Reactions from the peloton

[Ferminal]

We acknowledge that there is now clear evidence that the UCI, until recent times, failed to fully and properly do its part to stamp out doping. We stand by our belief that the UCI deserves significant credit in a number of areas, namely its persistence in dealing with the Operation Puerto files and the ground-breaking introduction of the Biological Passport.

Yeh ok.....

 

[neineinei]

CA has also been taken to task lately regarding our public support of the UCI and its initiatives and commitment to the fight against doping in the sport.
We acknowledge that there is now clear evidence that the UCI, until recent times, failed to fully and properly do its part to stamp out doping. We stand by our belief that the UCI deserves significant credit in a number of areas, namely its persistence in dealing with the Operation Puerto files and the ground-breaking introduction of the Biological Passport.

What did UCI do to handle Operation Puerto except giving Valverde a suspension after CONI did all the work? And yes, UCI introduced the Biological Passport, but now they are cutting funding. But after saying UCI is a big part of the problem they need to say something nice about them too, and this was all they could come up with.

 

[enrecul]

Stuart O Grady shocked????

Seriously??

 

[JRanton]

Stuart O Grady shocked????

Seriously??

It's offensive frankly.

 

[sittingbison]

From the CA press release about firing Matt White, this has the most importance:

"...We acknowledge that there is now clear evidence that the UCI, until recent times, failed to fully and properly do its part to stamp out doping...."

A National Federation coming out and accusing the UCI of corruption has major implications for Kimmage vs corrupt Hein and Fat Pat

 

[pelodee]

Stuart O Grady shocked????

Seriously??

This same Stuart O'Grady?

 

[skimazk]

Greipel puts in his 2 cents

@TourDeJose
Blog by Andre Greipel shows someone who cares for his sport. Google translate it http://www.andregreipel.com/

http://www.andregreipel.com/

 

[Der Effe]

I'm not defending Sky, and I have no care for Columbians any more than anyone else. But I think Ryo has this one right.

It's not about right or wrong, it's about the pathetic attention seeking kiddo he is.

 

[Lukenwolf]

So he never doped, but the book has nothing new? Hmmm....

Pretending that he never doped. Why should he be interested in reading the book of a proven cheat and liar? Hell, I don't wanna read it, too. Why should I? We know they cheated and nobody gives a flying expletive on how exactly they did it. You shouldn't get to anal about the 'nothing new' bit. First of all, Jens' translations are often a bit too literal. And secondly, what is written in the book has been rumoured before. So technically it doesn't tell him anything new and interesting (that's the part of the German phrase he didn't get across).

 

[hrotha]

Pretending that he never doped. Why should he be interested in reading the book of a proven cheat and liar? Hell, I don't wanna read it, too. Why should I? We know they cheated and nobody gives a flying expletive on how exactly they did it.

Speak for yourself. Hamilton's book is very illuminating, and key to understand cycling in the late 90s-early 00s, and, therefore, cycling as it is right now.

 

[Lukenwolf]

Speak for yourself. Hamilton's book is very illuminating, and key to understand cycling in the late 90s-early 00s, and, therefore, cycling as it is right now.

Of course I speak for myself. But I would guess that someone, who's been a professional since 1997 doesn't need Tyler Hamilton to understand cycling in the 00's. He's been there. Hence his reaction to the book, which some now take as a hint of him being doped himself. For Armstrong we have either enough witnesses or even confessions by riders themselves. But why do we convict all others automatically, too?

I've never heard so much as an insinuation that Voig (or other riders for that matter) are not clean, except for people in this forum. Why do we now go for the knee-jerk reaction and summarily condem the whole lot? No wonder riders react evasively or even angrily, because the few rider, who did stay clean are now put in the stocks, right next to the cheating guy.

 

[hiero2]

Of course I speak for myself. But I would guess that someone, who's been a professional since 1997 doesn't need Tyler Hamilton to understand cycling in the 00's. He's been there. Hence his reaction to the book, which some now take as a hint of him being doped himself. For Armstrong we have either enough witnesses or even confessions by riders themselves. But why do we convict all others automatically, too?

I've never heard so much as an insinuation that Voig (or other riders for that matter) are not clean, except for people in this forum. Why do we now go for the knee-jerk reaction and summarily condem the whole lot? No wonder riders react evasively or even angrily, because the few rider, who did stay clean are now put in the stocks, right next to the cheating guy.

+1 10 char

 

[roundabout]

I think Jaksche has been less than complimentary of Voigt.

And certain performances do raise questions.

 

[Benotti69]

Of course I speak for myself. But I would guess that someone, who's been a professional since 1997 doesn't need Tyler Hamilton to understand cycling in the 00's. He's been there. Hence his reaction to the book, which some now take as a hint of him being doped himself. For Armstrong we have either enough witnesses or even confessions by riders themselves. But why do we convict all others automatically, too?

I've never heard so much as an insinuation that Voig (or other riders for that matter) are not clean, except for people in this forum. Why do we now go for the knee-jerk reaction and summarily condem the whole lot? No wonder riders react evasively or even angrily, because the few rider, who did stay clean are now put in the stocks, right next to the cheating guy.

You have not been reading the right web forums or magazines to fully understand the true doping nature of cycling.

When a 41 year old can beat guys in their prime, there are questions, a lot questions to be asked.

 

[hrotha]

Voigt rode at a time when anything between 85 and 90% of pro riders at the top level were doping, and he had great results. In that context, it's not "what have we heard to suggest he doped?'", but "what have we heard to suggest he was one of the few clean ones?"

