? I'd like to know which guys on Radioshack have contracts that last through 2012 (or new guys they have recently signed for 2012).

My impression is that guys like McEwen and Hunter were only 1-year contracts since they were picked up after Pegasus failed at the last minute. I would guess Beppu was probably ending a 2-year contract that ran 2010-2011.

So who are the 13 (or however many) guys that are supposedly contracted through 2012? Can we try to make a list of confirmed riders and leave out the rumors?

Even if the Shack doesn't merge with Leotard, it looks odd that they haven't been renewing existing riders or bringing in a lot of new talent. Given that the sponsors' renewal was announced a while back, it doesn't look like they were doing much setting up the team for next year, unless things were all happening outside the public eye, with an announcement to come at a later date.

So, Shack merges with Leotard,
Or was Shack moving down to ProConti where you don't need as many riders?

 

[Race Radio]

So who are the 13 (or however many) guys that are supposedly contracted through 2012? Can we try to make a list of confirmed riders and leave out the rumors?

Even if the Shack doesn't merge with Leotard, it looks odd that they haven't been renewing existing riders or bringing in a lot of new talent. Given that the sponsors' renewal was announced a while back, it doesn't look like they were doing much setting up the team for next year, unless things were all happening outside the public eye, with an announcement to come at a later date.

So, Shack merges with Leotard,
Or was Shack moving down to ProConti where you don't need as many riders?

This is a good indicator of what direction Johan thinks the team will be taking. It is very unusual for a team this late in the season have only about a dozen riders signed for next year.

 

[Maxiton]

While it is nice to pretend otherwise the reality is it is impossible to discuss this topic and ignore the fact that [1]Bruyneel has a toxic history with many riders. sponsors and partners. This history is not limited to clinic related topics but also[2] multiple unpaid bonuses, lies, and manipulation.

[3]Brunyeel is facing the possibility serious legal trouble in multiple jurisdictions. [4]He has been at war with the UCI for most of the year. Given Becca's limited knowledge of the sport he may not be aware this but [5]certainly there are riders, staff, and sponsors who are looking at the prospect of suddenly be tossed in with Johan with concern

Yes, you've made these points before. Over and over and over again, in this thread and elsewhere. However, not a single one of the above statements is anything other than an ad hominem assertion. You offer not a single reference.

While some or all of your statements may have some degree of validity, they are not made more valid by repetition. It's clear you have an axe to grind with Bruyneel, and you're grinding it. We get that. You don't like him. I'm not exactly a fan, either, as it happens, but I am a fan of fairness and reason, and I'm not seeing either of those qualities in your assertions. I don't know who you are or what Bruyneel has done to you but perhaps your cause would be better served by taking a bit more care.

 

[max_powers]

So a best possible GT lineup would be something like:

The Schlecks
Braijkovic
Fulgsang
Monfort
Cancerella
Machado
Kloden
Voigt

Levi and Chris to target smaller, shorter races. The first 5 riders listed could all be GC contenders, so the team could be strong at all 3 GT's.

Horner on TV during the Vuelta today states he will be back and competitive at the 2012 Tour, at 40 years old.

They also showed video of a disoriented Horner at the 2011 Tour after a blow to the head.

I'd like to see the 40 yo Levi and Chris on a "Farewell Tour" pacing the remainder of the 4 or 5 GC men of the team!

 

[Race Radio]

Yes, you've made these points before. Over and over and over again, in this thread and elsewhere. However, not a single one of the above statements is anything other than an ad hominem assertion. You offer not a single reference.

While some or all of your statements may have some degree of validity, they are not made more valid by repetition. It's clear you have an axe to grind with Bruyneel, and you're grinding it. We get that. You don't like him. I'm not exactly a fan, either, as it happens, but I am a fan of fairness and reason, and I'm not seeing either of those qualities in your assertions. I don't know who you are or what Bruyneel has done to you but perhaps your cause would be better served by taking a bit more care.

You may want to look up the definition of "Ad hominem" Nothing I have written is ad hominem but your attempt to pretend that what have written about Johan is based on my dislike for him rather then what is widely known and reported is

Paolo Savoldelli

“As soon as he joined Astana, I decided to leave. He still owes me my share of the prize money from the 2005 Tour we won with Discovery. Also, he was just never honest with me,”

Benoit Joachim

"Johan Bruyneel's great gift is that he's a liar".

Eric Boyer

"What I understand least is how anyone can still believe the words of Johan Bruyneel?"

The UCI?

Bruyneel suspended for two months
Bruyneel criticises the UCI and talks about a possible breakaway league
"The UCI consider the behaviour of some individuals, notably M. Bruyneel and M. Vaughters, totally unacceptable,"

Investigations? ToC and Colorado are key US races for a US team and sponsor like Radioshack yet Brunyeel was a no-show for all of them and has not been in the US for over a year.

