READ THIS! (Posting Violations)

[Alpe d'Huez]

What the hell happened to this place?

I walk away for a half-day and the place has turned into a food fight. My inbox fills with complaints, even direct e-mails, and threads fill with post after post of bickering, antagonizing, nonsense.

I've probably deleted over 100 posts in the last week of people posting lies, rude or nasty comments, or insults, almost all of them in the Clinic; Two members have been banned by the administrators, and I don't know how many warnings and infractions have been given in that time, and I'm quite frankly sick of it.

180mm Crank wrote this post about forum rules. I strongly suggest everyone read them. Failure to follow them will result in your posts being deleted. You may also be given warnings and infractions, and run the risk of being outright banned.

 

[Slayer]

Yeah I think a few of them think it's a free for all against this Rise From the Dead user. It's got a bit nasty. Probably more repetative than really nasty though. He says EPO doesn't really work, they say it does, blah blah blah. A few interesting points have come out of it though, mainly made by the odd contribution from me.

 

[Ferminal]

Yeah I think a few of them think it's a free for all against this Rise From the Dead user. It's got a bit nasty. Probably more repetative than really nasty though. He says EPO doesn't really work, they say it does, blah blah blah. A few interesting points have come out of it though, mainly made by the odd contribution from me.

Even though yourself, The Arbiter/Ban Pro Cycling/British Pro Cycling/Sprocket01/Earth Tribe/White Shark/Rex Hunter/Slayer and Deadlift/Rise of the Dead were the first two to pipe up about Armstrong in This Thread

 

[Slayer]

Yes indeed I did contribute to that thread from about five pages in. Just said that, thanks. That's the best bit. And has none of that back and forth insults that a lot of you like to do.

Someone maybe a bit simplistic in their points, as Rise From the Dead is, but sometimes you guys get a bit carried away by ganging up on them. Spoils the forum a bit.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Yes indeed I did contribute to that thread from about five pages in. Just said that, thanks. That's the best bit. And has none of that back and forth insults that a lot of you like to do.

Someone maybe a bit simplistic in their points, as Rise From the Dead is, but sometimes you guys get a bit carried away by ganging up on them. Spoils the forum a bit.

No, what actually spoils the forum is people desperate for attention enough to return from multiple bans.

But ok, whatever. Some people need the attention, I guess, as pathetic as it is.

 

[Race Radio]

No, what actually spoils the forum is people desperate for attention enough to return from multiple bans.

But ok, whatever. Some people need the attention, I guess, as pathetic as it is.

Certainly we can agree that it is pathetic. That these same posters continue to taunt the mods by claiming they can switch IP addresses in a second only confirms they are committed to trolling, not contributing.

The herpes of the message board returns again and again.

 

[Slayer]

Put him on ignore then. I think what's annoying Alpe d'Huez is the way you start repeatedly saying 'Oh the idiots back' and that type of thing. Some people don't like to read that. Maybe the odd one, but not again and again and again on loads of threads. It turns the place into a school playground.

 

[Race Radio]

Put him on ignore then. I think what's annoying Alpe d'Huez is the way you start repeatedly saying 'Oh the idiots back' and that type of thing. Some people don't like to read that. Maybe the odd one, but not again and again and again on loads of threads. It turns the place into a school playground.

The simple solution is that instead of starting a new username every time you get banned you find something better to do with your time then trolling a cycling message board.

/Cue persecution rant by troll.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Perfect example. I could arguably delete or edit most of the posts in this thread already. But for now, I'll leave it as a "spray" dumping ground.

 

[Ferminal]

Well, the moderators and decision makers just need to take decisive action.

1) Either let these serial pests continue to haunt the forums despite being banned multiple times. Pardon them and let everyone know that they are here to contribute thus the 90% of members who are annoyed by them (myself included) will stop aggressively picking out their posts. Protect them, do whatever you have to to make sure we stop whinging about them.

