Rate the Giro 2018 route

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How do you rate the Giro'd Italia 2018 route?

  • 1

    Votes: 1 2.3%
  • 2

    Votes: 1 2.3%
  • 3

    Votes: 3 6.8%
  • 4

    Votes: 7 15.9%
  • 5

    Votes: 5 11.4%
  • 6

    Votes: 10 22.7%
  • 7

    Votes: 11 25.0%
  • 8

    Votes: 4 9.1%
  • 9

    Votes: 1 2.3%
  • 10

    Votes: 1 2.3%

  • Total voters
    44
  • Poll closed .
hazaran said:
Tonton said:
Etna did nothing this year, why would anything happen next year? The week-end showdown at the Blockhaus was cool back in May, its replacement (combination of stage 8-9) is lame. So we finish week one with ten guys less than a minute from the pink jersey. What organizers want.

Someone said they are taking a different harder approach to Etna that should also be shielded from the wind. I don't believe it, but there it is.
I know it's not the same approach to the summit, but at this stage in the race, no one will lit the road on fire. The ____/ thing only works on a Friday IMO. Then design a hilly Saturday with late sneak attack possible in the end, then a killer Sunday. I don't think that any contender will go all out. It will still be a "don't screw up", "watch how they look" type of stage. The Etna is an elephant, it will deliver a mice...again.
 
6/10.

+++ The Sappada stage is better than I feared, and one of the better designed stages in this Giro.
++ Finestre is always interestering.
+ Etna is good first mountain stage.
+ Monte Zoncolan

- No proper Dolomite stage
-- No long and tough medium mountain stages
--- The Jaffrau and Cervinia is probably very dependent on the GC at the moment if there are to be entertaining stages.
------ 5 MTFs where it's unlikely with action before the last climb.

The worst aspect is the lack of stages that encouarge attacks from further out than the last 5-7 kms. On Zoncolan this is unavoidable, and Etna is in historical context a good first mountain stage, but the rest of the mountain stages are fairly disappointing. Montevergine and Pratonevoso is on par with Oropa as the last MTFs I want to see in the Giro. And i fear little will happen between Finestre and the last few kms of Jafferau.

The route needs something to "spice it up". It could have been a sterrato stage, a tough Dolomite stage or a long medium mountain stage in the Apenninnes. Or more good combos of climbs like Mortirolo/Aprica, San Pellegrino in Alpe/Abetone, etc.
 
Apr 15, 2013
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Tonton said:
hazaran said:
Tonton said:
Etna did nothing this year, why would anything happen next year? The week-end showdown at the Blockhaus was cool back in May, its replacement (combination of stage 8-9) is lame. So we finish week one with ten guys less than a minute from the pink jersey. What organizers want.

Someone said they are taking a different harder approach to Etna that should also be shielded from the wind. I don't believe it, but there it is.
I know it's not the same approach to the summit, but at this stage in the race, no one will lit the road on fire. The ____/ thing only works on a Friday IMO. Then design a hilly Saturday with late sneak attack possible in the end, then a killer Sunday. I don't think that any contender will go all out. It will still be a "don't screw up", "watch how they look" type of stage. The Etna is an elephant, it will deliver a mice...again.

Yep. The Etna in this type of configuration sucks, or rather why not, but do not expect much except if all teammates of leaders happen to be sick and only the big guys are left, which won't happen.
 
hazaran said:
Tonton said:
Etna did nothing this year, why would anything happen next year? The week-end showdown at the Blockhaus was cool back in May, its replacement (combination of stage 8-9) is lame. So we finish week one with ten guys less than a minute from the pink jersey. What organizers want.

Someone said they are taking a different harder approach to Etna that should also be shielded from the wind. I don't believe it, but there it is.

It is a totally different route than last year, and actually never used before.
Not a meter in common with the 2017 and 2009 routes up the mountain.

Nibali said he has never gone up that way, even during training rides.

I think it's a very narrow secondary road, nothing like we've seen before. They said it should have a 4km section over 8%, which makes a huge difference with what we saw last year, when the climb was shallower in average, with just a few hundred meters steep ramps over 10%.

