Radioshack vs Sky

[cromagnon]

Sky have not got a rider approaching the quality of Kloden let alone the quality of Leipheimer and whatever one says about Lance he keeps delivering one way or another. Sky will not compete with RS more likely it will be an ally. A vassal team so to speak, the same way the UK is a vassal state of the US not an indenpendent nation (independent nations tend to get bombed and taken over in the name of freedom but I digress).

 

[Moondance]

Sky have not got a rider approaching the quality of Kloden let alone the quality of Leipheimer and whatever one says about Lance he keeps delivering one way or another. Sky will not compete with RS more likely it will be an ally. A vassal team so to speak, the same way the UK is a vassal state of the US not an indenpendent nation (independent nations tend to get bombed and taken over in the name of freedom but I digress).

Well, they do have someone who exceeds their quality in Edvald Boasson Hagen.

Sky obviously has a pretty strong classics team lined up already, and RadioShack has good infrastructure for the GTs and shorter stage races. That said I'd probably still say Sky, because RadioShack is currently looking like a 2 year project. Give Lance 2 more cracks at Le Tour and then have everyone call it quits, since I doubt RadioShack will stay a sponsor if Lance is not attached to the team as a rider anymore. That's the reason they're assembling the remains of US Postal and Astana rather than try and forge some new team like Sky. Sky has backing for 5 years and potentially more if the results are good. It means they have the freedom to try and forge an actual new strong team, and i'll fancy them to be a major force in, say, two years.

 

[cromagnon]

Well, they do have someone who exceeds their quality in Edvald Boasson Hagen.

I disagree. The hype around that guy is outrageous. When EBH podiums at a GT as the others I've mentioned we can revisit.

 

[franciep10]

I disagree. The hype around that guy is outrageous. When EBH podiums at a GT as the others I've mentioned we can revisit.

Just so you know there is more to cycling than grand tours, there's classics which he's won already and I expect him to win many more, and other one day races and he could win some week long stage races. I think he could be the next stephen roche and hardly anybody on this forum would disagree. So I think the hype around him is justified, I mean he's not some aging legend from the dinosaur era that won't crack top 5 next year.

 

[jpmcmahonjr]

Comical and enjoyable......

The persistant obsession with Lance Armstrong on this forum is truely remarkable and hilarious. I guess you know you still have it when the haters can't talk about anything other than you. The dinasour, the cheater, the crybaby. LOL......I feel for ya haters. I truely do feel for ya. I hope you have something else in your futures to focus on.

Pure comedy.

 

[Anonymous]

ok.. how about a nice simple...

who will win more races next year, sky or radioshack...

standard wins - 1pt
classic wins - 3pts
grand tour stages - 2pts
grand tour 3rd - 2pts
grand tour 2nd - 4pts
grand tour wins - 6 pts

I will go with sky to beat radioshack by 10pts...!

14pts v 4 btw..

 

[peloton]

I disagree. The hype around that guy is outrageous. When EBH podiums at a GT as the others I've mentioned we can revisit.

He is 22, sky (literally) is the limit for this kid.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

I disagree. The hype around that guy is outrageous. When EBH podiums at a GT as the others I've mentioned we can revisit.

I doubt he will ever podium at a GT, it would be a waste of his abilities.
He isn't a natural climber. I can see him maybe doing well in hills in the future, but from what I've seen in his climbing he wont ever contest a win at a GT.

He will clean up in classics and week long stage races though.

 

[ingsve]

Sky have not got a rider approaching the quality of Kloden let alone the quality of Leipheimer and whatever one says about Lance he keeps delivering one way or another. Sky will not compete with RS more likely it will be an ally. A vassal team so to speak, the same way the UK is a vassal state of the US not an indenpendent nation (independent nations tend to get bombed and taken over in the name of freedom but I digress).

The important thing is not to compare palmares but to guess which will be better in 2010. I do think that some riders in Team Sky of 2010 might be at least close to the caliber of Klöden and Leipheimer of 2010.

The advantage Sky has is that they have young talents getting one year older but Radioshack has old has-beens getting one year older.

 

[luckyboy]

ok.. how about a nice simple...

who will win more races next year, sky or radioshack...

standard wins - 1pt
classic wins - 3pts
grand tour stages - 2pts
grand tour 3rd - 2pts
grand tour 2nd - 4pts
grand tour wins - 6 pts

I will go with sky to beat radioshack by 10pts...!

14pts v 4 btw..

Radioshack are going to have 4 standard wins then?

 

[Glockers]

I'm not saying the Shack will be great, but this forum actually seems to be a Sky team fanboy club. I am not that impressed by their line-up at all.

I do think EBH is good and I think people are failing to consider the stage wins and one day potential of Gerrans, but Lokvist will not podium a grand tour. He is top 10 at best and I fail to see much quality of depth in the team. Arveson is an ok workhorse, but the British guys in the team are deadset woeful riders. I just don't see them as having a great team.

