Rate Tour De France 2018

[movingtarget]

Re:

Organisers have never learnt that if you a TTT ( of which i am a fan ) they must be stage 1 when all riders are fit and fresh - TTT's this year and in the past have been affected by crashes in earlier stages.

I doubt the cobbles or TTT will be back next year and I expect more MTFs. The short mountain stage will probably return as that seems popular. I think the prologue will be back next year but how many TT kms is the big question.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

Organisers have never learnt that if you a TTT ( of which i am a fan ) they must be stage 1 when all riders are fit and fresh - TTT's this year and in the past have been affected by crashes in earlier stages.

I doubt the cobbles or TTT will be back next year and I expect more MTFs. The short mountain stage will probably return as that seems popular. I think the prologue will be back next year but how many TT kms is the big question.

I think the TTT will stay. That is an integral part of the Tour IMHO. I think the cobbles will go away. Prologue will return naturally. And as you said, more MTF's.

 

[railxmig]

Re: Re:

Organisers have never learnt that if you a TTT ( of which i am a fan ) they must be stage 1 when all riders are fit and fresh - TTT's this year and in the past have been affected by crashes in earlier stages.

I doubt the cobbles or TTT will be back next year and I expect more MTFs. The short mountain stage will probably return as that seems popular. I think the prologue will be back next year but how many TT kms is the big question.

I think the TTT will stay. That is an integral part of the Tour IMHO. I think the cobbles will go away. Prologue will return naturally. And as you said, more MTF's.

Actually, the first two stages are already known. You can read more in this thread. You can also see the profiles here, courtesy of always helpful Lasterketa Burua. The 1st stage is the worst Tour stage ever. I hope in next weeks there'll be more rumours about the next edition.

Ah, yes... rating. I've watched only two stages. Those being the Portet finish (obviously) and Laruns one. I read about the La Rosiere stage also being good. It's nice to see Quintana winning the first time on Portet as i guess it'll get a legendary status in next 30 years or so. Laruns stage was decent with Landa and Bardet trying somehing even if they both didn't really had great legs and Roglic pushing for more rather than defend his high GC position. However, they also let Froome come back (i was hping for Froome Landis v2) and is it me, or Kruiswjik (The Sunken One) was at one time towing Froome back to the group?

Kinda sad to see Sky being basically stronger than USPS with another artificial winner. The best races are often, when the leading team is not by far the strongest. Even Giro was way better thanks to there not being a really dominant team, even if Froome pulled a Landis and Yates pulled a Simoni in TT. This edition obviously was nowhere near 2011, but i guess it's similar to 2016 (Bisanne) and 2017 (Puy-en-Velay) editions.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Organisers have never learnt that if you a TTT ( of which i am a fan ) they must be stage 1 when all riders are fit and fresh - TTT's this year and in the past have been affected by crashes in earlier stages.

I doubt the cobbles or TTT will be back next year and I expect more MTFs. The short mountain stage will probably return as that seems popular. I think the prologue will be back next year but how many TT kms is the big question.

I think the TTT will stay. That is an integral part of the Tour IMHO. I think the cobbles will go away. Prologue will return naturally. And as you said, more MTF's.

Actually, the first two stages are already known. You can read more in this thread. You can also see the profiles here, courtesy of always helpful Lasterketa Burua. The 1st stage is the worst Tour stage ever. I hope in next weeks there'll be more rumours about the next edition.

Ah, yes... rating. I've watched only two stages. Those being the Portet finish (obviously) and Laruns one. I read about the La Rosiere stage also being good. It's nice to see Quintana winning the first time on Portet as i guess it'll get a legendary status in next 30 years or so. Laruns stage was decent with Landa and Bardet trying somehing even if they both didn't really had great legs and Roglic pushing for more rather than defend his high GC position. However, they also let Froome come back (i was hping for Froome Landis v2) and is it me, or Kruiswjik (The Sunken One) was at one time towing Froome back to the group?

