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Rate the Vuelta Route

Page 2 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.

How do you rate the route of the Vuelta 2016 on a scale of 1-10?

  • Below 0

    Votes: 5 9.4%
  • 0

    Votes: 1 1.9%
  • 1

    Votes: 7 13.2%
  • 2

    Votes: 11 20.8%
  • 3

    Votes: 6 11.3%
  • 4

    Votes: 10 18.9%
  • 5

    Votes: 3 5.7%
  • More than 5, I really do hate cycling

    Votes: 10 18.9%

  • Total voters
    53
I'm sick and tired to read about "balanced" GTs. There are as many definitions of "balanced" as there are observers. The only thing that matters IMO is to feature the country for what it is, stay true to what defines the said country. TdS should be climber-friendly, et caetera. And do the utmost to cover the host country's map, not just half of it, or less. I agree with the comments about the stage in France: I'm consistent with my beliefs expressed in other threads.

So in a nutshell, this Vuelta design is crap. I haven't voted yet, but it's going to be 1 or 2. Maybe 3, because a few stages are cool.

My $0.02 FWIW...
 
Tonton said:
I'm sick and tired to read about "balanced" GTs. There are as many definitions of "balanced" as there are observers. The only thing that matters IMO is to feature the country for what it is, stay true to what defines the said country. TdS should be climber-friendly, et caetera. And do the utmost to cover the host country's map, not just half of it, or less. I agree with the comments about the stage in France: I'm consistent with my beliefs expressed in other threads.

So in a nutshell, this Vuelta design is crap. I haven't voted yet, but it's going to be 1 or 2. Maybe 3, because a few stages are cool.

My $0.02 FWIW...
Of course, different races have their different characteristics; a pure balance that will suit all races is not a possibility, but you will find certain patterns emerge. Two good length ITTs, for example, are usually needed to produce a wide enough range of potential victors to create worthwhile racing on the mountain stages - however the nature of those stages vary.

Spain does not have many climbs of the same altitude and length as those seen in the Alps in the Tour or Giro; it does, however, have a very broad range of mid-length and steep climbs. Another factor is that Spain does not have the same number of ski resorts to pay for stages, and the federal nature of the country means that we often see a region take on a large amount of the race (seven Andalucían stages last year, six Galician this year). The Giro has traditionally been more of a climber's race than the Tour, primarily as the country of Italy is, with the exception of the Po floodplain, a very mountainous country, whereas large parts of France do not have that; France also has far fewer climbs of the steepness often seen in the Giro or Vuelta, but can compensate with some extremely long ascents and also the simple fact that, being the Tour de France, the importance of the race means that typically the field is strongest and the pace of the péloton in general is faster. There are small hills and low mountains over large swathes of Spain so a lot of intermediate stages is fine, it's the number of finishes on hilltops and mountaintops with no TT mileage to counter that hurts first, and secondly the number of stages where they finish on hilltops and mountaintops after avoiding many obstacles on the way there that could have created a stage that allows people to race from further out.

What are the best stages in the race? Most people seem happiest at the Basque stages - stage 13 to Urdax in particular. Why? Because they go through an area of the country it would almost be harder to NOT have a range of low but steep, hard to control hills. It can be seen in smaller races; the Tour de Suisse should always be mountainous - just look at a relief map of Switzerland and note that 2009 was a dreadful joke still mocked to this day. The Vuelta al País Vasco is all about steep mid-length climbs and offers next to nothing to the sprinter - as finding flat enough terrain there to present a sprinter-biased race would take some serious effort. And so on. Races should always be true to the territory they occupy... but the Vuelta seems to be forming an identity around the MISUSE of that.
 
@LS, I understand the geography of the GT countries, as well as the politics/financing aspects that contribute to course designs. And I agree with most of everything you wrote, including wrt a healthy lengh of ITT as an equalizer. And Valv.Piti makes a great point as it relates to the Vuelta/OG dilemma that Guillen was facing.

The TTT day one is idiotic, and for the rest, LS' stage by stage description is spot on. I agree that the ITT is too short, not sure that it is too late. Pretty much anyone on the design thread can slap such a design in a couple of hours. Someone got paid for THIS? Gotta be kidding me. It's a three-week Paris-Nice! :mad:

And neglecting so much of Spain is borderline criminal.

I thought I'd never say that on a given year, it is the TdF that has the best design. That's not saying much...
 
Gigs_98 said:
DFA123 said:
Põhja Konn said:
There doesn't appear to be any wider plan behind the layout of this Vuelta route other than to concentrate the possible action on each stage to the very end of them. Basically the Vuelta consists of a TTT, an ITT and 19 sprint stages (sprints on flat, sprints up the last hill and sprints up the last mountain).

