Tour de France Rate the 2022 Tour de France route

[gregrowlerson]

You're probably right.

I guess that just many of the ski resorts happily paying for a Tour are just unfortunately placed for great racing.

Brokeback Mountain's slogan:

"You had me at connecting climbs."

 

[OlavEH]

I guess that just many of the ski resorts happily paying for a Tour are just unfortunately placed for great racing.

Is it always the ski resort that pays? Like Peyragudes? Is it them or the town of Bagneres de Luchon? Same for Belles Filles. Is it them or the regional authorities?

 

[Mayomaniac]

Is it always the ski resort that pays? Like Peyragudes? Is it them or the town of Bagneres de Luchon? Same for Belles Filles. Is it them or the regional authorities?

I can only speak about what I know from the Giro, but it depends. Sometimes it's mainly the ski resort, sometimes it's mainly the region and sometimes it's mainly the town. There's also the political aspect, if the region is paying usually towns that are ruled by a different party don't get a stage (at least in Italy).

 

[Netserk]

Speaking of MTTs, I think the perfect one for the Tour would be Annecy-Semnoz (easy logistics, beautiful area, a proper city at the feet of the climb), but Mont Revard from either side would be great as well, you could even have it in the middle of an ITT like Chaubouret in 1997 (example). Preferably as the first stage of a mountain block.

But I don't think we'll see monster TTs that would create so big gaps again.

 

[Escarabajo]

What would the modern peloton think of the 1983 tour de france stage of Bourg D'Oisans to Morzine?

10 Hardest stages ever in Grand Tours

Coppi in Cuneo Pinerolo It is difficult to make a list of the hardest stages in Grand Tours ever. After doing some research, you can read th...

montefuscocycling.blogspot.com

247 km with Glandon, Madeleine, Aravis, Colombiere, Chatillion, with the final climb of the Joux Plane.

The tour should have 1 of these epic stages in every edition. Just balance it out with normal amounts of TTing

LOL. Now I know I am wrong. Every time I talk about ASO putting longer stages I am usually referring to the Morzine stage in 1983. Little I knew that it was classified among the hardest in history. Now I know that ASO will never do that in a race again. I watched that stage like 100 times during my youth. I fell in love with cycling at that point. The riders literally dragging their bikes up the mountain.

 

[houtdffan]

LOL. Now I know I am wrong. Every time I talk about ASO putting longer stages I am usually referring to the Morzine stage in 1983. Little I knew that it was classified among the hardest in history. Now I know that ASO will never do that in a race again. I watched that stage like 100 times during my youth. I fell in love with cycling at that point. The riders literally dragging their bikes up the mountain.

That's a shame we don't see stages like that any longer

There's some really GREAT ones we could do in the Pyrenees such as Foix to La Mongie and include the Core, Portet D'Aspet, Mente, Bales, Peyresourde, Aspin, La Mongie (or even finish at the TOP, not the Tourmalet, but the Pic Du Midi).

Get rid of the youtube stages we currently have and get back to real mountain stages

I'm curious, how long would Foix to La Mongie be with the route I proposed?

 

[Tonton]

I had to dig really deep to give this my usual 8. A short ITT and two flat stages, that's all we could expect with a start in Denmark. Stage 4 is a waste, ASO sells it as hilly...what a joke. Wind? maybe. A stage with cobbles is always cool, then Stage 6 has Alaf' written all over it. ASO is baiting Pinot with Stage 7, hoping he resurrects. Me too. Stage 8 on a Saturday in the Jura is underwhelming: there are many ways to go from Dole to Lausanne with a little more spice. Alaf' to win this bike race. Stage 9 is good. Stage 10, okay after a rest day, Pog-Rog duel in the final kilometer. Granon is back, finally! I love Stage 11. It could be raced defensively ahead of Stage 12 to AdH, but if you are Bernal, Carapaz and you know that the ITTs will cost you 2-3 minutes, you have to go all in. AdH for Bastille Day: I can see Bardet/Pinot win the day. Stage 13, meh. Saturday with a finish in Jaja/Mende okay. Stage 15 on a Sunday is a disgrace. Stages 16 to 18 with increasing difficulty...I would have preferred a better stage on Sunday, Stage 15 after rest day, then Stages 17-16-18. Stage 19 okay, Stage 20 a little short. Aside from bringing the Granon back, not much creativity in the design, a decent route.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

I'm curious, how long would Foix to La Mongie be with the route I proposed?

253k, including neutralisation.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

People are complaining too much. 2001 had six flat(tish) stages in the final week, including the time trial. There was only one stage in the middle mountains, and four in the high mountains. I wonder how people would react if that came back.

Things being worse at certain points in the past doesn't mean things can't be bad now.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Just make a stage from Mauleon-Licharre to Lourdes that Includes Soudet-Labays, Marie Blanque, Anubisque and Spadelles one day after a big MTF.
Something like this would be just over 190kms and really hard:
https://www.openrunner.com/r/13842222

 

[houtdffan]

253k, including neutralisation.

That would be a doable stage then. Similar to the Arcalis stage in 1997 that Ullrich won

 

[OlavEH]

There's some really GREAT ones we could do in the Pyrenees such as Foix to La Mongie and include the Core, Portet D'Aspet, Mente, Bales, Peyresourde, Aspin, La Mongie (or even finish at the TOP, not the Tourmalet, but the Pic Du Midi).

