Rasmussen Basso Vino Ricco Landis Hamilton

[blackcat]

Should the guys like Rasmussen, Basso, Vino, Ricco, Landis, and Hamilton, be welcomed back into the Protour, and allowed to ride the Tour, and allowed to ride charged. My standpoint is, the current top echelon are charged, so why cannot these riders be given the same chance?

Were they doing anything different than Armstrong?

Landis has really had his life been torn down, partly his choice and fault, partly a victim of circumstance and bad counsel. But will the sport chew through some more sacrifices for the pyre. There was an Australian trackie who recently died, cant remember the name atm, who was a victim of the culture.

There has to be some consideration of the welfare of riders, and those in power must take responsibility.

So the question pose is, do you think these riders should be welcomed back, and should they be allowed to "do what the top echelon is doing". Read that as code for doping. If it does not show up it is not doping...

 

[Anonymous]

cant answer the same for all of them im afraid... different cases, different circumstances, different admissions and defences.. there isnt a one size fits all answer

 

[blackcat]

cant answer the same for all of them im afraid... different cases, different circumstances, different admissions and defences.. there isnt a one size fits all answer

so you insert the premise that is begins when they get caught.

OK, backtrack a little for the sake of the hypothetical.

They get caught, then, there is no differentiation from that point. In effect, they are just caught and automatically sanctioned.

Why are they in a different position to Armstrong? Cancer? Power, politics, money?

Ok, I am a naif, that is the ways of the world. But this is a hypothetical. I want to know why some will endorse a different treatment for others, subconciously or overtly.

 

[pedaling squares]

The choices in this poll are strange. Yes, they should be welcomed back upon serving their punishment. There is no point having a fixed term suspension if the rider won't be welcomed back. Of course they should have to ride clean, those are the rules. Sure there are rule-breakers, but again, that is why we have tests, suspensions etc. Allowing them to do "what the top echelon does" is just giving up, you might as well throw away the rule book at that point.

I know this might lead to the arguments about Pat M turning a blind eye or warning some top teams to pull charged riders, but I can't buy into every conspiracy theory out there.

 

[blackcat]

well sorry for the options PS.

So do you agree to Armstrong being welcomed back with open arms, when he is just gonna charge. Basso and Landis would be given compulsory hiatuses from July. I think Millar maybe the one high profile rider, who is given an open invite to the Tour. No extra penance for Millar, no siree.

 

[workingclasshero]

Rasmussen NO as it seems he continued to be involved in the doping scene in an administrator role last year while suspended. incredibly stupid. plus pics of him topless give me nightmares

Basso YES as he hasn't tried too much to make excuses, he hardly seems to believe the 'only had planned on it' line himself

Vino YES as he is a breath of fresh air. extra points for a ridiculous attempt at an explanation for his positive. seemed like something he felt he had to say, he doesn't mind people knowing he dopes

Ricco NAH doesn't seem likeable at all

Landis NO as he overdid the process of trying to clear his name. what mugs does he think we are?

Hamilton YES after his suspension is served. which is in, what, eight years? anyhoo, he seems alright for a yank, tyler

 

[pedaling squares]

well sorry for the options PS.

So do you agree to Armstrong being welcomed back with open arms, when he is just gonna charge. Basso and Landis would be given compulsory hiatuses from July. I think Millar maybe the one high profile rider, who is given an open invite to the Tour. No extra penance for Millar, no siree.

I also believe that Armstrong is breaking the rules, but until he fails a test or is otherwise proven to be cheating, of course he should be welcomed. I know about the 1999 corticosteroids and EPO, I'm referring to current tests. Basso served his time, so welcome back Ivan. Landis too. Sure Basso insulted our intelligence, and Floyd grabbed on to every thin branch he could reach, but the bottom line is - they did their time. I don't like having dopers in the peloton, but as I wrote before there is no point in having a suspension if you aren't going to allow them back.

 

[Anonymous]

Rasmussen NO as it seems he continued to be involved in the doping scene in an administrator role last year while suspended. incredibly stupid. plus pics of him topless give me nightmares

Basso YES as he hasn't tried too much to make excuses, he hardly seems to believe the 'only had planned on it' line himself

Vino YES as he is a breath of fresh air. extra points for a ridiculous attempt at an explanation for his positive. seemed like something he felt he had to say, he doesn't mind people knowing he dopes

Ricco NAH doesn't seem likeable at all

Landis NO as he overdid the process of trying to clear his name. what mugs does he think we are?

