Rate the "epic mediocrity" of the 2011 Vuelta a España route

[Descender]

I'll skip the images to keep my message short



Just one correction:
That profile of Cobertoria east is before the road was 'improved'. The climb is now a bit shorter and steeper.

And one addition:
The stage to Sierra Nevada this year features for the first time what they call Alto de los Filabres. Its south side (the one they'll descend) also deserves honour as a hard climb (long but not very steep) which could be preceded by either La Ragua or Velefique + Venta Luisa, with the option to have a downhill stage finish at Baza.

http://www.altimetrias.net/aspbk/verPerfilusu.asp?id=767

Hmm I'm pretty sure the profile I posted is the current one, after the roadworks.

The Sierra Nevada stage reminds me a lot of the one in 09, that time harder of course with Ragua from Cherín and Sierra Nevada through Monachil+Sabinas (looks like they'll go up the main road this time... well, understandable being so early).

It's very positive that they unveil so many hard climbs this year, more than ever. Farrapona, Filabres, Manzaneda, San Lorenzo east, Ancares... good sign.

 

[Mellow Velo]

So, anyhow, we have La Vuelta with it's first MTF on stage 4, Il Giro with theirs on stage 6 and Le Tour on...................erm................stage 12.

 

[theyoungest]

So, anyhow, we have La Vuelta with it's first MTF on stage 4, Il Giro with theirs on stage 6 and Le Tour on...................erm................stage 12.

What about stage 8, Super-Besse? It's not Sierra Nevada or anything, but it's a mountain of sorts. And the first stage actually has an uphill finish, as does the 4th. It's not Cavendish all the way.

 

[hfer07]

I think this year's Vuelta is well laid out & mostly balanced with plenty of mountains, mixed & flat stages for the liking of all kinds of riders. perhaps we're currently so in love with the Giro, that we may get disenchanted instantly by what the other GT's offer.
So far the Parcours quality IMO stands like this:
1-) Giro
2-) Vuelta
3-) Tour

 

[Mellow Velo]

What about stage 8, Super-Besse? It's not Sierra Nevada or anything, but it's a mountain of sorts. And the first stage actually has an uphill finish, as does the 4th. It's not Cavendish all the way.

7kms or so at 4%? A bit of a stretch to call that a proper GT MTF.
Montevergine gets called into question, since it's 17kms long, but only 5% average gradient.
I guess we can live with a Mountain of sorts Top Finish, though!

 

[theyoungest]

7kms or so at 4%? A bit of a stretch to call that a proper GT MTF.
Montevergine gets called into question, since it's 17kms long, but only 5% average gradient.
I guess we can live with a Mountain of sorts Top Finish, though!

Super-Besse does get quite steep toward the finish. It's where Ricco won his first stage in the Tour 2008.

 

[luckyboy]

So far the Parcours quality IMO stands like this:
1-) Giro
2-) Vuelta
3-) Tour

This has been every year for the past few years.

Very similar finishes, IMO.
I seem to recall that much of the run in is an uphill drag over cobbles, then it's a sharp left hand turn into the "wall".
As it goes up, it gets steeper and narrower, but the cobbles eventually die out.

It a longer climb, but not quite as steep, I would say; just under the 10% mark for 1.5-2kms. Maximum ramp I'd guess to be around 18-20%.

Again, I would stress this is from memory, so not necessarily gospel.

The CN article says the final km is at 23%, so they must mean that is the max gradient.

 

[icefire]

This has been every year for the past few years.




The CN article says the final km is at 23%, so they must mean that is the max gradient.

If the scale and level curves of google maps can be trusted, the street named in all the articles as holding the finish line is a bit shorter than 1km and has an elevation gain of 150m. Do your numbers.

 

[Descender]

I'll post the picture of that street again:

 

[The Hitch]

If the scale and level curves of google maps can be trusted, the street named in all the articles as holding the finish line is a bit shorter than 1km and has an elevation gain of 150m. Do your numbers.

a^2 + b^2 = c^2\!\,

 

[roundabout]

So, anyhow, we have La Vuelta with it's first MTF on stage 4, Il Giro with theirs on stage 6 and Le Tour on...................erm................stage 12.

On the other hand

number of mountain stages with 3 cat1 or higher mountains

Tour 4

Vuelta ....

 

[The Hitch]

If the scale and level curves of google maps can be trusted, the street named in all the articles as holding the finish line is a bit shorter than 1km and has an elevation gain of 150m. Do your numbers.

So the adjecent is 1000m. The opposite is 150m. The gradient is A

Tan A = O/A

Tan A = 150/1000

Tan A = 0.15

Tan -1 0.15 = 8.53

 

[luckyboy]

If the scale and level curves of google maps can be trusted, the street named in all the articles as holding the finish line is a bit shorter than 1km and has an elevation gain of 150m. Do your numbers.

So the average gradient is 15%, but there are probably sections that are steeper than others like I said.

 

[uphillstruggle]

I say about a 7. I personally don't mind the lack of TT kms in the grand tours per se I just think they should shuffle the pack fairly regularly - a few years weighted to the climbers - then a few years with more TT kms where the diesels have the advantage. They seem, however, to do these phases by the decade rather than every few years.