Who is going to support EBH or Gerrans to get them stage wins? Who are the lead out men? Who are the workhorses? Mind you what are their other options besides Gerrans and EBH? I fail to see them. Compare the depth to Columbia, QuickStep, Liqigas, Garmin, Ce4rvelo and even Katusha. They don't compare.

I think their team line-up is very average and it is just the English posters and EBH fans who are fanboying this team.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Sky have not got a rider approaching the quality of Kloden let alone the quality of Leipheimer[/B].

I disagree. The hype around that guy is outrageous. When EBH podiums at a GT as the others I've mentioned we can revisit.

Snap.

You are only interested in the GTs, while other's place huge value upon the big one day races. Your criteria.

Using your criteria, Leiheimer did nothing at all this season.
Kloden's GT record, which, lets face, it, you mean the Tour, is far better than Leipheimer's.
1 hand me down 3rd place and a couple of Vuelta second/thirds.
Wow....you called it, HYPE.

EBH is 22. While he may not be able to climb like a little man, but in all other respects, his talents are far superior.
His palmares will probably end up running for pages, where as Levi's struggles to make a couple of paragraphs.

Still, in GT terms, yes, you are correct.
EBH will probably end up with a couple of dozen stages and Levi with his 3 bottom rungs and an ITT win.

 

[stefrees]

I'm not saying the Shack will be great, but this forum actually seems to be a Sky team fanboy club. I am not that impressed by their line-up at all.

I do think EBH is good and I think people are failing to consider the stage wins and one day potential of Gerrans, but Lokvist will not podium a grand tour. He is top 10 at best and I fail to see much quality of depth in the team. Arveson is an ok workhorse, but the British guys in the team are deadset woeful riders. I just don't see them as having a great team.

Who is going to support EBH or Gerrans to get them stage wins? Who are the lead out men? Who are the workhorses? Mind you what are their other options besides Gerrans and EBH? I fail to see them. Compare the depth to Columbia, QuickStep, Liqigas, Garmin, Ce4rvelo and even Katusha. They don't compare.

I think their team line-up is very average and it is just the English posters and EBH fans who are fanboying this team.

The British riders are "deadset woeful riders"?

Peter Kennaugh is one of the most exciting neo pros next year, geraint thomas is still young and is showing signs of some very good promise, him and stannard will be valuable domestiques in the classics and the grand tours as well. downing will win the odd stage in small races, and froome is a promising young climber.

The rest of the squad have enough depth to compete throughout the year a la columbia, but with not the quantity of wins. i certainly think they are a stronger team than cervelo.

 

[Hammerhed]

Radio Shack will probably get big results quicker, but ultimately Team Sky will prevail. If/when Wiggins and Cav make it over, watch out, as they will be a force!

 

[Galic Ho]

I'm not saying the Shack will be great, but this forum actually seems to be a Sky team fanboy club. I am not that impressed by their line-up at all.

Who is going to support EBH or Gerrans to get them stage wins? Who are the lead out men? Who are the workhorses? Mind you what are their other options besides Gerrans and EBH? I fail to see them. Compare the depth to Columbia, QuickStep, Liqigas, Garmin, Ce4rvelo and even Katusha. They don't compare.

I think their team line-up is very average and it is just the English posters and EBH fans who are fanboying this team.

I agree. The Shack and Sky will struggle to win anything. Take the Shack, mostly Astana's A-Team, who collectively struggled to win anything. Yeah Levi won in California and the algarve and a few ITTs, Brajkovic is quality for the stage wins and classics, but the team is sadly geared towards pulling the old man on the roster around France. Astana achieved more victories overall and stages via Contador than the rest combined. Good move Lance and Bruyneel.

As for Sky, yeah they might win a stage or two in the grand tours with EBH and Gerrans but thats it. Despite this (no shame there as the chances to win are few and far between) they will actually have a crack at the classics and week long races. They won't be up there with with Columbia, Saxo, Caisse, Rabo, Liquigas and Katusha in volume of wins, though this won't matter, they will easily double the Shacks number of victories. Sadly the muppets at Radioshack are bank rolling the vanity of one man in the pursuit of one race. Then they'll depart the sport, like Postal and Disco. Everything else will be a minor inconvenience, except California, which will be used to help convince Levi to put his aspirations aside and pull Lance around the Alps and Pyrenees in July.

Sky are the better team, but the Shack will get the media's attention, particularly in America, even over other US teams like Garmin and Columbia. Personally I think it stinks, but the inevitability of the situation is glaringly obvious.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Astana achieved more victories overall and stages via Contador than the rest combined.

Contador had 11 of Astana's 20 wins this season.

Susan

 

[Galic Ho]

Contador had 11 of Astana's 20 wins this season.