2) Realise that the reason they have been banned once, and twice etc is because they don't contribute, and from now on be proactive in restricting their posting. There's no reason for their multiple accounts to be hanging around more than 24h if you are going down this route.

So it's either 1 or 2, at the moment we are about 1.6 which is a lot messier.

Either "we" are in the wrong for vilifying them, or "they" are in the wrong for being utterly useless to every thread they post in.

 

[Ripper]

Wow.

I apologize for my part. I go with the ignore after a while, but even hearing (2nd hand) about Dead's comments makes me role my eyes. A whole new level of trolldom. It's like trying to convince us the world is flat

 

[Martin318is]

I seem to recall that there were several of us who brought this up at the time the site changes were made - That if careful and tight moderation wasn't maintained from the very begining, the forum would become a haven to this type of trolling/name-calling and generally lose a lot of its potential value.

There are several high-count posters here that seem to think that they have a mandate to behave however they like based upon being a high-count poster. Labelling everybody else 'trolls' etc...

Other forums that I am involved in can successfully keep the conversation out of the gutter and also ensure that banned users cannot return - why can't this one?

 

[Race Radio]

If a poster is banned 8-10 times for trolling what should they be called?

If a poster repeatedly highjacks threads with unsupportable, ridiculous claims that are designed to bait other posters and derail any real discussion most would say this is a troll. It appears we have 1-2 here.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Another invisible part of the problem is that there used to be some heated, but civil and highly informative debates that went on in this forum. Some of them very insightful, and science based. Members such as Beroepsrenner, ScienceIsCool, Joe Papp, Gree232, Grimpeur, rarely even show up on the site anymore, and who could blame them? Some of these members were ex-professional cyclists, coaches, or people with scientific or medical professional backgrounds. Add to that, respected members such as Elapid, Cobber, Cobblestones, Benpounder rarely set foot in the clinic anymore.

 

[Ripper]

If a poster is banned 8-10 times for trolling what should they be called?

Super troll?

Personality disordered?

 

[David Suro]

Luckily, the racing will begin again soon and there will be more substance to post about. In the mean time chronic antagonistic posters have nothing to do but be increasingly antagonistic.

Happy New Year to all.

 

[BroDeal]

Gotta give props to Alpe for trying to do something about the problems, but the problem is CN's staff's responsibility. The admin needs to step up and put an end to it by permanently banning disruptive members. As long as they allow every new iteration of trolls to exist for a couple of weeks before doing something then the members will continue to attempt to handle the situation themselves.

We have reached a new level of idiocy as the trolls argue that drugs don't even work.

I barely read a lot of threads here now. I find myself skipping entire pages.

 

[B.Rasmussen]

Well, the moderators and decision makers just need to take decisive action.

1) Either let these serial pests continue to haunt the forums despite being banned multiple times. Pardon them and let everyone know that they are here to contribute thus the 90% of members who are annoyed by them (myself included) will stop aggressively picking out their posts. Protect them, do whatever you have to to make sure we stop whinging about them.

2) Realise that the reason they have been banned once, and twice etc is because they don't contribute, and from now on be proactive in restricting their posting. There's no reason for their multiple accounts to be hanging around more than 24h if you are going down this route.

So it's either 1 or 2, at the moment we are about 1.6 which is a lot messier.

Either "we" are in the wrong for vilifying them, or "they" are in the wrong for being utterly useless to every thread they post in.

Exactly. Either allow the trolls to stay and protect them like any poster or crack down on them hard every time they resurface. Option 1 will ruin the forum though.

Alpe, well done on trying to crack down on this mess. As a former moderator and admin of other forums I really appreciate what you're doing here and I know how annoying it is. Brodeal is right though. This is an admin problem, they need to fix this and fix it fast before this forum is ruined completely.