Just replacing the opening TTT with an ITT of same length alone would alter the racing and the way teams and riders approach to the entire Vuelta. It would erase unjustice done to GC riders with weak(er) TTT teams and give more balance to the whole route.

The 4 points I gave already looks overtly generous. Though at least expectations are very low, so there is unlikely to be unpleasant surprises when it comes to actual racing.

I think the plan is to make the GC as open as possible. Most GC's nowadays are massively loaded in favour of pure climbers - with numerous opportunities to take several minutes on multiple mountain stages and little chance to get time back on TT's or on shorter uphill finishes.

This Vuelta could be won by a climbing specialist, a time trial specialist, or a murito specialist - as long as they can make the most of their specialism and limit their losses in the other parts. Adding another ITT may make it even more open, but because there is limited scope to gain big time in the mountains - just one ITT can still be a significant factor.
You might be right but even if you are it would still be a very bad idea. There aren't enough ITT kilometers to give TT specialists a good chance, and try to give murito specialists a good chance to win a gt is simply stupid. Thats like saying you give huge time bonuses for bunch sprints so a pure sprinter can also win a gt. That would make the tour more balance because it gives more riders the chance to win. However it would also make the race extremely boring because instead of hourlong fights for the leaders jersey we would have a ten seconds long sprint.

Completely agree. Its just a possibility that was their thinking behind designing such a route. Of course, it could also be that they just want to make a route that gives Purito and Valverde the chance to shine in a lot of stages and also challenge overall.
 
Aug 21, 2015
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I was thinking of being nice and giving it a 3 but I had to take a step back and think what I thought gave this route that edge. Almost half the race stages end in an uphill finish, about half the country is explored, and the most difficult stage takes place mostly outside of Spain. On top of that, there is no real opportunity for long range attacks to make these races exciting outside the final climb.
 
Re:

52520Andrew said:
I was thinking of being nice and giving it a 3 but I had to take a step back and think what I thought gave this route that edge. Almost half the race stages end in an uphill finish, about half the country is explored, and the most difficult stage takes place mostly outside of Spain. On top of that, there is no real opportunity for long range attacks to make these races exciting outside the final climb.
One thing the route has going for it, is that they will be spending a lot of time in the regions with the worst weather. There's a decent chance of a couple of very wet and windy stages which could make even an easyish stage interesting. I guess for the riders that is also better than having many stages in Andalucia at around 40 degrees, when no-one could attack even if they wanted to - like we had in the last few editions.
 
Looks really bad. It is depressing to see all these single-climb MTFs. Are there any stages for sprinters? All these bumps at the end of flat or medium mountain looks depressing. Is it so difficult to make 4-5 stages with flat final 40-50km?
 
the route looks quite decent. i prefer eventful single-climb mountain top finishes rather than multi-mountain stages where riders would apprehensively stare at each other before the final 1-2 kms. 8! no worry about myself being absolutely incompetent in cycling.
 
Re:

dacooley said:
the route looks quite decent. i prefer eventful single-climb mountain top finishes rather than multi-mountain stages where riders would apprehensively stare at each other before the final 1-2 kms. 8! no worry about myself being absolutely incompetent in cycling.

I kinda agree, if its one thing thats depressing its those multi mountain-stages that end up being dull affairs a few kilometres of sprints like the whole Giro 2012. The expectatations contrary to what actually happens usually creates the most disappointing stages
 
Re: Re:

Valv.Piti said:
dacooley said:
the route looks quite decent. i prefer eventful single-climb mountain top finishes rather than multi-mountain stages where riders would apprehensively stare at each other before the final 1-2 kms. 8! no worry about myself being absolutely incompetent in cycling.

I kinda agree, if its one thing thats depressing its those multi mountain-stages that end up being dull affairs a few kilometres of sprints like the whole Giro 2012. The expectatations contrary to what actually happens usually creates the most disappointing stages

Well, at least with the multi mountain stages there's the possibility of good racing before the last kilometres. With a _________/ profile, it's 100% guaranteed to be a glorified bunch sprint.
 
Re: Re:

Squire said:
Valv.Piti said:
dacooley said:
the route looks quite decent. i prefer eventful single-climb mountain top finishes rather than multi-mountain stages where riders would apprehensively stare at each other before the final 1-2 kms. 8! no worry about myself being absolutely incompetent in cycling.

I kinda agree, if its one thing thats depressing its those multi mountain-stages that end up being dull affairs a few kilometres of sprints like the whole Giro 2012. The expectatations contrary to what actually happens usually creates the most disappointing stages

Well, at least with the multi mountain stages there's the possibility of good racing before the last kilometres. With a _________/ profile, it's 100% guaranteed to be a glorified bunch sprint.
verbier, farrapona, terminillo, psm... we have a number of prominent single-mountain stages. admittedly, many climbs in a profile give a hope that some of great importance may occure but it more often remains a false hope.
 