As a target of an investigation it is not surprising that he does not come to the US
Defendants including Armstrong, team manager Johan Bruyneel, longtime agent Bill Stapleton, financier Thomas W. Weisel and numerous owner-investors in the various companies that operated the team were notified of their status last week

The French are working with the investigation and are waiting for the US Fed to file their charges before they file charges for the "Criminal" transfusion kits Johan is well aware of the investigation because Johan Bruyneel and Alain Gallopin were questioned by officers last May and April

With the ongoing Ferrari investigation in Italy it is no surprise that Police searched RadioShack hotel at Giro and that Johan fled the scene, leaving his luggage at the hotel

Many of Johan's previous business partners have not been happy with him. WSJ had a good story (For Cycling's Big Backers, Joy Ride Ends in Grief) of how multiple investors saw no return from the largest team in the world. Sounds like a ponzi scheme eh?

Do you think the Astana backers are happy how Brunyeel managed the team? Paying some riders and staff and not paying others? Lying about them to the press?

Here is Savodelli's take on Johan joining Astana. There are likely a few on Leopard that feel the same way SAVOLDELLI: I LEFT ASTANA BECAUSE OF BRUYNEEL

I could go on and on but you get the picture. Given Johan's well reported issues with rider, sponsors, the UCI and staff it is not unrealistic think that many would not embrace this merger.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

And if there is a merge with Leopard then they have to break riders contracts - that is pretty big problem.

no it's not as long as they keep paying them I think, same happened with cervelo and bianchi?

 

[Swede1]

I wouldn't mind seeing this merge be true. Maybe Schleck would learn what it takes to win a GT, and improve his TT'ing. Also, maybe Bruyneel would convince Frank to go after the Giro + Vuelta while Andy targets the Classics and the Tour.


I wonder how Hermans and Rast feel about this. Didnt they both move to Leopard?? Now back at Radioshack!

 

[Dr. Maserati]

no it's not as long as they keep paying them I think, same happened with cervelo and bianchi?

It is a problem because most teams have already their rosters filled.

Now there could be a lot of riders without contracts next year or forced to go to Pro Conti teams.
This limits their earning potential (prize money, appearance fee's) and keeps them out of the shop window of riding in a big team.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

as long as leopard/radioshack keep paying the riders salary or givingem them extra money because they are fired I don't see what the problem is.

 

[Cobblestoned]

And if there is a merge with Leopard then they have to break riders contracts - that is pretty big problem.

Doktor, please think for a moment.
Possible merger and all those poor poor Team RS employes, you care so much about right now, aside. Even when it is heartbreaking how the crew now suddenly cares about them and wants their best. Same goes for everything regarding poor Leopard etc, who were called names by the same people for around 1 year now.
You guys spread your protective hand over them. No surprise actually.
You always did that with much care. Ok, ok.

What do you think why we humans waste our time making contracts and laws ?

If someone wants to break your contract, you can show your contract.
Contracts are not just made for when the sun is shining, or to just have a contract.
Contracts are quiet nice.
The holiday, was fun packed, the contract, still intact.

 

[Polish]

Paolo Savoldelli...

Benoit Joachim...

Eric Boyer...

The UCI?...

Astana backers ...

I could go on and on but you get the picture. Given Johan's well reported issues with rider, sponsors, the UCI and staff it is not unrealistic think that many would not embrace this merger.

When you are the Big Boss, it is hard to please everybody.
Hard to keep everybody in the Big Picture loop.
Bound to step on toes. But that is life in the Bigs.
Being the Boss is not a popularity contest. Cliches run rampant.

Sure, some people think Bruyneel is a crappy boss.
Others have done quite well working for Johann.
Same is true for Steve Jobs or Harold Geneen.

Anyway, it is important for a Boss to learn from their mistakes.

I find it interesting that Johan has only signed up a dozen or so riders so far.
And some of the riders he did not sign up have announced nice contracts with other teams already.

It seems Johann has been planning this merger for a while?
Giving the heads up to certain riders to find other contracts.
And minimizing the contracts, if any, that will not carry over to the merged team.

Again, it is lonely at the top. Tough being the Big Dog.
But it sure looks like the merger is tinged with genius and caring.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

as long as leopard/radioshack keep paying the riders salary or givingem them extra money because they are fired I don't see what the problem is.

What extra money?

The team (RS or LT) only pay the shortfall - ie if a rider has a $100k contract and a new team signs them for $90k RS/LT pay the $10k.
But the rider will lose out their position in a World Tour team and are looking for a job in a limited market.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

What extra money?

