Rate the 2017 Giro d'Italia

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Just try and put an old fashioned real balanced GT in with 110km ITT in (prologue + 1 hilly time trial + 1 flat time trial) and at least 5 good mountain stages. I think the climbers forgot how to be creative because they are now used to waiting on the final 3km of the final climb.
They can't afford that luxury on an actual balanced route

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Just try and put an old fashioned real balanced GT in with 110km ITT in (prologue + 1 hilly time trial + 1 flat time trial) and at least 5 good mountain stages. I think the climbers forgot how to be creative because they are now used to waiting on the final 3km of the final climb.
They can't afford that luxury on an actual balanced route

The problem with that is that the best TTer of the GC contenders is also the best climber or at worst 2nd best (Froome).

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

That's not a problem. That's a lack of talent of the others.

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

And I do not agree that there should be more TT km´s, in era like this where is much bigger problem to make difference in mountains due to speed there should be less TT, like in Tour de France last years, otherwise it will be super boring like worst GT ever, Tour 2012 [/quote]


only boring because of the lack of proper mountains, and the only person who could take that much time off Wiggins was on the same team. IMO there should never be fewer than 60-70 km, and never more than 120, but whatever the total it needs to be balanced with the rest of the route.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

That's not a problem. That's a lack of talent of the others.

Strongly disagree.

Tell that to the small climbers. By the law of physics they will always be in mismatch in the TT's.

I am not whining about the amount of TT's. Is OK with me. I am complaining about the people who insult or denigrate the small climbers because they suck at Time Trialing which I think it is absurd.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

We've had so many GT's lately with focus on the climbers. GT's aren't a climb only thing. It's the best overall rider that wins. Ofcourse you can make a more climb focussed GT here or there. That's normal. But not every 3 GT, every year.

And how is that unfair because the law of physics? By that same law it's unfair to big weight classic men who can never climb well because of their weight and height?

 

[kingjr]

Re: Re:

That's not a problem. That's a lack of talent of the others.

Strongly disagree.

Tell that to the small climbers. By the law of physics they will always be in mismatch in the TT's.

I am not whining about the amount of TT's. Is OK with me. I am complaining about the people who insult or denigrate the small climbers because they suck at Time Trialing which I think it is absurd.

Do you also complain about those who insult and mock heavy sprinters because they get dropped on climbs?

 

[portugal11]

Re: Re:

That's not a problem. That's a lack of talent of the others.

Strongly disagree.

Tell that to the small climbers. By the law of physics they will always be in mismatch in the TT's.

I am not whining about the amount of TT's. Is OK with me. I am complaining about the people who insult or denigrate the small climbers because they suck at Time Trialing which I think it is absurd.

By the law of physics, small climbers will always be benefited on climbs...

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Funny how 3 people in a row respond the same

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

That's not a problem. That's a lack of talent of the others.

Strongly disagree.

Tell that to the small climbers. By the law of physics they will always be in mismatch in the TT's.

I am not whining about the amount of TT's. Is OK with me. I am complaining about the people who insult or denigrate the small climbers because they suck at Time Trialing which I think it is absurd.

Do you also complain about those who insult and mock heavy sprinters because they get dropped on climbs?

No. Sprinters are a bit heavier by design as opposed to other tall riders.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

Funny how 3 people in a row respond the same

So what. It doesn't mean you are right.

Again I don't care about the time trialing kilometers. I thought they were fair.

It should be equivalent comparing a tall guy versus a small guy but history has showed us that is not. The mismatch always benefit the taller guys. look it up in the GT's GC podiums. It made it worse after the 90's. I am not a scientist but when the best TT is the the second or best climber it becomes a lose-lose game.

In response to your quote and also quoting what Quintana said in an interview no matter how much I try the physics does not allow me to be good or among the best. Do you think he can? What about Belda? Vanympe?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Aside from TT's. Quintana is also not very good on windy stages, cobbles and not more than decent on hills.