Hamilton YES after his suspension is served. which is in, what, eight years? anyhoo, he seems alright for a yank, tyler

pretty much my thoughts.. Vino, Hamilton, Basso Yes, Ricco, Landis, Rasmusson NO...

thats why i couldnt answer the poll, different circumstances over the bans, different responses, ie some held up their hands admitted it, some denied everything, and some behavior since, ie. rasmusson and even worse Riccos complete arrogance over the whole matter.. The crimes maybe the same, but parole boards take more than the crime into account when considering release..

 

[Krebs cycle]

There should be a minimum 4yr ban, reduce it to 2yrs if the athlete admits guilt and provides information regarding where and how they received their "meds" and have provision for up to 6yrs if the athlete is found to lie under oath and/or concoct some half-baked lame excuse ie: they maintain their innocence but additional supporting evidence (eg: witness testimony, circumstantial evidence etc) suggests otherwise. Also, I think positive doping infringements should be additive ie: if you test positive for 2 different substances you're looking at 8yrs minimum (down to 4 if guilt is admited as above)

There needs to be some sort of incentive to crack the omerta and at present 2yrs just isn't good enough.

 

[Cobber]

There should be a minimum 4yr ban, reduce it to 2yrs if the athlete admits guilt and provides information regarding where and how they received their "meds" and have provision for up to 6yrs if the athlete is found to lie under oath and/or concoct some half-baked lame excuse ie: they maintain their innocence but additional supporting evidence (eg: witness testimony, circumstantial evidence etc) suggests otherwise. Also, I think positive doping infringements should be additive ie: if you test positive for 2 different substances you're looking at 8yrs minimum (down to 4 if guilt is admited as above)

There needs to be some sort of incentive to crack the omerta and at present 2yrs just isn't good enough.

+1... great suggestion, Krebs.

 

[joe_papp]

Rasmussen NO as it seems he continued to be involved in the doping scene in an administrator role last year while suspended. incredibly stupid. plus pics of him topless give me nightmares

Basso YES as he hasn't tried too much to make excuses, he hardly seems to believe the 'only had planned on it' line himself

Vino YES as he is a breath of fresh air. extra points for a ridiculous attempt at an explanation for his positive. seemed like something he felt he had to say, he doesn't mind people knowing he dopes

Ricco NAH doesn't seem likeable at all

Landis NO as he overdid the process of trying to clear his name. what mugs does he think we are?

Hamilton YES after his suspension is served. which is in, what, eight years? anyhoo, he seems alright for a yank, tyler

ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!

 

[Ferminal]

These riders are only a symptom of the system which makes them who they are.

I don't have a problem with these people coming back and joining the level playing field. At least we know that "these guys are all evil dopers"whilst many others do their business without a concern of ever being caught.

If the sport was clean, then no cheater should ever race again, but guess what...

 

[forty four]

ricco and rasmussen seem like genuinely suspect individuals doping aside. i would not lose sleep if they went away from cycling the rest i have no issue with returning.

 

[Escarabajo]

Everybody deserves a second opportunity. But obviously, riding clean.

 

[markool]

That's the problem though, isn't it

Everybody deserves a second opportunity. But obviously, riding clean.

That's the problem though, isn't it; how do you know that someone is clean?

What is clean?

Is it not failing any tests? Bzzzzz. How many times do we have to hear from someone that they passed tests while doping? How about using techniques that can not be reliably tested for? Bags of blood on rest days for example....

What is cheating? For example, are altitude tents cheating?

I think one sure thing that needs to happen before someone can come back is that they outline their complete regime that they were using. That is, what they used, how it was administered, who supplied it etc. The only way to remove weeds from the garden is to get the entire plant, roots and all. Just ripping the flower off the top might make it less visible, but it is still there...

My 2 cents.

 

[Andrichuk]

They knew what they were doing was illegal and went ahead and did it anyways. They are grown men, they know right from wrong and went ahead and chose to dope.

I see no reason why behavior such as that should be tolerated. It ruins the sport for everyone who rides clean.