The team (RS or LT) only pay the shortfall - ie if a rider has a $100k contract and a new team signs them for $90k RS/LT pay the $10k.
But the rider will lose out their position in a World Tour team and are looking for a job in a limited market.

becca has more than enough money

and fors ure they will pay extra money if rider goes to court because he lost his advances job position (pro tour)

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Doktor, please think for a moment.
Possible merger and all those poor poor Team RS employes, you care so much about right now, aside. Even when it is heartbreaking how the crew now suddenly cares about them and wants their best. Same goes for everything regarding poor Leopard etc, who were called names by the same people for around 1 year now.
You guys spread your protective hand over them. No surprise actually.
You always did that with much care. Ok, ok.

What do you think why we humans waste our time making contracts and laws ?

If someone wants to break your contract, you can show your contract.
Contracts are not just made for when the sun is shining, or to just have a contract.
Contracts are quiet nice.
The holiday, was fun packed, the contract, still intact.

Dear Cobblestones, please think for a moment (actually, take longer).

I have never mentioned anything bad about RadioShack or Leopard (except I think they are bland).

Although with Bruyneel one might say "the grabbing hands, grab all they can. All for themselves."

 

[Dr. Maserati]

becca has more than enough money

and fors ure they will pay extra money if rider goes to court because he lost his advances job position (pro tour)

Yet Becca appears to have run out of patience waiting on a sponsor - he is a businessman, not a charity case.

"If rider goes to court" - thats a big if for a rider on a ProTour salary to go up against Becca who has "more than enough money".

 

[thehog]

You forgot Cedric Vassuer and Emma Reilly.

Both didn't get paid and one the female one had malicious rumours spread about her that ended her career in cycling support roles.

You may want to look up the definition of "Ad hominem" Nothing I have written is ad hominem but your attempt to pretend that what have written about Johan is based on my dislike for him rather then what is widely known and reported is

Paolo Savoldelli

Benoit Joachim

Eric Boyer


The UCI?

Bruyneel suspended for two months
Bruyneel criticises the UCI and talks about a possible breakaway league
"The UCI consider the behaviour of some individuals, notably M. Bruyneel and M. Vaughters, totally unacceptable,"

Investigations? ToC and Colorado are key US races for a US team and sponsor like Radioshack yet Brunyeel was a no-show for all of them and has not been in the US for over a year.

As a target of an investigation it is not surprising that he does not come to the US
Defendants including Armstrong, team manager Johan Bruyneel, longtime agent Bill Stapleton, financier Thomas W. Weisel and numerous owner-investors in the various companies that operated the team were notified of their status last week

The French are working with the investigation and are waiting for the US Fed to file their charges before they file charges for the "Criminal" transfusion kits Johan is well aware of the investigation because Johan Bruyneel and Alain Gallopin were questioned by officers last May and April

With the ongoing Ferrari investigation in Italy it is no surprise that Police searched RadioShack hotel at Giro and that Johan fled the scene, leaving his luggage at the hotel

Many of Johan's previous business partners have not been happy with him. WSJ had a good story (For Cycling's Big Backers, Joy Ride Ends in Grief) of how multiple investors saw no return from the largest team in the world. Sounds like a ponzi scheme eh?

Do you think the Astana backers are happy how Brunyeel managed the team? Paying some riders and staff and not paying others? Lying about them to the press?

Here is Savodelli's take on Johan joining Astana. There are likely a few on Leopard that feel the same way SAVOLDELLI: I LEFT ASTANA BECAUSE OF BRUYNEEL

I could go on and on but you get the picture. Given Johan's well reported issues with rider, sponsors, the UCI and staff it is not unrealistic think that many would not embrace this merger.

 

[hfer07]

I wouldn't mind seeing this merge be true. Maybe Schleck would learn what it takes to win a GT, and improve his TT'ing. Also, maybe Bruyneel would convince Frank to go after the Giro + Vuelta while Andy targets the Classics and the Tour.

Bruyneel do not give a fvck about anything else but the Tour de France alone-apart from it, all the races are mere "contractual obligations"-his record is proof of that
-mark my words: Andy will only be seen twice a year when he gets into the Hog's "program" & Frank will be downgraded to be his "super domestique" ....

I wonder how Hermans and Rast feel about this. Didnt they both move to Leopard?? Now back at Radioshack!

all depends on the "terms" they left RS & the hog....

 

[pmcg76]

Is there any site that keeps track of contract status? I'd like to know which guys on Radioshack have contracts that last through 2012 (or new guys they have recently signed for 2012).

My impression is that guys like McEwen and Hunter were only 1-year contracts since they were picked up after Pegasus failed at the last minute. I would guess Beppu was probably ending a 2-year contract that ran 2010-2011.

So who are the 13 (or however many) guys that are supposedly contracted through 2012? Can we try to make a list of confirmed riders and leave out the rumors?