Kinda sad to see Sky being basically stronger than USPS with another artificial winner. The best races are often, when the leading team is not by far the strongest. Even Giro was way better thanks to there not being a really dominant team, even if Froome pulled a Landis and Yates pulled a Simoni in TT. This edition obviously was nowhere near 2011, but i guess it's similar to 2016 (Bisanne) and 2017 (Puy-en-Velay) editions.

Thanks for that, it seems I was wrong again, no prologue and another damn TTT which will probably make as much difference as this year's. So much for the old days of the sprinters getting a chance to win yellow with a prologue. The first stage looks dreadful and the TTT is too long but good for Sky I suppose. I would rather see them go back to the old days of prologue and two TTs. A mountain TT, and a flat TT but not too long and ditch the TTT or have a longer prologue than usual and one TT with a mixture of flat and hills and have an extra MTF. That could be the short stage. With BMC losing their best TTT riders who will challenge Sky ? Michelton maybe or Sunweb ?

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Gave it a 6. Did not like the cobbled stage because of the carnage we all knew would happen & the predicament it put some riders in for the remainder of the race. Green jersey: boring as all the heavy sprinters who could not get over the mountains were not there to contest the sprints in later stages of the Tour. Polka Dot: again boring and I don't have a good reason why, although I like this Alaphilippe guy. Yellow jersey: agree with everyone else who said just to predictable, Sky too strong for others to contest. But why? I guess some of the blame is on teams and racers, although I did like the final Pyrenean stage that followed a flat stage, which appeared to give some rest so the GC contenders/teams would have some punch left to attack - and hats off to Dumoulin & Roglic for trying their best to crack Sky on that stage. But some blame is on the route selection. Or length. By analogy, I hate the NBA and MLB because seasons are too long, players wear down, and single games don't mean as much. So as blasphemous as it may sound regarding the Tour, I would like to see race organizers reduce the Tour to a one week stage race. At least give it a try to see what happens. Every race would mean more to teams, racers, and sponsors as you have the same number of guys going for much fewer stage victories - each stage would be more important. And racers would have more energy and motivation to go on attack. Either try that or reduce length of stages to 60-90 km, but anything to encourage attacks.

I can hope, but as with many pro sports these days there is just too much money to be made for organizers to reduce the length of anything.

Wait, what?

That day I won't bother to watch.

I presume you mean you would not watch shorter 60-90 km stages?
Which, if so, is what race organizers have to consider, what entices people to watch. Question for you: if you watched the 65 km mountain stage-17, how did you like it?

For me, I find the first 3.5 hours of a 4-hour broadcast of a flat or hilly stage boring as the peloton let's a break stay away until the final kms. Unless it's a cobbled stage, or has meaningful intermediate sprints. In the States, the network starts broadcasting a stage after the first hour or so of racing is done. We miss all the exciting fireworks in the initial kms when breaks are trying to form and teams counter them as they decide who they are willing to let go. I wish the TV network would cover more of the initial kms of stages - excluding the neutralized starts. Maybe Steephill links do better job of covering initial kms but have not checked them lately.

 

[Son of Amsterhammer]

5. But could have been better with two basic changes.


Firstly, too many sprints in that first week. Should have been more legit hills.

Secondly - they have to review the time limits for the mountains. The alps ruined the remaining sprint stages for
Me.

It wasn’t the tours fault, but Porte going out really sucked. Landa going down hard also impacted the race IMO. No ones fault.

Big props to Dan M. Wish he could get on a better team.