On Google maps: https://goo.gl/maps/WUksNHukmMG2

Street view of the section at the top... the only one available, probably because the lower section was not accessible by a normal car when they took the images https://goo.gl/maps/CaHVue55nvS2

NOTE: the route on the map is my guess, nothing official. But it's the only way up to the Observatory on that side of the mountain, so I'm pretty confident it's the right one.

More details, This is where the proper climb might start, junction and then right up: https://goo.gl/maps/Ar2pVpYfriy
 
Giro2018_gen_alt-630x256.jpg


for the lazy.
 
Positives: Zoncolan, Finestre 70 km from the finish, nice prologue, the Sappada stage, Campo Imperatore (not the climb per se, but I love the scenery up there).

Negatives: MTF overkill, very few hills, dull transitional stages, short ITT, no descent finishes.

Overall, it looks like a Giro lacking an identity, or even a plan. It's more a series of unrelated stages that I really can't get excited about.

5/10. 2015 seems so distant :(
 
Many stages to celebrate Unipublic and Guillen is pathetic.
Stages to Sappada, Jafferau and Cervinia are good but Moncenisio should have been in before Finestre so that they arrive to the bottom of Finestre with some tiredness. Lys may not be enough.
 
Better then last year but I miss classic dolomitic stage and classic apeninic hard finish as blockhaus or pretty hard stage in Toscana but Zoncolan + Finestre should make some damage
7/10 (maybe should be 6+) for me definitelly better then tour
 
Jan 24, 2012
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7 as a GT.
5 as a Giro.

Another 20km of ITT and one hard mountain stage ending in a descent and I'd be happier.

Just hope Froome/Sky ***** don't ruin my favorite race. Though sometimes it's more the other riders being too pussy.

Also, it'd be nice to see the Zoncolan used before an easier climb. Maybe Zoncolan-Valcalda as a combo.
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Re:

Libertine Seguros said:
1: a difficult, undulating ITT to start the race! Long enough to open up some gaps but not long enough to eliminate anybody big-time, not a TTT (the opening ITT has been being phased out, disappointingly, in recent years). The scenery should be great. The politics are the only downside to this, but they are a significant down-side. Leaving them aside and judging purely on cycling perspectives though, this is great.
2: oh yea, another flaw for stage 1: it happens on a Friday. Because just like every year in the Giro, we get to have two garbage stages on the first weekend, because God forbid we miss an all-action sprint stage.
3: stop me, oh, oh oh, stop me, stop me if you think that you've heard this one before...
4: after a rest day, because of course the péloton is EXHAUSTED after two pan flat POS stages and a prologue, we're in Sicily. This could be interesting, in that it's a sustained but low gradient final ramp. I suspect something like the Agrigento stage in 2008 is what to expect but it's a little bit tougher than that.
5: the scale makes this look like a much more interesting stage than it actually is. Most of the climbing is at 3-4%.
6: a long, grinding climb to make that first contenders-from-the-pretenders stage. Can't fault this too much, Unipuerto is OK when you're in the middle of week 1 and the final climb is 30km long.
7: the first of about 4 attempts to clone the Pozzato stage from the 2010 race I think. That climb is 4km at 3,5%.
8: Montevergine from the usual side is a bit, well, pointless when you've already HAD your opening salvos MTF, since that's the only context in which Montevergine really works. Bart de Clercq to come back?
9: the third mountain stage, the third mountain stage where the final climb is a grinder, and the only climb that will be decisive. Not sure about this development. Getting a bit samey and uninspiring. I also assume this is this year's annual Pantani veneration as if he's the only great Italian champion they ever had. He now gets more honour bestowed upon him by the race than Coppi and Bartali combined. I'm bored now.
10: Very bizarre stage. Could potentially be interesting. Probably won't.
11: Tirreno-Adriatico type finish. Should be a nice last few minutes, but that's all.
12: Infinitely worse than the 2015 stage, one more lap might have made it better but it's basically another 2010 Pozzato hope I think.
13: Likewise, another tribute to an old Worlds course in an otherwise flat stage. Kudos to them for not playing lazy with the Po valley though, and they have actually tried to keep these stages interesting. They will probably go to sprints but they've at least tried to incentivize stagehunters to give it a go and the sprinters will be made to work for their chance to contest the win. I will definitely not criticise them too heavily for that.
14: Fairly typical Zonc stage - no problems here, after all it doesn't really matter what you put before the Zoncolan, unless they go for broke on Crostis it will be an all-for-the-final-climb stage, but this is the fourth mountain stage and the fourth where only the final climb will matter. At least this time Mick freaking Rogers won't win. I'm more interested in what the Giro Rosa does with the climb to be honest, now they've announced it.
15: I quite like this, a nice final 40km. Would have liked it more if they went over the summit and finished at Forni Avoltri of course - but I haven't got round to putting that stage in the Nordic Series in the Race Design Thread yet. Best stage so far, and also it's not so tough that it will scare people earlier, not that that ought to matter too much on the Zoncolan. A shame that this is the biggest Dolomite stage, i.e. most of the big Dolomite mountains are missing, but it's a decent stage in its own right.
16: If you're only going to have one decent length ITT it must be at least close to 50k. Not enough. At least it's mostly pretty flat to counterbalance the undulations in the Jerusalem TT.
17: lol at the GPM. Nothing more to say about this.
18: Unipuerto to Prato Nevoso? Christ. That's a fifth stage where nothing will happen prior to the final mountain. And Prato Nevoso really isn't all that difficult to open up gaps on its own, especially when riders are going to be wary of exhausting themselves for the two stages to come. Is this part of some game, to honour ill-gotten victories by the most unlikable Australians in the sport?
19: This I'm going to be interested to see. We've got used to the drill with Finestre, but having it 70km from the finish will be interesting because unlike Sestriere from the east, Jafferau is a tough enough climb in its own right to merit respect and not drilling it from the Finestre; at the same time, Finestre is so hard that it will likely shred the bunch anyway; while Jafferau is steep it's only about 7km long, so if there are decent timegaps, it becomes a concern whether there's enough time to be had on that one climb. The issue is that Sestriere comes in the middle and isn't so tough, so that may dissuade people from attacking. But the method to the madness from earlier comes into it too as the Finestre is the Cima Coppi which people will fight for. I only wish they included Moncenisio first.
20: Col Tze Core in the Giro. At last. Off of a cold open, I wish they'd use the other side of Saint-Panthaléon and give us something akin to the Torgnon stage from the Giro della Valle d'Aosta a few years ago, but that would make the loop longer if Cervinia is where the finish has to be. Cervinia itself isn't an especially interesting climb, but Tze Core has that steep second half that could catch people unawares and, given that it's the last GC-relevant stage, the riders may need to generate time on this stage in which case waiting until Cervinia is not a winning strategy.
21: not even a short ITT epilogue like 2009? For shame.

Overall, this is a vast improvement on last year's epic disappointment of a Giro route. There are some trends I'm concerned about - a large number of mountain stages that are flat for the first half, and a large number that are arranged in such a way that only the final climb can be decisive or straight up Unipuerto. There's not one significant stage that ends on a descent, and the first weekend is two flat stages yet again, a complete waste of your, mine and everybody's time. The ITT mileage is far too little - if they'd had the initial TT in Jerusalem, cloned the 2009 TT in Rome and then made the stage 16 test 15-20km longer I'd have been happy with that. There are nice climbs being brought out of mothballs, most notably Tze Core of course, and they've done their best to keep most of the flat stages interesting by dangling carrots to stagehunters. At the same time, there's not one single mountain stage that has true 'wow' factor and is the obvious, unquestioned queen stage, which I assume is what the Bardonecchia stage is meant to be; it doesn't have the same level of instant anticipation as Rifugio Gardeccia '11, Cortina d'Ampezzo '12 or Bormio '17. And it's now seven straight Giri without the Fedaia, which is ridiculous. Montevergine is more than a bit superfluous with being flanked by the Etna and Gran Sasso stages, and the politics around the Jerusalem start will not stop being controversial at any time soon. And the last stage is an unmitigated disaster if this becomes a 'thing' the way the rather uninspiring Madrid circuit has in the aim at mimicking the Champs Elysées finish in the Tour. But the biggest plus is, after last year's idiocy with things like Oropa, there's not one gimmicky super short mountain stage where they expect the racing to automatically be good because the stage is short, because it turns out if you design it badly, it won't be good, and a well designed normal length mountain stage has just as much chance of producing good action as a well designed short mountain stage.