It's just very limited for a GT rider. Which is why it's a testament to his great level and consistent climbing that he managed to podium nearly every GT he enters.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a fan of climbers and especially Quintana's style of climbing and attacking. I also think the critics of him this Giro are largely unfair as he has tried nearly everytime the road went uphill. He just didn't seem to be able to hold a gap. Which is largely down to the fact this wasn't 100% Quintana

 

[Escarabajo]

Fair enough.

BTW, at the Tour I think he did good at the cobbles stage. He tries hard but it is simply very difficult for him. Like in the stage 3 of the Giro. He did good but the elastic broke with him. But boy, he was pushing those pedals like crazy.

But for me is a fair game with him because he needs to earn the win in the mountains. So I am fine with the TT this Giro had.

 

[kingjr]

Re: Re:

That's not a problem. That's a lack of talent of the others.

Strongly disagree.

Tell that to the small climbers. By the law of physics they will always be in mismatch in the TT's.

I am not whining about the amount of TT's. Is OK with me. I am complaining about the people who insult or denigrate the small climbers because they suck at Time Trialing which I think it is absurd.

Do you also complain about those who insult and mock heavy sprinters because they get dropped on climbs?

No. Sprinters are a bit heavier by design as opposed to other tall riders.

What do you mean?

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

That's not a problem. That's a lack of talent of the others.

Strongly disagree.

Tell that to the small climbers. By the law of physics they will always be in mismatch in the TT's.

I am not whining about the amount of TT's. Is OK with me. I am complaining about the people who insult or denigrate the small climbers because they suck at Time Trialing which I think it is absurd.

Do you also complain about those who insult and mock heavy sprinters because they get dropped on climbs?

No. Sprinters are a bit heavier by design as opposed to other tall riders.

What do you mean?

We were talking specifically about GC contenders here. Discussing why is it a handicap for some and not for others (mountains versus TT). Sprinters are not contending for GC. Hec some of them do badly on the TT as well.

 

[Netserk]

And midgets shouldn't be contending for GC either...

 

[red_flanders]

Good edition for sure. Route was very good, nice to see a new rider emerge, great to see the TT make a difference. Suspenseful to the last. I gave it an 8. Not sure what could push it into 9 or 10 except maybe a dramatic head to head between great champions and an epic route. 8 is a great grade from my POV.

 

[red_flanders]

Re:

Just try and put an old fashioned real balanced GT in with 110km ITT in (prologue + 1 hilly time trial + 1 flat time trial) and at least 5 good mountain stages. I think the climbers forgot how to be creative because they are now used to waiting on the final 3km of the final climb.
They can't afford that luxury on an actual balanced route

Outstanding points. Great post.

 

[The Hegelian]

Re:

Just try and put an old fashioned real balanced GT in with 110km ITT in (prologue + 1 hilly time trial + 1 flat time trial) and at least 5 good mountain stages. I think the climbers forgot how to be creative because they are now used to waiting on the final 3km of the final climb.
They can't afford that luxury on an actual balanced route

Yeah, I agree with this. There was a long boring period when GT's were dominated by time trial specialists who could defend in the mountains - not just Indurain, but that era, and going back to the 80's. And one always hoped that the climbers could do something, but it was like hoping the coyote would catch the road runner.

But now it has swung way too far toward the climbers. On a balanced route, a climber should have to make up 5-6mins from tt losses - and yeah, that's going to equal something more creative/brazen/aggressive on their favoured terrain.

 

[Red Rick]

Good luck with sustained agression when Sky is on the road

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Calculated back some of the time gaps.. and basically the Giro was only exciting because of poopgate, 100%.

Because dumoulin gained in TT
4 minutes on Quintana and Pinot
3 minutes on Nibali

And lost in the mountains (-Stelvio stage)
24 (Blockhaus) - 14 (Oropa) + 0 (Ortisei) + 1.09 (Ortisei) + 15 (Asiago) = 1.34 on Quintana
Add boni seconds and maybe 30 seconds on Stelvio and it's 2:04 -> Never close
-36 + -43 +0 +1.07 +15 = 13 seconds loss on Nibali. Add Stelvio 40s (if he would've dropped at all without poopgate) = 53 seconds. No tension

The whole image of Dumoulin dropping minutes in the mountains is a myth

 

[Cance > TheRest]

6.

It was an okay race for the last two weeks.