Rate the "epic success" of the 2011 Giro d italia.

[djconnel]

Oh. my. god.....

There's going to be like 13 riders arriving at the finish in Milan.....

Time gaps wide enough to weld a fork together in....

Cool. It's great the Giro isn't willing to accept a role as a second-tier training ride for the Tour. It says: to heck with the Tour. We are our own race, a race worth racing, a race worth winning even if it means you essentially destroy any hope of doing well in France.

There's increased evidence last year the anti-doping has has made a dent, that riders are actually getting tired in stage races: the era of the 1750 VAM cruise-control is, at least for now, over. This race will be a death march. I can't wait.

 

[gregrowlerson]

I voted an 8. Perhaps a 10 for the spectacle and a 6 for the riders!

Not enough ITT kms! They should have at least made the TTT just ITT. And I like MTT's, but since they had one last year they could have had it as a flat ITT instead. Or if a MTT then I think it is best to have it early on, even before the first major mountain stage (about stage 7).

All in all, the mountains are epic, but is this road cycling or mountain biking?

I hope that Basso focuses on France and skips Italy. With possibly AC out, this could be his final big chance.

As for Evans, the suggestion that he start the Tour, then pull out and focus on the Vuelta if he starts badly is a good one. He could still maybe podium in Tour and could still win Vuelta in 2011.

 

[skidmark]

I would say 7. I'm super stoked about the race, the parcours are insane. But - it's totally imbalanced, even moreso than the Tour, in the sense of favouring climbers and not having the TT balance. And this year's Giro, possibly the best GT I've ever watched in my brief half-decade of being a cycling fan, was made so great by things that happened in the first 10 days (the dirt roads, the huge breakaway, the break winning the sprint in stage 6, the small GC breakaway with cadel getting in a fistfight)... the actual murderous mountains in the last week, which on paper were going to be a butcher's fest, provided very little drama comparatively, other than Basso riding everyone off his wheel on Zoncolan and the brief hope of Arroyo after his amazing descent on the Aprica stage.

The simplistic equation of 'more incredibly hard climbs=spectacle' doesn't always hold true. So I'm not sure if this Giro, which on paper makes me salivate, will really live up to it.

Either way it should be fun.

 

[SpartacusRox]

I would rate it 9/10 as a spectators event in that it will be pretty exciting

I would rate it about 3/10 for marketing strategy. Given the difficulty of the course I think most of the top riders will give it a miss. We saw last year how Cadel, Wiggo and Basso suffered in the TdF after racing the Giro. Similar to Menchov the year before. Most if not all Tour contenders will skip it if they have any aspirations at all of a Tour podium.

If the organisers want to position the race for an Italian winner then they have done a good job but they have also pushed the race futher back from the TdF to a distant second in terms of importance as a GT. Just as we saw riders outside of Spain predominantly using the Vuelta as a warmup for the Worlds or as a bit of a holiday in terms of Andy and Stuey, the major teams will just use the Giro to give their second string teams and younger guys a run.

 

[CatsNK]

Are they trying to kill the riders? That said - it's a "10" for me. Cannot. Wait. Until. May!

 

[Dutchsmurf]

I would rate it about 3/10 for marketing strategy. Given the difficulty of the course I think most of the top riders will give it a miss. We saw last year how Cadel, Wiggo and Basso suffered in the TdF after racing the Giro. Similar to Menchov the year before. Most if not all Tour contenders will skip it if they have any aspirations at all of a Tour podium.

Sounds like good marketing to me. It is the Giro we are talking about here. If those riders don't take the Giro seriously, then they just shouldn't ride it. I think we all rather have some 'lesser' names that want to race instead of some 'big' names just there to prepare for a race a couple months later. If you want to podium in the Tour you have to skip the Giro anyway, even if it was mostly flat.
Basically you are confusing the Giro with that other race in May. Said other race is marketing itself as TdF preparation. The Giro actually is a race.