 

[Lukenwolf]

Well, I never said that I'm a hundred percent convinced that he was clean and I'll be heartbroken if it turns out he wasn't. I'm just not negative enough to summarily dismiss the lot of them and saying "oops my bad" to the few, who actually were clean afterwards.
I still think it is wrong to lash out allegations without at least halfway solid facts of proof. Bassons is a classical example. He was a clean rider in a cesspool of organized doping (Festina). That's why I'm holding on to the hope that such examples existed elsewhere, too (CSC, Terrorkom, Saunier Duval, Astana and other teams with a lot of doping incidents)

 

[cineteq]

Of course I speak for myself. But I would guess that someone, who's been a professional since 1997 doesn't need Tyler Hamilton to understand cycling in the 00's. He's been there. Hence his reaction to the book, which some now take as a hint of him being doped himself.

The thing is he doesn't realize that he's comment: 'the book has nothing new', is an admission of doping in disguise, after stating he never doped. Is this guy blond by any chance?

 

[Lukenwolf]

You have not been reading the right web forums or magazines to fully understand the true doping nature of cycling.

When a 41 year old can beat guys in their prime, there are questions, a lot questions to be asked.

He won exactly one race this year and none last year. That's not exactly a world beater He's mostly been spending his season with killing himself for others - riding tempo for a 100km and then trying to make it in before the cut. Those mammoth attacks of his, where he was out in the wind for the whole stage have become awfully rare in the last 5 years.
And I don't understand why people get so hung up on the age. His first and formost asset was his stamina and that's pretty much the last thing that declines if you get older. Reflexes, the ability to deliver power in quick boosts - all that dimishes before your stamina lets go. In fact for most marathon runners stamina actually improves way into their thirties.

 

[Lukenwolf]

The thing is he doesn't realize that he's comment: 'the book has nothing new', is an admission of doping in disguise, after stating he never doped. Is this guy blond by any chance?

No, but he's not a native english speaker. He more or less literally translated, what he thought in German. He merely wanted to say that he doesn't have any interest in reading it.

 

[fat_boy_fat]

Is this guy blond by any chance?

He must be kind of straightforward thinking, maybe a little simple. Others would say naive.

Remember him being CPA speaker until November 2007? What a sad episode! They had to find someone of his reputation but without higher mental skills for this job and they found him.

I recall a statement he made being CPA speaker in a popular Saturday evening sports show on German TV, where he went into the offensive and accused the media of prejudice and things. He must have known better – I couldn’t believe seeing him doing this.

Blond or not – that was really, really dumb.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

I think Jaksche has been less than complimentary of Voigt.

And certain performances do raise questions.

http://www.radsport-news.com/sport/sportnews_47878.htm

and

http://www.spiegel.de/sport/sonst/jaksches-dopingbekenntnis-das-gestaendnis-von-bella-a-491566.html

Jaksche: "Ich fragte Jens Voigt, der damals für die französische Gan-Mannschaft fuhr, was sein Team denn nun mache. Voigt sagte: Einer hat bei uns vorgeschlagen, alles entlang der Strecke zu vergraben und nach der Tour abzuholen. Wie die Kleinganoven haben wir uns damals verhalten." Voigt,


This conversation happened after the Festina scandal and there was always therisk of raids. Jak: "I asked Jens Voigt, who drove at that time for the French Gan crew, what did the team do."

Voigt said: One suggested us to bury it along the route and fetch it at some distance. That's how we behaved at that time

Here too http://cyclingheroes.tripod.com/cyclingheroes.english2/id722.html

 

[hiero2]

RE: all the pills Phinney is on about - here's an article about QuickStep from 4 years ago (76 pills a day!?) http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1018/Wielren...-de-France-76-pillen-per-dag.dhtml?redirected

Also, Cummings doesn't even take caffeine pills but said this of Armstrong.. "It is easy to say and point your finger on all the bad things but you could look at the good things he has done as well. He has done a lot good things, like his cancer charity, you know. When I met him, he was a nice guy to me."
does not compute. If he is that anti-doping then you'd think his view would be a little stronger.

That's a very good article.

As for Cummings trying to look at things positively, I don't find anything wrong with that. Keeping a positive outlook is very important when you are an athlete. And, it speaks well for a person when they try and see the good side. Thirdly, remember Betsy Andreu spoke about how charming Lance could be, so there is that too. One might guess Cummings never crossed LA, so Armstrong felt no need to blast him, eh?

 

[Sarcastic Wet Trout]

http://www.andregreipel.com/

Finally.

Someone in the peloton saying doping is an ongoing problem.

Thank you Andre Greipel!

 

[Tinman]

@UCI_Overlord

Wonderful conversation with an influential member of the pro peloton. He's applying pressure. Expect a more vocal peloton in coming weeks.

 

[hiero2]

http://www.radsport-news.com/sport/sportnews_47878.htm

and

http://www.spiegel.de/sport/sonst/jaksches-dopingbekenntnis-das-gestaendnis-von-bella-a-491566.html




Here too http://cyclingheroes.tripod.com/cyclingheroes.english2/id722.html

Good articles, Zam! Thank you. Jaksche is much less than complimentary of Voigt. However, one thing stands out - every one of these articles is Jaksche speaking about one incident of something Voigt said to him in 1999. By the way, your last link has the best English translation of the comment. One can still choose to believe what Jens says today. I don't think he has denied ever knowing anything about it - he has denied ever doing the doping. Jaksche is an interesting "witness" - he holds Sinkewitz to be blameless for his transgressions. Useful, but not the final word, I think.