It is a little disappointing to see all the years GT's with so few TTing though, even if I love seeing the climber's win.

 

[The Hitch]

So the adjecent is 1000m. The opposite is 150m. The gradient is A

Tan A = O/A

Tan A = 150/1000

Tan A = 0.15

Tan -1 0.15 = 8.53

I forgot to convert the angle to the gradient.

8.53 in gradient is 14.99%

 

[Mellow Velo]

On the other hand

number of mountain stages with 3 cat1 or higher mountains

Tour 4

Vuelta ....

All about the commercial side of tv and media.
The Vuelta used to show whole mountain stages, but now it's only the final couple of hours, so no "shark's teeth" profile.
The Tour has gone in the other direction, with more, whole stage coverage.
There will be a packed schedule in next year's final week!

 

[Descender]

The Cabeza de Manzaneda:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZbqpbuGML8

 

[auscyclefan94]

I think the giro is too hard, I think the tour is too backlogged with mountain stages and la vuelta lacks stages with a few mountains preceeding a final MTF. All lack tt km's but I think my favourite route is actually la vuelta.

 

[theyoungest]

I think the giro is too hard, I think the tour is too backlogged with mountain stages and la vuelta lacks stages with a few mountains preceeding a final MTF. All lack tt km's but I think my favourite route is actually la vuelta.

For the life of me, I can't see what would make this Vuelta more fun than the Giro. Evans can win it, is that it?

 

[auscyclefan94]

For the life of me, I can't see what would make this Vuelta more fun than the Giro. Evans can win it, is that it?

I wonder if you would be *****ing if it was a route that didn't suit Gesink...Answer it honestly. It is partially about Evans but I other reasons just coming from a sporting fan.

Secondly, i just think that there should be more balance in GT's. Too much climbing. The time trial is an important part of the sport...why not have another 20-30km undulating tt near the end instead of the anti climatic finish that is la vuelta.

 

[theyoungest]

I wonder if you would be *****ing if it was a route that didn't suit Gesink...Answer it honestly. It is partially about Evans but I other reasons just coming from a sporting fan.

Secondly, i just think that there should be more balance in GT's. Too much climbing. The time trial is an important part of the sport...why not have another 20-30km undulating tt near the end instead of the anti climatic finish that is la vuelta.

I just called the Vuelta less exciting than the Giro... I wondered what made you think otherwise. And then I thought: it must have something to do with Evans, it's ACF after all...

 

[The Hitch]

I wonder if you would be *****ing if it was a route that didn't suit Gesink...Answer it honestly. It is partially about Evans but I other reasons just coming from a sporting fan.

To be fair to youngest he doesnt let support for the Condor cloud his judgment. Him and moondance usualy just joke that hell win everything and add a

Its the Timmylovesrabo and Rubens of this world that you should take their opinions on this matter with a pinch of salt

 

[Libertine Seguros]

On the other hand

number of mountain stages with 3 cat1 or higher mountains

Tour 4

Vuelta ....

You can't judge them against each other because they don't use the same mountain ranking system. There are climbs that are uncategorised in the Vuelta that would be a cat.3 or even maybe .2 in the Tour. And if you're making Verbier a cat.1 in the Tour (as it was in '09) then you need to have the HC category because Ventoux compared to Verbier is many times longer, harder and more intense.

In the Vuelta, they've gone for a carbon copy of the Giro's mountains categorisation. Only one climb in the whole race (I presume it will be Angliru) gets the 'special' categorisation; everything else can only be 1, 2 or 3 (though any MTF will get the 'finish' category, like at the Giro). And if climbs like San Lorenzo are cat.1, then climbs that aren't as tough shouldn't get the same rating. Think of how Passo Tonale was a cat.2 in the 2004 Giro, but would be an easy cat.1 in the Tour - because there's somewhere else to go when you do the Gavia and Mortirolo afterwards: cat.HC. The Giro can't give Tonale the same categorisation as Gavia and Mortirolo, so they must lower the other climb's ranking, and award fewer points.

 

[royalpig180]

I'm getting sick of GTs with so few ITTs. To win a GT, you are supposed to have be strong in the mountains as well in the TTs. The trend now is to simply be a very strong climber who can just hold on in the TTs (Contador bucked the trend a little bit). I'm ok with 1 or 2 GTs a year being really a climbers race (like all 3 next year), but we need some balance!

 

[blaxland]

I'm getting sick of GTs with so few ITTs. To win a GT, you are supposed to have be strong in the mountains as well in the TTs. The trend now is to simply be a very strong climber who can just hold on in the TTs (Contador bucked the trend a little bit). I'm ok with 1 or 2 GTs a year being really a climbers race (like all 3 next year), but we need some balance!

+1 agree royalpig180,It seems that this is the way Grand Tours are heading,favouring small framed climbers.Now all the french have to do is take all the HC and Cat 1 climbs out,all TTT and Individual TT and race all stages on Bastille day ,then they can win their Gand Tour Too