Even if the Shack doesn't merge with Leotard, it looks odd that they haven't been renewing existing riders or bringing in a lot of new talent. Given that the sponsors' renewal was announced a while back, it doesn't look like they were doing much setting up the team for next year, unless things were all happening outside the public eye, with an announcement to come at a later date.

So, Shack merges with Leotard,
Or was Shack moving down to ProConti where you don't need as many riders?

That is a tough one, obviously the Shack have signed Meersman and Gallopin so that must be two plus I think Horner, Kloeden and Brajkovic extnded their contracts. The guys who turned pro at the start of 2011 have to have signed for two years as required for neo-pros, they were Ben King & Jesse Sergeant. That is 7 seemingly definite.

Hunter, McEwen and Deignan all had one year contracts, Rovny and McCartney extended their contacts at the start of this season but dont know if that was for just this season or longer.

I would think most of the original RadioShack team signed for 2 seasons as that is when the sponsor contract expired thus meaning a lot of guys are finishing their contracts this season.

Hermans and Rast have of course moved to Leopard already whilst Roessler, Murayev, McEwen & Kwiatowski have signed for other teams. Beppu is rumoured to be heading to GE and Leipheimer to QSOP.

Still means that a lot of guys from both teams will be looking for new contracts unfortunately. At least the QS-OP merger guys had the fall back of the Lotto-Ridley team.

 

[pmcg76]

Bruyneel do not give a fvck about anything else but the Tour de France alone-apart from it, all the races are mere "contractual obligations"-his record is proof of that
-mark my words: Andy will only be seen twice a year when he gets into the Hog's "program" & Frank will be downgraded to be his "super domestique" ....


all depends on the "terms" they left RS & the hog....

Hermans didnt seem too happy with Radioshack bemoaning the fact that he didnt get to do a GT this year. I think he was happy to leave or else this was a covert way of sneaking Shack guys into Leopard on the QT.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

You forgot Cedric Vassuer and Emma Reilly.

Both didn't get paid and one the female one had malicious rumours spread about her that ended her career in cycling support roles.

Do not forget Frankie Andreu. He was cheated out of his prize money by Bruyneel and Lance.

 

[thehog]

Do not forget Frankie Andreu. He was cheated out of his prize money by Bruyneel and Lance.

Correct. I also think Kevin Livingston lost out on a bonus also... but was paid off years later with the basement bike job.....

 

[thehog]

Bruyneel do not give a fvck about anything else but the Tour de France alone-apart from it, all the races are mere "contractual obligations"-his record is proof of that
-mark my words: Andy will only be seen twice a year when he gets into the Hog's "program" & Frank will be downgraded to be his "super domestique" ....


all depends on the "terms" they left RS & the hog....

Just ask Steegmans about his year..... riding solo in cold and wet races with zero team support isn't a lot of fun...

 

[Race Radio]

You forgot Cedric Vassuer and Emma Reilly.

Both didn't get paid and one the female one had malicious rumours spread about her that ended her career in cycling support roles.

The list is endless. I doubt Vladimir Gusev will be riding for them either

http://nyvelocity.com/node/4618

 

[Christian]

What amazes me is that a team with both Schlecks, Cancellara, O'Grady, etc. failed to get a sponsor.

HTC I can understand, as the fear was that Cavendish would go elsewhere anyway. But Leopard is surprising.

I think LEOPARD TREK runs on a budget that almost no company is willing to invest into cycling, except the Empire (Sky), or it's your own company (Rihs), or a conglommerate (Katusha, Astana), or a billionaire (Quick Step, LEOPARD TREK). So in itself I don't find it unusual that they didn't find one, after all, many teams don't have a traditional main sponsor anymore.

Some people here have said Becca wants the merger for business reasons (i.e. to get his money back), but most articles suggest he was unhappy at the lack of success this season. I guess the business perspective I could accept but if it's really impatience at the lack of results I think he is clearly making the wrong decision. He should (have) give(n) the team more time to grow and develop, and not already give up on it after one season!

 

[Race Radio]

I think LEOPARD TREK runs on a budget that almost no company is willing to invest into cycling, except the Empire (Sky), or it's your own company (Rihs), or a conglommerate (Katusha, Astana), or a billionaire (Quick Step, LEOPARD TREK). So in itself I don't find it unusual that they didn't find one, after all, many teams don't have a traditional main sponsor anymore.

Some people here have said Becca wants the merger for business reasons (i.e. to get his money back), but most articles suggest he was unhappy at the lack of success this season. I guess the business perspective I could accept but if it's really impatience at the lack of results I think he is clearly making the wrong decision. He should (have) give(n) the team more time to grow and develop, and not already give up on it after one season!

In his talk with La Gazzetta the lack of a sponsor is a key reason for Becca's displeasure. the need to combine the teams and sponsers points more to financial concerns then sporting ones.