Get rid of the youtube stages we currently have and get back to real mountain stages

I don't think we'll ever see this kind of stage in Tour. Over 250 km and something like 6000+ height meters. That's just too much. But it should be possible to create something like the Pla d'Adet stage in 2005 (Portet d'Aspet, Mente, Portillon, Peyresourde, Azet and Pla d'Adet) or a similar stage to La Mongie using for example Portillon, Peyresourde, Azet, Ancizan and La Mongie). 200 km and 5-6 climbs, most cat 1, should be sufficient for some good racing.

 

[houtdffan]

I don't think we'll ever see this kind of stage in Tour. Over 250 km and something like 6000+ height meters. That's just too much. But it should be possible to create something like the Pla d'Adet stage in 2005 (Portet d'Aspet, Mente, Portillon, Peyresourde, Azet and Pla d'Adet) or a similar stage to La Mongie using for example Portillon, Peyresourde, Azet, Ancizan and La Mongie). 200 km and 5-6 climbs, most cat 1, should be sufficient for some good racing.

With Gouveneou, yeah, we probably won't see 250km with 6000+m of climbing. Used to see 1 or 2 of those stages each tour though

 

[OlavEH]

With Gouveneou, yeah, we probably won't see 250km with 6000+m of climbing. Used to see 1 or 2 of those stages each tour though

You used to see 250 km stages in each tour, but not 250km with 6000+ height meters. That would have put the stage right into the list of top 10 hardest climbs in Grand Tours which was posted above. The stage you outlined was harder than any on that list.

 

[Roku]

I can't rate it higher than 5 or 6 (I voted for 5) due to:

- There's only one stage with a climb right after the start. Mountain breaks will be made up by lesser riders and there's smaller chance to long-range attacks that damage GC leader's team

- Abscense of a single long mountain stage.

- There's only one mountain stage finishing with a downhill if i'm not mistaken.

- Frigging gimmick MTF finishes (PDBF and Peyragudes) again.

On the plus side, cobbles and nice first week.

 

[houtdffan]

You used to see 250 km stages in each tour, but not 250km with 6000+ height meters. That would have put the stage right into the list of top 10 hardest climbs in Grand Tours which was posted above. The stage you outlined was harder than any on that list.

harder than Morzine 1983?

 

[Red Rick]

How much would Madeleine - Telegraphe - Galibier - Alpe d'Huez be?

 

[rghysens]

How much would Madeleine - Telegraphe - Galibier - Alpe d'Huez be?

Around 5500?

 

[OlavEH]

harder than Morzine 1983?

About the same level.

 

[Red Rick]

Around 5500?

It's about the most I can see them crank into a "conventional" ASO queen stage, so basically the 2018 AdH stage but with Galibier north instead of Croix de Fer. Or maybe there's some combinations with Madeleine, Glandon, Chaussy etc.

I don't actually think so much of it as "too hard" but more that just making *** hard as *** itself doesn't have to do super much if it just means they'll ride very slowly for the first few climbs. They had a brutal queen stage in 2013 and *** all happened cause the overall design was poor.

I think it's more feasable the ASO will make a monster stage that just happens to be 180km long than one of the classical 250km ones, and that's fine.

 

[OlavEH]

It's about the most I can see them crank into a "conventional" ASO queen stage, so basically the 2018 AdH stage but with Galibier north instead of Croix de Fer. Or maybe there's some combinations with Madeleine, Glandon, Chaussy etc.

This is probably true. Either Madeleine or Croix de Fer followed by Galibier north and Alpe d'Huez is probably as hard as ASO would be willing to create at present day. It would a small notch tougher than 2018 Alpe or next year's stage. We will probably never see a stage including all those four climbs. In the Pyrenees the toughest I think we'll see is something like a stage doing Peyresourde-Aspin-Tourmalet before finishing in Luz Ardiden.

 

[houtdffan]

After the Sestrieres stage in 1992, the tour then did Montgenevre, Galiber, Croix de Fer, and then Alpe D'Huez the very next day.

Not sure we'll ever see two queen stages back to back again in our life times. Of course, those were the only 2 high mountain stages of the entire tour that year

 

[OlavEH]

After the Sestrieres stage in 1992, the tour then did Montgenevre, Galiber, Croix de Fer, and then Alpe D'Huez the very next day.

Not sure we'll ever see two queen stages back to back again in our life times. Of course, those were the only 2 high mountain stages of the entire tour that year

No real Pyrenees stages and a couple of descent finishes in Massif Central and Vosges. Then I acutally prefer next year's route.

But there is a golden middle way. You could easliy do one or two more flat stages next year, at least one less MTF and still have a far better route overall if they did some other adjustments.

 

[Red Rick]

This is probably true. Either Madeleine or Croix de Fer followed by Galibier north and Alpe d'Huez is probably as hard as ASO would be willing to create at present day. It would a small notch tougher than 2018 Alpe or next year's stage. We will probably never see a stage including all those four climbs. In the Pyrenees the toughest I think we'll see is something like a stage doing Peyresourde-Aspin-Tourmalet before finishing in Luz Ardiden.

It think if they get in Tourmalet before a Portet finish it would probably be harder.

 

[OlavEH]

It think if they get in Tourmalet before a Portet finish it would probably be harder.

That would be something like Tourmalet-Aspin-Azet-Portet? Perhaps.

Btw, I mapped a stage from St.Michel de Maurinne to St.Francois Longchamps. That would be Telegraphe - Galibier - Croix de Fer - Chaussy - St.Francois Longchamps. 188 km or 196 km if you included Col de Mollard. That would be a proper queen stage and a way to make Madeleine highly relevant. But I don' think it's ever going to happen.