 

[railxmig]

Gave it a 6. Did not like the cobbled stage because of the carnage we all knew would happen & the predicament it put some riders in for the remainder of the race. Green jersey: boring as all the heavy sprinters who could not get over the mountains were not there to contest the sprints in later stages of the Tour. Polka Dot: again boring and I don't have a good reason why, although I like this Alaphilippe guy. Yellow jersey: agree with everyone else who said just to predictable, Sky too strong for others to contest. But why? I guess some of the blame is on teams and racers, although I did like the final Pyrenean stage that followed a flat stage, which appeared to give some rest so the GC contenders/teams would have some punch left to attack - and hats off to Dumoulin & Roglic for trying their best to crack Sky on that stage. But some blame is on the route selection. Or length. By analogy, I hate the NBA and MLB because seasons are too long, players wear down, and single games don't mean as much. So as blasphemous as it may sound regarding the Tour, I would like to see race organizers reduce the Tour to a one week stage race. At least give it a try to see what happens. Every race would mean more to teams, racers, and sponsors as you have the same number of guys going for much fewer stage victories - each stage would be more important. And racers would have more energy and motivation to go on attack. Either try that or reduce length of stages to 60-90 km, but anything to encourage attacks.

I can hope, but as with many pro sports these days there is just too much money to be made for organizers to reduce the length of anything.

Wait, what?

That day I won't bother to watch.

I presume you mean you would not watch shorter 60-90 km stages?
Which, if so, is what race organizers have to consider, what entices people to watch. Question for you: if you watched the 65 km mountain stage-17, how did you like it?

For me, I find the first 3.5 hours of a 4-hour broadcast of a flat or hilly stage boring as the peloton let's a break stay away until the final kms. Unless it's a cobbled stage, or has meaningful intermediate sprints. In the States, the network starts broadcasting a stage after the first hour or so of racing is done. We miss all the exciting fireworks in the initial kms when breaks are trying to form and teams counter them as they decide who they are willing to let go. I wish the TV network would cover more of the initial kms of stages - excluding the neutralized starts. Maybe Steephill links do better job of covering initial kms but have not checked them lately.

Sometimes Rai does cover the first hour or so of a Giro stage before switching to showing some old racing of days begone (usually the Visentini Sappada blow-up) and go back for 3h or so of racing. There's also the concept of split stages to have something very short in the morning and a 60km affair later in the day. 30 years ago with like 23 days of racing often without rest days it was understandably unbearable but with recent development of shorter and shorter (mainly mountain) stages i wonder how such experiment would work out in a GT. If both stages are near each other you could have double of fun while peloton would have an hour of respite.

 

[cantpedal]

maybe a modified staggered start where the riders are spaced/released with their current time gaps on a short mountain stage. this wold give the incentive to race from the start and not just reform the bunch at the foot of the climb

 

[The Hegelian]

3.

At the end of the day, entrees and appetizers are there to lead into the main meal. In the TDF this is always the high mountains ~ the soup was okay (1st week), the bread roll (cobbles) was nice, but the main meal was actually inedible.

I didn't/couldn't eat it. Any tour where you've got better things to do when it hits the mountains is automatically a fail.

 

[Leinster]

I get that people don’t like Sky, or Sky’s dominance. I’m not a big fan of it myself, and I do long for somebody else to come along and crack their formula some how.

But I’m pretty astonished that so many people on this forum who profess to be fans of the sport of cycling, and who are generally highly knowledgeable on the subject (more than I could ever be), would allow that preconception to cloud their appreciation of what was a brilliantly raced Tour by Sky. I mean, I hated watching ManU win everything in the 90s, or New Zealand winning every rugby anything ever, but eventually you have to sit back and applaud when they do something very very well.

Sky’s double attack routine with Froome and Thomas that won the stages to Alpe d’Huez, but especially La Rosiere, was tactically outstanding, right down to Froome reacting quickest to Martin’s up-and-over. Yes they had the train, and the strongest legs, but on that stage they showed they also had the best racing awareness. Contrast with Lotto NL Jumbo struggling to leverage their 2 strong men into anything more than a too-little-too-late win into Laruns.

There was a lot to get excited about in every mountain stage and while the flat stages in the first week didn’t lend themselves to breakaway winners, that’s as much due to the science and hard work of the sprint trains as the course, or anything ASO can control.

I wish the week 1 sprinters had made it to Paris, but the top 3 on the Champs were all San Remo and cobbled classics winners; it was an endurance sprint for hard men, and I jumped out of my chair when Kristoff got there.

