READ THIS! (Posting Violations)

[BikeCentric]

I'd just like to make a big shout-out to the trolls! Congratulations guys, you have won and succeeded in your goal of taking over the forum with drivel and drowning out the good posters.

Moderators, you've done an epic fail job of policing this forum. Have a good year all and enjoy the racing.

 

[Race Radio]

You may actually believe that about yourself, but frankly I don't think in reality it's true. Your tolerance level if very low and applies to a very narrow band of agreeing opinion.



I think that's part of the problem. Terming counter views as "garbage" designed to "bait and disrupt". Do you think others would last very long if they used that type of direct language about your own views? Why do you believe you have the right to say things that others are not? This is precisely what Martin was referring to - certain users think they are untouchable here. It's regrettable.

Also, the language that you express your own opinions often leaves no room for doubt, even though you cannot be sure, and that can come across as quite baiting and trolling itself. For instance, you should not just assert someone definitely took a blood bag, or that "we know" someone can't ride a tour without being doped. What you should do it make an argument saying you believe the circumstantial evidence shows this is likely to be the case. But don't claim to have some special access to "the truth" and anyone who disagrees with this is a troll. Otherwise the debate quickly becomes polarised as people take your bait, leading to the very problems this thread is about.

If this forum is going to get better then people like yourself need to stop ducking thes appeals from the moderators. We can all improve here. No one is above this.

You have been banned here many times for a reason. "Persecution for your beliefs" is just part of your proclaimed strategy to disrupt. Since when is imploring a person to commit perjury a counter view? How is lying about other posters to bait them responding to your garbage and derailing the thread a counter view?

If you had a legitimate point, which you have not so far presented, then the many rational thinking people who frequent this forum would not be calling you out for what you are, a Troll.

 

[Willy_Voet]

Uh oh. someone forgot to switch accounts before self agreeing...

Hehe Good catch.

 

[Ripper]

...

So, do you deny that you have been ...
- Arbiter?
- BPC, etc?
- Sprocket1?

 

[Race Radio]

So, do you deny that you have been ...
- Arbiter?
- BPC, etc?
- Sprocket1?

British Pro Cycling, Bristol Pro Cycling, Max Power, Great White, BanProCycling, The list goes on and on.

 

[pmcg76]

I have tried to stay out of the countless Lance threads in the clinic but it was hard to ignore the comments that EPO was useless being made by Rise. I took him on last night and pointed out all his untrue facts and lies. I am not up their on the science of doping in detail but I know my cycling so I can see the lies and BS.

Rise claimed last night that he heard Ullrich had a haematocrit of 42% in the 97 Tour post race press conference. This never, ever happened otherwise we would all have known about it. It was Kevin Livingston who said Ullrich had a level of 42% in 2002.

He them claims that Riis had a level of 56% in 97 even though the UCI had set a level of 50%. The 56% level is from a file from the Gewiss team in 1995.
Rise of the dead just took the 2 figures and pput them together for 1997. This is pure lies and he is still claiming the same today.

I wont even go into the Millar debate, I also pointed out that EPO does not turn every rider into a Tour winner because thats impossibe but improvement is relative to natural talent and how riders respond to EPO. I think everyone on here agrees with this but we are being told that we are claiming EPO is the only thing that makes a Tour winner by Rise and Slayer.

If somebody is just making up lies to make a point, what is their real purpose on here. Really. It is to disrupt.

In general I dont put people on ignore because if somebody disagrees with me, fair enough. Rise of the Dead is the first person I have ever asked to be banned because he is just lying so as to disrupt. Secondly, I try to keep the insults to the minimun but anybody can call me if they feel I insulted them.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

So, do you deny that you have been ...
- Arbiter?
- BPC, etc?
- Sprocket1?

Ripper - in one of Slayers previous incarnations I asked directly if they had ever posted under any of those names - do not expect an honest or forthright answer.

I have been rather busy lately so I do not get to check in as often as I did - but what has happened on the forum recently is very sad for an excellent outlet.

Certain posters only goal is to disrupt the threads - one has to ask what is the motivation to do so?
Many good posters who used to contribute are now gone - many of the good threads are too long for most to read. Its my view that that is their sole intention.
As was pointed out earlier this is a (imo serious) issue for the CN admin to resolve quickly or the visitors to the forum will stay away.

 

[Slayer]

You have been banned here many times for a reason. "Persecution for your beliefs" is just part of your proclaimed strategy to disrupt. Since when is imploring a person to commit perjury a counter view? How is lying about other posters to bait them responding to your garbage and derailing the thread a counter view?