 

[jsem94]

Sounds like good marketing to me. It is the Giro we are talking about here. If those riders don't take the Giro seriously, then they just shouldn't ride it. I think we all rather have some 'lesser' names that want to race instead of some 'big' names just there to prepare for a race a couple months later. If you want to podium in the Tour you have to skip the Giro anyway, even if it was mostly flat.
Basically you are confusing the Giro with that other race in May. Said other race is marketing itself as TdF preparation. The Giro actually is a race.

Agree 100%. Giro shouldn't just be a tour prep, and Zomegnan is doing what he can to make the race epic and exciting to bring viewers, and he will succeed!

 

[Kender]

if this was the tour course, it would be mind numbingly boring. none of the GC favs would attack for fear of blowing up in later stages. the tour is not a place for risks to be taken.


but this is the giro. any one of the top 10 will believe they can win it and will try to do so at all costs. should make for an exciting race

 

[raddone]

I gave it a 3, because it's too hard. Prepare for a long list of cheaters caught after the Giro.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

if this was the tour course, it would be mind numbingly boring. none of the GC favs would attack for fear of blowing up in later stages. the tour is not a place for risks to be taken.


but this is the giro. any one of the top 10 will believe they can win it and will try to do so at all costs. should make for an exciting race

I dunno, a climb like zoncolan would never be tame, irregardless of the race. It's the fight for survival.

Certainly a better racing mentality though, I agree. I just think some of the tour climbs.. MTF in particular are to easy to really have fireworks (5-6% avg is never gonna be great...)

 

[Ferminal]

I gave it a 3, because it's too hard. Prepare for a long list of cheaters caught after the Giro.

This is getting out of hand.

Riders don't cheat to make cycling easier, they cheat to win.

Cyclists will cheat in a Track Sprint, a 4000m IP or a 7km Prologue, if it gives them a better chance of winning. All these events are "easy" compared to this "oh no look at how hard this Giro is everyone will have to cheat". We know that sprinters cheat, but their role has nothing to do with climbing ridiculous gradients for an hour.

Do you think Andy Schleck and Alberto Contador decide that the Tour course is "easy" so they decide to renege on that final transfusion? Of course not, that final transfusion is going to give them a better chance of winning, irrespective of whether or not they are climbing Arcalis or Zoncolan.

The 2011 Giro will not be insanely harder than 2010. The 2010 Giro is clearly less doped than the Tour in 2010 and previous editions. Why doesn't Ivan Basso dominate the Tour with his superior knowledge of doping in the ridiculously hard Giro?

Cyclists were riding tremendously hard races before blood doping was invented, but that never stopped them turning up with only their fitness and a few stims.

Can we please go to the clinic if we wish to make any further pronouncements on how tougher parcours = more doping.

 

[raddone]

Riders don't cheat to make cycling easier, they cheat to win.

Of course they do. To win. Also they ride a race to win. The harder the race, the harder to win.

 

[Ney the Viking]

Wow, I just read that Pettachi complained that they have to work to ensure sprinting on 5 of the 7 stages that could end in a bunch sprint!!! Well isn't that the whole idea?!? So this for me at least adds another bonus to the giro, they have ensured that that sprinter teams can't go autopilot for 180kms and then do a 2k leadout.

 

[Ferminal]

Wow, I just read that Pettachi complained that they have to work to ensure sprinting on 5 of the 7 stages that could end in a bunch sprint!!! Well isn't that the whole idea?!? So this for me at least adds another bonus to the giro, they have ensured that that sprinter teams can't go autopilot for 180kms and then do a 2k leadout.

Someone should tell him that breakaways have no stages gifted to them and have to work just to win one.

 

[Arnout]

No Giro for Euskaltel I am afraid... Gonzalez de Galdeano says they don't have the team depth for it and unless they are forced to participate by the authorities they will not take part in it.

 

[nvpacchi]

No Giro for Euskaltel I am afraid... Gonzalez de Galdeano says they don't have the team depth for it and unless they are forced to participate by the authorities they will not take part in it.

Worst news i've heard in awhile .

If Cofidis can pull off 3 GTs in a year, then I feel any team could

 

[jsem94]

Crap, I woulda wanted to see euskaltel mountain goats in giro

 

[Matthijs]

Wow, this Giro is very interesting because it is an experiment. Maybe crazy but still at least they try something new...