Very nice classic LS write up. entertaining, informational and all.

Back in the old days we used to get this kind of a mood for the TDF and more upbeat for the Giro. But at this stage, it is warranted. the giro has sucked, a lot pretty much since that epic edition referenced a few times above.

I like the design of the Finnestre- Sestrieres stage. Zoncolan still is, in my opinion, the hardest climb in GT cycling (with the aforementioned Finnestre also on the list). But after some of those Giro editions (especially 2012 where some very well designed stages were more boring than sprint stages) i dont feel optimistic.
 
Re:

Libertine Seguros said:
2: oh yea, another flaw for stage 1: it happens on a Friday. Because just like every year in the Giro, we get to have two garbage stages on the first weekend, because God forbid we miss an all-action sprint stage.
3: stop me, oh, oh oh, stop me, stop me if you think that you've heard this one before...
Maybe yes, maybe no. I don't know, how it will be with the wind, as both stages (3rd almost exclusively) are in a desert.

Libertine Seguros said:
4: after a rest day, because of course the péloton is EXHAUSTED after two pan flat POS stages and a prologue, we're in Sicily. This could be interesting, in that it's a sustained but low gradient final ramp. I suspect something like the Agrigento stage in 2008 is what to expect but it's a little bit tougher than that.
Israel is quite far away from Italy. I don't know, how it is with planes, but starting early noon just after an overnight flight (even, if there is such) might be just impossible. I guess that's why the first stage is on Friday - to have 21 stages while having room for an extra rest day.

Libertine Seguros said:
5: the scale makes this look like a much more interesting stage than it actually is. Most of the climbing is at 3-4%.
6: a long, grinding climb to make that first contenders-from-the-pretenders stage. Can't fault this too much, Unipuerto is OK when you're in the middle of week 1 and the final climb is 30km long.
I agree that the Sicilian stages look more meneacing than they are. I actually don't like this Etna approach, as it involves quite narrow roads, while not much in % department. I'm worried there might be higher probability of crashes.[/quote]
It's actually nice to see some new Sicilian places i've never heard. but i think Sicily has much more sights to offer, while these stages go often in nomansland.

Libertine Seguros said:
7: the first of about 4 attempts to clone the Pozzato stage from the 2010 race I think. That climb is 4km at 3,5%.
8: Montevergine from the usual side is a bit, well, pointless when you've already HAD your opening salvos MTF, since that's the only context in which Montevergine really works. Bart de Clercq to come back?
I've heard there is another side of this "climb", but there's barely any road left? Besides, even this other side is nothing special, unless it's this 11km at 9% (i think) Monte Acerone(?), but that one needs resurfacing.[/quote]

Libertine Seguros said:
9: the third mountain stage, the third mountain stage where the final climb is a grinder, and the only climb that will be decisive. Not sure about this development. Getting a bit samey and uninspiring. I also assume this is this year's annual Pantani veneration as if he's the only great Italian champion they ever had. He now gets more honour bestowed upon him by the race than Coppi and Bartali combined. I'm bored now.
I never found Campo Imeratore to be anything special besides it's altitude. The views can be great, but it's mostly a green desert.

Libertine Seguros said:
10: Very bizarre stage. Could potentially be interesting. Probably won't.
It's just a sprint stage, that's all.

Libertine Seguros said:
14: Fairly typical Zonc stage - no problems here, after all it doesn't really matter what you put before the Zoncolan, unless they go for broke on Crostis it will be an all-for-the-final-climb stage, but this is the fourth mountain stage and the fourth where only the final climb will matter. At least this time Mick freaking Rogers won't win. I'm more interested in what the Giro Rosa does with the climb to be honest, now they've announced it.
15: I quite like this, a nice final 40km. Would have liked it more if they went over the summit and finished at Forni Avoltri of course - but I haven't got round to putting that stage in the Nordic Series in the Race Design Thread yet. Best stage so far, and also it's not so tough that it will scare people earlier, not that that ought to matter too much on the Zoncolan. A shame that this is the biggest Dolomite stage, i.e. most of the big Dolomite mountains are missing, but it's a decent stage in its own right.
I'm probably the only person on this forum, who doesn't care about Dolomites or their climbs. There's more than enough good climbs in Italy to not miss them. I also think that not much will hapen on this stage. Sant'Antonio and the lower of Forcella Zovo are okay, but still over 15km from the finish, which includes a grind to Sappada. it will be interesting to watch, but i don't really find it thrilling.