I wish Nibali and Porte and, to a lesser extent, Uran could have stayed rubber side down and got involved in the Pyrenees. I wish Bardet and the Movistars had better legs. I wish LNJ could had rode with a bit more focus and coordination earlier (and maybe done a half-decent TTT). But even without those things, it was still a cracking race with a worthy, and humble, winner.

 

[Koronin]

I gave it a 3. Very bad first week, mountain stages were very weak. Subplots were the only thing worth watching. Craddock's race was amazing after his stage one injury. Sagan and Alaphilippe are entertainers and did their best to put on a show.

 

[yaco]

I disagrer about Craddock. He could only ride at the back of the peleton and couldnt even collect bottles. He was no value to his team because of injury.

 

[Leinster]

Re:

I disagrer about Craddock. He could only ride at the bac of the peleton and couldnt even collect bottles. He was no value to his team because of injury.

He wasn’t an active hindrance to them, and he was clinging onto the back of the gc group on a few mountain stages where riders with no broken bones were getting dropped.

Plus he probably, may, almost certainly gained more publicity for his sponsor than the whole rest of the team. Especially once Uran was out.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

I disagrer about Craddock. He could only ride at the bac of the peleton and couldnt even collect bottles. He was no value to his team because of injury.

Craddock stayed in the race to raise money and probably also boosted the publicity for the appeal by doing that. Still showed guts to do what he did when many riders would have taken the easy way out.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

I disagrer about Craddock. He could only ride at the back of the peleton and couldnt even collect bottles. He was no value to his team because of injury.

That's right. But he was a value to Houston and at the same time some good marketing for the team.

 

[Koronin]

Craddock has managed to get some mainstream sports media coverage in the US, which for cycling is nearly impossible to do.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

I disagrer about Craddock. He could only ride at the bac of the peleton and couldnt even collect bottles. He was no value to his team because of injury.

Craddock stayed in the race to raise money and probably also boosted the publicity for the appeal by doing that. Still showed guts to do what he did when many riders would have taken the easy way out.

Training base as well. He'll be a stronger rider next season for having these tough kms in his legs.

 

[Tonton]

I won't rate it. Another Tour that will be lost in the fog of the WTF cycling. Started with a joke, ended with a joke. The best GT rider wasn't crowned, hats off to George/Chris/Ritchie/Geraint (same difference) for riding at such a high level, Geraint is fast hats off to him. I feel like I felt in '12...WTF...

The winners:
1. Geraint: he did what he had to do. Did it well, and he was Verystrong .
2. Dumourain: brave rider, after the Giro, wow! Now he needs to focus on winning Le Tour.
3. Alaf: pulled a Barguil, who had pulled a Jaja, who had pulled a Virenque. Great Tour.
4. Sagan: at this rate he can get 10 green jerseys. Wow!
5. Roglic: now that was a good (semi) surprise. I wish him well moving forward. Great rider.
6. Short stages: it works.

The so-sos:
1. Froome: third place is worst than second place, it's not good but not that bad...he shouldn't have been there. I will not erupt again, but WTF...
2. Romain, my chouchou in this race (of course), coming short. Bummer...
3. Demare won one but lost in Paris.

The losers:
1. Cavendish will never get to 34.
2. Porte and TJVG, brothers in harm, dire straits...
3. Vincenzo: maybe his last shot.
4. Zak and Pozzo, way down the GC.
5. Cycling: a decision, boos, a punch, more boos, a mess.

 

[rick james]

Why shouldn’t Froome be at the Tour de France? Because you have an agenda against him? Should we just ignore the WADA verdict and ask you who should be able to race ?

 

[rick james]

Tom D gets a brave ride after the giro, Froome gets a shouldn’t be there anyway...lol

 

[movingtarget]

I won't rate it. Another Tour that will be lost in the fog of the WTF cycling. Started with a joke, ended with a joke. The best GT rider wasn't crowned, hats off to George/Chris/Ritchie/Geraint (same difference) for riding at such a high level, Geraint is fast hats off to him. I feel like I felt in '12...WTF...