Strong points:
+enough sprint stages (maybe the sprintteams have to work, but I don't think that is a problem, all sprintstages are in the first half)
+a lot of spectacular mountain-stages
+short TTT, small differences does not mess up the whole GC, but classic discipline and good to watch

weak
-only 32km flat ITT

I don't think all these MTF are so much problem. A few forum contributers pointed 3 stages out with a not-so-long MTF which reminds me a lot of some editions of the Vuelta. In those stage Valverde, Sammy sanchez and others came in with 5-10 climbers and sprinted for the win.
I'd like to see Nibali, Scarponi, Pozzivivo, Rico, Pellizotti, Cunego not being able to escape 3km before and sprint! The large differences for the Maglia Rosa will be made on the 3-4 hardest mountains. In the worst case the stages are a bit boring for the GC, but therefore there will allways be a breakaway. In that case I don't see that much difference with a normal GT intermediate stage.

 

[ferryman]

My podium prediction is Ricco, Scarponi, Vino Nuff said

 

[dsut4392]

What does Cuddle say in this video?

Don't touch me. Step on my dog and I'll cut off your head. Don't TOUCH me. I would have won if...

But seriously, there's a bit of banter about how Montalcino this year was one of the most beautiful victories in his career (interviewer said this), how his background in MTB maybe helped him out a bit with the constantly changing conditions, cold, rain, poor visibility, how he was able to conserve a bit of energy and go for the win. I can't make out much of the rest, something about the dirt road of colle delle finestre 2011 being very hard/ similar to the MTT this year but definitely being spectacular.
Cadel's fluency in Italian almost makes it harder for a barely conversant Italian speaker to understand when combined with his shocking Aussie accent. I know enough Spanish/German/French to understand fluent Italian spoken by an Italian OK, or broken Italian spoken by an Anglo OK, but Italian spoken at a rate of knots with words slurred together in an Aussie accent - not so much. Still, while my Italian accent is much nicer than his, I don't speak half as well

 

[IlCobraFan]

The route is fantastic and very hard (10 out of 10) but given the low Italian TV ratings on the flat stages last year, did Zomegnan really have a choice?

Harder route means lack of international stars (California here we come...). And a race with lack of big names doesn't attract average fan of cycling and the Giro needs to, in order to grow into a bigger event worldwide.

 

[The Hitch]

Don't touch me. Step on my dog and I'll cut off your head. Don't TOUCH me. I would have won if...

But seriously, there's a bit of banter about how Montalcino this year was one of the most beautiful victories in his career (interviewer said this), how his background in MTB maybe helped him out a bit with the constantly changing conditions, cold, rain, poor visibility, how he was able to conserve a bit of energy and go for the win. I can't make out much of the rest, something about the dirt road of colle delle finestre 2011 being very hard/ similar to the MTT this year but definitely being spectacular.
Cadel's fluency in Italian almost makes it harder for a barely conversant Italian speaker to understand when combined with his shocking Aussie accent. I know enough Spanish/German/French to understand fluent Italian spoken by an Italian OK, or broken Italian spoken by an Anglo OK, but Italian spoken at a rate of knots with words slurred together in an Aussie accent - not so much. Still, while my Italian accent is much nicer than his, I don't speak half as well

thanks

The route is fantastic and very hard (10 out of 10) but given the low Italian TV ratings on the flat stages last year, did Zomegnan really have a choice?

Harder route means lack of international stars (California here we come...). And a race with lack of big names doesn't attract average fan of cycling and the Giro needs to, in order to grow into a bigger event worldwide.

Last year only 3 of the Tour top 10 did california, so no Cali isnt going to get all the TDF contenders. Maybe 1 or 2.
Its becoming annoying to read some people on this forum build it up as such.

And from those 3 "international stars" who did the Cali and top 10d the tour, Ryder Hejsdal and Chris Horner are NOWHERE NEAR as big as Nibali, Ricco, Scarponi, Kreuziger, Sella.