Trolls should be blocked from returning, the fact that BPC wasn't IP banned still amazes me. There are of course methods to go around a ban like that but it complicates things for the troll and if/when they do then it's a moderator issue where you make sure their posts are either deleted or moved to a nonread forum until a ban can be issued. Most of us can recognize BPC within 5 posts max. and yet he is allowed to go on for days.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Lifes too short to waste time posting, only to find they may get thrown out in the garbage. Reading insane rubbish can't actually become addictive, therefore very time consuming.
As Bro says, this is CN staff's buck.
Time to go cold turkey.
Self impossed suspension time.

 

[53 x 11]

 

[filipo]

I barely read a lot of threads here now. I find myself skipping entire pages.

Troll goal: Achieved.

 

[Willy_Voet]

Misbehavior is a problem in every forum, even in 'unmoderated, anything goes' forums. I don't envy the CN staff or Alpe's position...

IMHO, The Clinic is the kind of place where the CN forum can segregate the attention *****s and trolls. It's either that or a strict 'zero tolerance' stance that can alienate a lot of folks and make life very difficult for moderators and staff.

That some people would switch IPs to come back here again and again to cause problems is very telling. People pushing the limits and breaking the rules...kind of what The Clinic is all about anyways, isn't it?

 

[Rise Of The Dead]

Lifes too short to waste time posting, only to find they may get thrown out in the garbage. Reading insane rubbish can't actually become addictive, therefore very time consuming.

Mellow, it works both ways. There will forever to be two sides to an argument. Two different opinions, two different arguments. Its a double sided coin... You might not believe me, but I'm actually reading insane rubbish myself. For every point you make against doping being behind a cycling success, there is another one to prove otherwise. I could argue with Greg Lemond for the next decade as to why doping can't win you, Millar, Shlecks, Armstrong etc the Tour. All I have heard from people on these forums is every success story in cycling comes down to doping. Not the case.

Exactly. Either allow the trolls to stay and protect them like any poster or crack down on them hard every time they resurface. Option 1 will ruin the forum though. This is an admin problem, they need to fix this and fix it fast before this forum is ruined completely. Trolls should be blocked from returning.

Or is the fact of the matter, you just hear what you want to hear, your too ignorant & pig headed to actually look at the bigger picture?.

 

[Ferminal]

Mellow, it works both ways. There will forever to be two sides to an argument. Two different opinions, two different arguments. Its a double sided coin... You might not believe me, but I'm actually reading insane rubbish myself. For every point you make against doping being behind a cycling success, there is another one to prove otherwise. I could argue with Greg Lemond for the next decade as to why doping can't win you, Millar, Shlecks, Armstrong etc the Tour. All I have heard from people on these forums is every success story in cycling comes down to doping. Not the case.



Or is the fact of the matter, you just hear what you want to hear, your too ignorant & pig headed to actually look at the bigger picture?.

All one asks is to display reasoning.

You cannot provide reasoning to suggest why world class cyclists (Valverde, Rebellin etc) win things whilst doping, when doping does nothing. Why do they dope?

Most posters who sit closer to the BigBoat line of "everyone dopes" usually provide some understandable reasoning. You are simply the anti-BigBoat, the equal and opposite. You only have to look at the forums in around May/June/July when BigBoat was active, and you will see that lots of people began to ignore him and wonder why he was still here.

It's not one's stance or opinion, it's the lack of logical reasoning in support of an argument and being able to hold an intelligent debate where each person provide and rebut points, not just post the same line every time.

 

[Rise Of The Dead]

All one asks is to display reasoning.

You cannot provide reasoning to suggest why world class cyclists (Valverde, Rebellin etc) win things whilst doping, when doping does nothing. Why do they dope?

Its all a Double sided coin, everything. EPO works, EPO doesn't work. Facts it did work, facts it didn't work. EPO enhances performance, at the same has negative side effects on athletic performance. Riders saw success doping, others didn't. Doping can't win you the Tour, Doping is the holy grail. Its 2 & throw. You said it best; No one has ever claimed doping guarantees Tour success, not for Armstrong in '99, Millar in '03, Riis in '97 etc etc...