Apr 15, 2013
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Põhja Konn said:
There doesn't appear to be any wider plan behind the layout of this Vuelta route other than to concentrate the possible action on each stage to the very end of them. Basically the Vuelta consists of a TTT, an ITT and 19 sprint stages (sprints on flat, sprints up the last hill and sprints up the last mountain).

Just replacing the opening TTT with an ITT of same length alone would alter the racing and the way teams and riders approach to the entire Vuelta. It would erase unjustice done to GC riders with weak(er) TTT teams and give more balance to the whole route.

The 4 points I gave already looks overtly generous. Though at least expectations are very low, so there is unlikely to be unpleasant surprises when it comes to actual racing.

Basically my thoughts. Gave it a 4 too. Stages 13 and 14 are good in absolute, the rest is just crapola.
 
@Libertine_Seguros. Is there any chance of wind action in one of those Unipublic MTF stages? I remember i think in 2012 there was something on a stage to Valdezcaray where Sky and Katiusha tried something on crosswinds and Valverde was caught in a crash losing a minute or close to it. Similar to what happened in Tour 2013. I found a profile of this stage - it was basically an Unipublic stage but with a steep cat. 1 in the first part.
2012_vuelta_a_espana_stage4_profile_live_tv.png
 
Re: Re:

dacooley said:
Squire said:
Valv.Piti said:
dacooley said:
the route looks quite decent. i prefer eventful single-climb mountain top finishes rather than multi-mountain stages where riders would apprehensively stare at each other before the final 1-2 kms. 8! no worry about myself being absolutely incompetent in cycling.

I kinda agree, if its one thing thats depressing its those multi mountain-stages that end up being dull affairs a few kilometres of sprints like the whole Giro 2012. The expectatations contrary to what actually happens usually creates the most disappointing stages

Well, at least with the multi mountain stages there's the possibility of good racing before the last kilometres. With a _________/ profile, it's 100% guaranteed to be a glorified bunch sprint.
verbier, farrapona, terminillo, psm... we have a number of prominent single-mountain stages. admittedly, many climbs in a profile give a hope that some of great importance may occure but it more often remains a false hope.
All the stages you mentioned didnt have attacks because they were ______/ stages, but simply because there was a mtf. If there would have been more climbs before that the stages still would have been good with the potential of being even better. Moreover most of the boring mtf stages next year end with rather short climbs, which makes the time frame in which something could happen even smaller.
 
Jun 30, 2014
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Re: Re:

SafeBet said:
Descender said:
The riders make the race. Therefore, for next year's route I suggest 21 loops around my house. Easy to organise, no need to move, cheap... all advantages. After all, the riders make the race.
Got a spare bed?

About the route, is the TTT at least rideable this year?
It's Unipublic, they could also create a downhill TTT on a technical descent, the riders would love it. :D
The route is BAD, I gave it a 4, I'm in a good mood and at least Stages 13 and 14 are good.
 
railxmig said:
@Libertine_Seguros. Is there any chance of wind action in one of those Unipublic MTF stages? I remember i think in 2012 there was something on a stage to Valdezcaray where Sky and Katiusha tried something on crosswinds and Valverde was caught in a crash losing a minute or close to it. Similar to what happened in Tour 2013. I found a profile of this stage - it was basically an Unipublic stage but with a steep cat. 1 in the first part.
2012_vuelta_a_espana_stage4_profile_live_tv.png

Stage 8 to La Camperona might be the best chance for wind action before the MTF.
 
Re: Re:

Mayomaniac said:
SafeBet said:
Descender said:
The riders make the race. Therefore, for next year's route I suggest 21 loops around my house. Easy to organise, no need to move, cheap... all advantages. After all, the riders make the race.
Got a spare bed?

About the route, is the TTT at least rideable this year?
It's Unipublic, they could also create a downhill TTT on a technical descent, the riders would love it. :D
The route is BAD, I gave it a 4, I'm in a good mood and at least Stages 13 and 14 are good.
Unipublic and downhill are two words that contradict each other. They are only vaguely aware of the existence of pieces of road after those climbs that definitely, positively cannot host a stage finish. Why those roads might be even remotely interesting, now that's something beyond their capacity.
 
Re: Re:

SafeBet said:
Descender said:
The riders make the race. Therefore, for next year's route I suggest 21 loops around my house. Easy to organise, no need to move, cheap... all advantages. After all, the riders make the race.
Got a spare bed?

About the route, is the TTT at least rideable this year?

No. It's too short, for starters.

Is this the worst route since 2008? I think it's probably worse than 2008 even.
 

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