Add 1 or 2 other top guys who havent announced what they want to do, to the Giro line up and you have a 10 times better line up than the TOC and a better course than the Tour. More than good enough for cycling fans.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

California gets skipped by lot of tour contenders because end of may they often have their height training camps in Spain/Italy/Switzerland

 

[IlCobraFan]

Last year only 3 of the Tour top 10 did california, so no Cali isnt going to get all the TDF contenders. Maybe 1 or 2.
Its becoming annoying to read some people on this forum build it up as such.

And from those 3 "international stars" who did the Cali and top 10d the tour, Ryder Hejsdal and Chris Horner are NOWHERE NEAR as big as Nibali, Ricco, Scarponi, Kreuziger, Sella.

Add 1 or 2 other top guys who havent announced what they want to do, to the Giro line up and you have a 10 times better line up than the TOC and a better course than the Tour. More than good enough for cycling fans.

When I write "international stars", I think about Cancellara, Boonen, Armstrong and Cavendish and the Schlecks etc.

The casual fans are the majority of all fans (unfortunately), and they need the stars to stay interested. If Giro d'Italia maybe in the future reduced its length or distance so Tour riders could ride it without risking their Tour chances, things might look different.

Yes, Giro d'Italia THE race for us real cycling fans. We are the minority though.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Semantic issue here: there are TWO factors here, both worded the same.

Interpretation 1:

The casual fans are the majority of all fans (unfortunately), and they need the stars to stay interested.

The casual fans are the ones that need the stars, and if they have the stars, they stay interested.

Interpretation 2:

The casual fans are the majority of all fans (unfortunately), and they need the stars to stay interested.

The casual fans watch, but they need the stars to be interested in the race otherwise they will swiftly get bored.

The casual fans may be suckered in by the presence of stars, but they will swiftly turn away again if they detect that the stars are just collecting a paycheck or phoning it in. You credit the casual fans with very little intelligence and suggest that they cannot be enticed by exciting racing, only by the presence of big draw names, but that they will watch those big draw names even if it's tedious as all hell. Let us also consider a few other things:
- because of the timezone differences, it is entirely feasible for an audience to watch both races; they are not mutually exclusive.
- the Giro is, first and foremost, an Italian race. It is Italian companies that stump up the money for it. It was rather provincial at times in the last two decades, but it didn't decrease in value. And as far as Italy is concerned, who cares if Cancellara, Boonen and Cavendish are in California? It's the GIRO! All their big names are there, and the history and status of the race is that high in Italy and Europe that they will continue to draw big names and sponsorship money.
- the Giro does not see itself as subservient to or less than the Tour, nor does Italy as a whole see their race this way. It does not see itself as a Tour warmup race, so why should it want Tour riders to come without risking their Tour chances? As far as they're concerned, their race is as important, so it should be as hard - if not harder.
- the Giro has enough fans in Europe and abroad that it is in the driving seat here. It is established, it has a rabid local following, and it is able to afford to run at its present level. The coverage is more professional than California, the scenery is more attractive, the racing is better, and they have enough of a fanbase to maintain it. Not everything is about chasing the dollar.

The Giro is not under any threat because of California, any more than it was under any threat because of Catalunya (which is aeons old and was ProTour, therefore took more big teams than California does). The Cancellaras, Schlecks and Boonens of this world wouldn't ride the Giro anyway, immediately after their primary goals (spring classics) and before they build up to their second primary goals (the Tour in most cases).

The Giro isn't "losing stars" to California. Is a top 10 of Basso, Arroyo, Nibali, Scarponi, Evans, Vinokourov, Porte, Sastre, Pinotti, Kiserlovski really a weaker top 10 than a top 10 of Menchov, di Luca, Pellizotti, Sastre, Basso, Leipheimer, Garzelli, Rogers, Valjavec and Bruseghin? Bearing in mind that the 2010 Giro also saw names with GT top 10s like Tondó, Garzelli, Pozzovivo, Bruseghin and Vande Velde drop out due to injury?

No, California does little more than fill a hole in the calendar for a few big names who would normally be resting at the time or maybe doing a relatively minor race like the Bayern Rundfahrt. The Giro is not under threat from California in any way, shape or form, and will not be unless things change majorly.