If you had a legitimate point, which you have not so far presented, then the many rational thinking people who frequent this forum would not be calling you out for what you are, a Troll.

I gave it my best shot, Alpe d'Huez. It's pretty clear now who thinks they have special license.

 

[Polish]

Fail Forum

the general culture towards those that take a contrary type of view in an anti doping forum. They're often treated as heretics.

Good points, but I would not consider the Clinic an "anti doping forum".

A young pro potential doper would be well served by the almost incessant blather that "doping will transform you into a success" heard on this forum. Fail.

Combine that with the "served his time" blather, it is hard to view this forum as anti doping.

The Clinic IS Anti Lance for sure, however. FanBoys are not only heretics, they are also short jet retards All Aboard!

 

[Race Radio]

I gave it my best shot, Alpe d'Huez. It's pretty clear now who thinks they have special license.

When you say best shot are you referring to your months of trolling with 8-10 different usernames? Do you expect anyone on this forum to ignore your history and think that you have suddenly become a rational person?

 

[Slayer]

Certain posters only goal is to disrupt the threads - one has to ask what is the motivation to do so?

***Sighs***

Then look...

As was pointed out earlier this is a (imo serious) issue for the CN admin to resolve quickly or the visitors to the forum will stay away.

Just like I said.

Maybe you missed it, but I outlined this strategy, or mentality if you like, further back.

At least if you are going to make a contribution to this thread you should address the OP. Do you not think it has got a little bit nasty? Should it really turn into a free for all if there is a poster a lot people disagree with? Put someone on ignore rather than gang up on them. It just ruins the threads otherwise.

Maybe you should address Martin's point too.

 

[Hugh Januss]

When you say best shot are you referring to your months of trolling with 8-10 different usernames? Do you expect anyone on this forum to ignore your history and think that you have suddenly become a rational person?

Proof that lobotomy works?

 

[Slayer]

When you say best shot are you referring to your months of trolling with 8-10 different usernames? Do you expect anyone on this forum to ignore your history and think that you have suddenly become a rational person?

My best shot was an attempt to reason with you about your style - it's a huge part of the problem - but you ignored all that and decided to do a little trolling response instead.

There is nothing more to be said really, is there?

 

[Slayer]

Good points, but I would not consider the Clinic an "anti doping forum".

A young pro potential doper would be well served by the almost incessant blather that "doping will transform you into a success" heard on this forum. Fail.

Combine that with the "served his time" blather, it is hard to view this forum as anti doping.

The Clinic IS Anti Lance for sure, however. FanBoys are not only heretics, they are also short jet retards All Aboard!

Indeed, I agree. A lot of what is said here is very counterproductive.

I used "anti doping forum" more to demonstrate how they see it. Some think they are anti doping activists fighting for a great moral cause, and thus they must be morally superior to those that have a problem with some of their arguments. This can lead to them being quite malicious and nasty, often without realising it, against people they believe are not fully onboard. It's the old story of people believing a righteous cause means they are special and have rights that nobody else does.

 

[Escarabajo]

I have tried to stay out of the countless Lance threads in the clinic but it was hard to ignore the comments that EPO was useless being made by Rise. I took him on last night and pointed out all his untrue facts and lies. I am not up their on the science of doping in detail but I know my cycling so I can see the lies and BS.

Rise claimed last night that he heard Ullrich had a haematocrit of 42% in the 97 Tour post race press conference. This never, ever happened otherwise we would all have known about it. It was Kevin Livingston who said Ullrich had a level of 42% in 2002.

He them claims that Riis had a level of 56% in 97 even though the UCI had set a level of 50%. The 56% level is from a file from the Gewiss team in 1995.
Rise of the dead just took the 2 figures and pput them together for 1997. This is pure lies and he is still claiming the same today.

I wont even go into the Millar debate, I also pointed out that EPO does not turn every rider into a Tour winner because thats impossibe but improvement is relative to natural talent and how riders respond to EPO. I think everyone on here agrees with this but we are being told that we are claiming EPO is the only thing that makes a Tour winner by Rise and Slayer.

If somebody is just making up lies to make a point, what is their real purpose on here. Really. It is to disrupt.

In general I dont put people on ignore because if somebody disagrees with me, fair enough. Rise of the Dead is the first person I have ever asked to be banned because he is just lying so as to disrupt. Secondly, I try to keep the insults to the minimun but anybody can call me if they feel I insulted them.

Sure you are becoming one of the best posters in my books, I am sure we don't want you to go away becuase of this unsane lunatic.