Libertine Seguros said:
16: If you're only going to have one decent length ITT it must be at least close to 50k. Not enough. At least it's mostly pretty flat to counterbalance the undulations in the Jerusalem TT.
17: lol at the GPM. Nothing more to say about this.
Yep, there should be 3 GPM's on stage 17. Considering the surrounding, this stage is abysmal. Either sprint or breakaway.

Libertine Seguros said:
18: Unipuerto to Prato Nevoso? Christ. That's a fifth stage where nothing will happen prior to the final mountain. And Prato Nevoso really isn't all that difficult to open up gaps on its own, especially when riders are going to be wary of exhausting themselves for the two stages to come. Is this part of some game, to honour ill-gotten victories by the most unlikable Australians in the sport?
Have the same feelings on this one.

Libertine Seguros said:
19: This I'm going to be interested to see. We've got used to the drill with Finestre, but having it 70km from the finish will be interesting because unlike Sestriere from the east, Jafferau is a tough enough climb in its own right to merit respect and not drilling it from the Finestre; at the same time, Finestre is so hard that it will likely shred the bunch anyway; while Jafferau is steep it's only about 7km long, so if there are decent timegaps, it becomes a concern whether there's enough time to be had on that one climb. The issue is that Sestriere comes in the middle and isn't so tough, so that may dissuade people from attacking. But the method to the madness from earlier comes into it too as the Finestre is the Cima Coppi which people will fight for. I only wish they included Moncenisio first.
Basically the same with this one. Finestre is a monster, and it is a good place to try for an ambush, even if there is Cervinia next day. I feel this should have been the last stage though. I guess with this one it partially will be shown, if Finestre with Pinerolo finish deserves the hype.

Libertine Seguros said:
20: Col Tze Core in the Giro. At last. Off of a cold open, I wish they'd use the other side of Saint-Panthaléon and give us something akin to the Torgnon stage from the Giro della Valle d'Aosta a few years ago, but that would make the loop longer if Cervinia is where the finish has to be. Cervinia itself isn't an especially interesting climb, but Tze Core has that steep second half that could catch people unawares and, given that it's the last GC-relevant stage, the riders may need to generate time on this stage in which case waiting until Cervinia is not a winning strategy.
You are really overrating Tzecore. It's a good climb, but nothing special. The steep part will catch nobody, as it last only 2-3km. If it was the last climb or next-to-last, then maybe a possible Peyra Taillade scenario could be possible. Still, Tzecore and Saint-Panthaleon should be enough to guarantee okay gaps on Cervinia. However, i'm afraid longer moves will have difficult task of holding on, as Cervinia is no Aprica. It's a 7% grinder, which might be a bit too much to handle. it's a good mountain stage, but considering it's the last road stage i feel dissapointed.

Libertine Seguros said:
21: not even a short ITT epilogue like 2009? For shame.
Same here. If you cannot use the cobbled Via Appia, then don't even try for a regular stage.

Sorry, for using your post, but i found it the easiest way for me to rate the route. I find it similar with 2017 - nothing special. I would even argue, that the Tour de France route can compete with this one, even with its fundamental flaws.
 
Re:

Arredondo said:
Is it just me, but i can't see a lot of exciting medium mountain or hilly stages?
Can see precisely 1, which is dreadful for the Giro. It is even more dreadful cause the one single medium mountain stage replaces is in the Dolomites stage, which you'd hope would be the stage for a big, well designed mountain stage.

This Giro in a nutshel

- Zoncolan
- Sappada med mountain stage
- Finestre somewhere at 70km from the finish
- 5 forgettable and interchangable grinding climbs that are all 'bout dat MTF.

I thought we had standards for the Giro, but that seems a long time ago.

I am actually happy the ITT isn't too long, cause if it would be 50km we could already write down the winner even more than now.

What's the time difference between Israel and Italy?