The winners:
1. Geraint: he did what he had to do. Did it well, and he was Verystrong .
2. Dumourain: brave rider, after the Giro, wow! Now he needs to focus on winning Le Tour.
3. Alaf: pulled a Barguil, who had pulled a Jaja, who had pulled a Virenque. Great Tour.
4. Sagan: at this rate he can get 10 green jerseys. Wow!
5. Roglic: now that was a good (semi) surprise. I wish him well moving forward. Great rider.
6. Short stages: it works.

The so-sos:
1. Froome: third place is worst than second place, it's not good but not that bad...he shouldn't have been there. I will not erupt again, but WTF...
2. Romain, my chouchou in this race (of course), coming short. Bummer...
3. Demare won one but lost in Paris.

The losers:
1. Cavendish will never get to 34.
2. Porte and TJVG, brothers in harm, dire straits...
3. Vincenzo: maybe his last shot.
4. Zak and Pozzo, way down the GC.
5. Cycling: a decision, boos, a punch, more boos, a mess.

Pretty much agree about Roglic and Nibali. TJ is about average TJ at the moment. Long time since we have seen anything convincing from him in a grand tour. Porte well it's all been said before. I have no words.

 

[Tonton]

Re:

Tom D gets a brave ride after the giro, Froome gets a shouldn’t be there anyway...lol

I'm not going down that road I see your point and you are probably right. For Froome, I stand my ground. Money can't buy me love, but pretty much anything else.

I didn't mention Movistar btw. Why should I? Late surge by Quintana, like in '13 and '15, when all is lost. He's no Lucho. We all want the next Brazilian star...he's Neymar.

Kittel big loser btw. Greipel riding his mouth, nothing new...

 

[Robert5091]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vegni-blasts-tour-de-france-after-rider-security-issues/

Vegni blasts Tour de France after rider security issues

'There was an air of protest that the organisers fuelled and even seemed to agree with' says Giro d'Italia director
...
“The real cycling fans have always behaved correctly. The tifosi aren’t the problem, it’s the hooligans, the drunks and the people who aren’t from our world that cause the problems,” Vegni said, suggesting the problems on Alpe d’Huez could have been avoided.

Damn those drunk Martians! :lol:

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vegni-blasts-tour-de-france-after-rider-security-issues/

Vegni blasts Tour de France after rider security issues

'There was an air of protest that the organisers fuelled and even seemed to agree with' says Giro d'Italia director
...
“The real cycling fans have always behaved correctly. The tifosi aren’t the problem, it’s the hooligans, the drunks and the people who aren’t from our world that cause the problems,” Vegni said, suggesting the problems on Alpe d’Huez could have been avoided.

Damn those drunk Martians! :lol:

The nature of road racing and the course means it's impossible to stop every possible incident. It's been better than it used to be but I understand his frustrations. Two things I would like to see gone completely are the huge flags and the flares but it will never happen of course.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vegni-blasts-tour-de-france-after-rider-security-issues/

Vegni blasts Tour de France after rider security issues

'There was an air of protest that the organisers fuelled and even seemed to agree with' says Giro d'Italia director
...
“The real cycling fans have always behaved correctly. The tifosi aren’t the problem, it’s the hooligans, the drunks and the people who aren’t from our world that cause the problems,” Vegni said, suggesting the problems on Alpe d’Huez could have been avoided.

Damn those drunk Martians! :lol:

The nature of road racing and the course means it's impossible to stop every possible incident. It's been better than it used to be but I understand his frustrations. Two things I would like to see gone completely are the huge flags and the flares but it will never happen of course.

I agree. Watch the official tdf highlight video and most clips from the alp d'huez stage are with fans with flares at the side of the road. Aso is basically motivating people to do the same again by putting those pictures in a highlight video. And I kinda get it as the pictures of riders riding through smoke and flames alongside the road look impressive but that doesn't change the fact that this behavior by fans is massively dangerous. At some point the ASO has to decide between the fans and the athletes and I fear they will decide in favor of the spectators