Thanks for that. Couldn't remember the number. This is more evidence demonstrating that if LA and Bruyneel and RadioShack were interested in improving cycling, rather than getting Lance a Tour win, they'd take the sure bet of Contador instead of alienating the man. Also my bit about the Alrgarve with Levi...thats wrong it was the Castilla y'Leon. But it is a numbers game and value for money.

Does a possible podium at le Tour and ToC by Lance or Levi equate to stage wins in classics, grand tours and week long events? Maybe to non cycling fans in america who jump on the band wagon, here on this forum amongst the cycling fanatics, I think most would agree that wins are what counts, not some boring slugfest to podium third at the tour and sacrifice everyone on the team to accomplish that. For that reason I look forward to what Sky achieve because the nature of the team suggests they will have a serious crack and achieve some quality wins.

 

[ingsve]

I'm not saying the Shack will be great, but this forum actually seems to be a Sky team fanboy club. I am not that impressed by their line-up at all.

I do think EBH is good and I think people are failing to consider the stage wins and one day potential of Gerrans, but Lokvist will not podium a grand tour. He is top 10 at best and I fail to see much quality of depth in the team. Arveson is an ok workhorse, but the British guys in the team are deadset woeful riders. I just don't see them as having a great team.

Who is going to support EBH or Gerrans to get them stage wins? Who are the lead out men? Who are the workhorses? Mind you what are their other options besides Gerrans and EBH? I fail to see them. Compare the depth to Columbia, QuickStep, Liqigas, Garmin, Ce4rvelo and even Katusha. They don't compare.

I think their team line-up is very average and it is just the English posters and EBH fans who are fanboying this team.

The excitement about Sky is because they are new and fresh and that makes them alot more interesting than a retirement community. It doesn't matter that some of the riders are young and untested because from the looks of it Sky will be a well organized team which will lift alot of riders. Especially important is Scott Sunderland who is a great DS.

Noone is expecting Sky to compete with Columbia in any way but they will probably have a pretty decent season and at least be in the top half of the pro tour teams.

One important factor though is how the rest of the squads will look like. There are still quite a few spots open on both teams so things can still change but the fact remains that Sky is fresher which is alot more interesting for anyone following the sport.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

The rest of the squad have enough depth to compete throughout the year a la columbia, but with not the quantity of wins. i certainly think they are a stronger team than cervelo.

although I agree they have a good enough team to compete I disagree they are any stronger then cervelo were this year. EBH is the main stronger point over cervelo, but as a team on a whole cervelo are/were stronger imo.

 

[cromagnon]

Just so you know there is more to cycling than grand tours

Hah I knew someone would roll this one out.

1) If you are comparing anyone to Radioshack you have no choice but to talk about GT potential as that is what the Shack mainly are focussing on

2) David Brailsford said the stated aim of Sky was to win the Tour

3) Even in the classics Radioshack are going to mix things up

4) I have personally been by the road at dozens of races and none of them were in July. How about you?

Whoever voted Sky on this poll has not looked at the bunch of no-hopers Sky have signed with a sprinkling of stage-winner riders.

I am far from an Armstrong fan, the more I learn about him the less I like him, however I can be objective about this comparison.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Radio Shack will probably get big results quicker, but ultimately Team Sky will prevail. If/when Wiggins and Cav make it over, watch out, as they will be a force!

That's the way I see it. I was initially disappointed by the Sky line, but Brailford has always said his goals are long term.
Both Lovkvist and EBH had terrific Giro's, yet, still are novices.
Perfect for a 5 year plan, assuming they stick around.
Riders will gradually be brought in to strengthen the squad and this will include one or more serious GT contender.

In contrast, I expect the Shack to be competitive at the Tour and possibly, the Giro, (depending upon the California situation) next year.
However, the riders signed who are not from the old days, appear to be a bit of a mish mash. Some have potential, some remain obscure.
I can see them being virtually invisible outside of a few major stage races.

As for their long term plan, I can't see one beyond Lance's short shelf life.

 

[Moondance]

I disagree. The hype around that guy is outrageous. When EBH podiums at a GT as the others I've mentioned we can revisit.

You know what, you've kind of brought me around on this.

You know who else is so totally overrated? That Mark Cavendish dude. Didn't he finish, like, 140th in the Tour this year? Jeez, I can't believe people think so highly of this guy.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

You know what, you've kind of brought me around on this.

You know who else is so totally overrated? That Mark Cavendish dude. Didn't he finish, like, 140th in the Tour this year? Jeez, I can't believe people think so highly of this guy.

Especially when you consider that Cavendish alone had 23 victories this year and all of Astana had only 20.

Susan

 

[cromagnon]

The best part, is that time will tell. I will save this thread

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

That's the way I see it. I was initially disappointed by the Sky line, but Brailford has always said his goals are long term.
Both Lovkvist and EBH had terrific Giro's, yet, still are novices.
Perfect for a 5 year plan, assuming they stick around.

Give Lovkvist 5 years, he still wont win a GT. like someone else said, he is a top ten GT rider at best... maybe with a rare podium finish.