 

[Kerbdog]

The line is clearly drawn as regards doping & cheating, your not supposed to do it. Those are the rules of any clean sport. We have current sanctions in place which have ultimately proved to be not enough. I like Krebs new list that should be drawn up, make the penalties even more severe.
Anyway regarding our friends in the title yes they should be allowed back as the time has been done. Some have not been as repentant as others but look they all have different personalities etc. Ricco disgusts me the most as he not only stole 2 stages in last years Tour but he then goes crying about how he should have a reduced ban!!! Rasmussen is spooky, unfortunately its how he looks & the whole centrifuge purchase thing is disgusting too if he bought it in the last 2 years whilst already under a sanction.
The phrase "they are only doing what others are or were" doesnt & never will wash with me. You make a conscious decision to do something wrong & you can pay the according price.

 

[blackcat]

The line is clearly drawn as regards doping & cheating, your not supposed to do it. Those are the rules of any clean sport. We have current sanctions in place which have ultimately proved to be not enough. I like Krebs new list that should be drawn up, make the penalties even more severe.
Anyway regarding our friends in the title yes they should be allowed back as the time has been done. Some have not been as repentant as others but look they all have different personalities etc. Ricco disgusts me the most as he not only stole 2 stages in last years Tour but he then goes crying about how he should have a reduced ban!!! Rasmussen is spooky, unfortunately its how he looks & the whole centrifuge purchase thing is disgusting too if he bought it in the last 2 years whilst already under a sanction.
The phrase "they are only doing what others are or were" doesnt & never will wash with me. You make a conscious decision to do something wrong & you can pay the according price.

I hate the doping culture, turning me off. But I hate the fact that there are scapegoats, and usually a few hold the can for the lot of the top tier who are charging. That should not be the case.

 

[PACONi]

Everyone deserves a second chance. Just don't expect me to cheer for them.
Obviously they should be clean upon their comebacks, just as the current crop who are yet to be caught should be riding clean.

The trackie was Jobie Djaika (spelling might be off). By all accounts he was very hard done by when he was dropped from the Athens team, ie a scapegoat. Despite that I'm not sure he was the most stable character anyway. But, hey he was a sprinter and those guys are all crazy!

 

[Mellow Velo]

Everybody seems to hate Ricco and would happily slap him with a life ban.

Why? He's only arrogant, self-centred, egotisical, prone to shooting his mouth off, at every opportunity, trashing his opponents and team mates, alike, rode in yellow........
......oh wait a minute.......Yeah, give the guy a lifetime ban!

 

[PACONi]

Everybody seems to hate Ricco and would happily slap him with a life ban.

Why? He's only arrogant, self-centred, egotisical, prone to shooting his mouth off, at every opportunity, trashing his opponents and team mates, alike, rode in yellow........
......oh wait a minute.......Yeah, give the guy a lifetime ban!

Ricco can be a tool, but I am looking forward to him coming back. Whilst I might not want to see him win, he'll certainly make things interesting.

Plus we'll get the comments live, not via twitter

 

[bommels]

So am I right in thinking that most people over here seem to hate Ricco, but like Hamilton? How very odd, IMHO.

Ricco only got caught once, and did not make up lame excuses about his twin, a possible operation, naturally odd blood values and/or his dog. Instead he was quite frank in admitting that he used CERA and therefore all his tests should have been positive instead of just only a single one crossing the threshold.

Then, Hamilton. Stole not only a TdF stage amongst a few other wins, but also keeps his tainted Olympic gold. In that year, he got a warning on his blood values during the Tour of Romandie, he got away with that B-sample thing at the Olympics and then he got caught red-handed in the Vuelta. Since then, he's been a pathetic liar about all things doping related, and is now finally caught on yet another PED, which he finally (gladly?) admitted.

Not to say I don't feel sorry for Hamilton, but the preference of most of the reactions in this thread does puzzle me a bit. Is it because Hamilton does not speak as much, and when he does, English (US) comes out?

 

[Jonathan]

cant answer the same for all of them im afraid... different cases, different circumstances, different admissions and defences.. there isnt a one size fits all answer

Ofcourse there is one answer. Once their suspension ends, they can race. And if they don't test positive, their results are fine. There is no way to guarantee that they are riding clean, so the second option is the only realistic answer.

 

[PACONi]

So am I right in thinking that most people over here seem to hate Ricco, but like Hamilton? How very odd, IMHO.

Not so. Cycling is soooo much better off without Hamilton.

 

[luckyboy]

Ricco NAH doesn't seem likeable at all

Good reason for keeping someone banned