I don't understand why this guy has not had an IP ban. It is destroying this place. I don't care if by banning him it will block his neighborhood from entering the cyclingnews forums.

 

[Race Radio]

My best shot was an attempt to reason with you about your style - it's a huge part of the problem - but you ignored all that and decided to do a little trolling response instead.

There is nothing more to be said really, is there?

That is your best shot? Once again you invented thing that I have never written in a lame attempt to bait me into responding to you.

-I have never written that ""we know" someone can't ride a tour without being doped" I would never write that as I do not believe it.
-I do not label "anyone who disagrees with this is a troll" You are who I call a troll. As you have been banned multiple times for trolling it is valid description

your many usernames have gleefully claimed satisfaction from "Stirring up" by baiting users and the forum in general. You have taunted the moderators with claims that any attempt to ban you would result in vast sections of southern England not being able to access CN. The absurdity of your position is clear, that is why you do not have anyone leaping to defend this imaginary injustice.

 

[Race Radio]

I don't understand why this guy has not had an IP ban. It is destroying this place. I don't care if by banning him it will block his neighborhood from entering the cyclingnews forums.

It will not, it is just another of his claims designed to cause confusion, add nothing to the discussion and drive users away. If other users think that the problem is unsolvable then they will not return to the chaos. Troll wins.

 

[Slayer]

Sure you are becoming one of the best posters in my books, I am sure we don't want you to go away becuase of this unsane lunatic.

I don't understand why this guy has not had an IP ban. It is destroying this place. I don't care if by banning him it will block his neighborhood from entering the cyclingnews forums.

I agree his point about EPO not working is simplistic, but there is truth to the claim that EPO and doping - especially these days - doesn't transform riders into entirely different categories of rider. It's a shame that he spoils it by not being more precise and less repetative, but it's no worse than those that choose to join in and enjoy slagging him off. Some, like Ripper, have apologised for their part in that. It's a shame others are too high and mighty to take a look at themselves as well.

 

[Slayer]

That is your best shot? Once again you invented thing that I have never written in a lame attempt to bait me into responding to you.

-I have never written that ""we know" someone can't ride a tour without being doped" I would never write that as I do not believe it.
-I do not label "anyone who disagrees with this is a troll" You are who I call a troll. As you have been banned multiple times for trolling it is valid description

Your style is very definitive and often leaves no room to disagree, which then polarises the debate as people jump in to counter it. It's fine to have passionate views but sometimes you need to take a step back and ask yourself if you can moderate the sharp edges and be a little more tolerant of those that aren't necessarily on the same wave length as you. I have to do that all the time, so why can't you?

You do seem to think you seem to have a right to use inflammatory language and set yourselves up as the arbiter, as it were, of who is supposed to be a "troll" and a "disruption". You announce who has "sock puppets" and tell people where they are supposed to live in the world (he told me I'm supposed to live in Pacific Grove). Others have noticed this as well - it's not just me. I'm afraid some of the regular posters here do need to do a little work themselves, and your rather paranoid and direct style is one of those areas.

Just asserting there are these terrible people called "trolls" who just want to spoil all threads for the sake of it (which usually means they want to disagree), isn't going to cut it anymore.

 

[pmcg76]

Indeed, I agree. A lot of what is said here is very counterproductive.

I used "anti doping forum" more to demonstrate how they see it. Some think they are anti doping activists fighting for a great moral cause, and thus they must be morally superior to those that have a problem with some of their arguments. This can lead to them being quite malicious and nasty, often without realising it, against people they believe are not fully onboard. It's the old story of people believing a righteous cause means they are special and have rights that nobody else does.

A few months back, I had a big debate with Ludwig on the link between doping and winning. I found it very interesting as did a few others. Here is the thing, it remained civil because we respected each other and didnt resort to insulting each other, we tried to answer each others questions/points. The other factor was all our arguments were based on realistic points of views, in the end we agreed to disagree on our view but there were no problems.

The difference with somebody like Rise is that he posts outlandish claims that are just unrealistic. But when his points are addressed and shown to be incorrect and lies, he continues to repeat the same claims over and over even though they are lies, ask direct legitimate questions and he just ignores them as do you. You expect people to give the same respect to somebody who is making untrue outlandish posts as somebody who is showing knowledge and then backing that knowledge with facts. Aint gonna happen.


Yes, some people are a bit extreme in their responses and I can understand their frustration. There are a lot of people on here with a huge knowledge of the sport and its difficult to ingnore somebody like Rise of the dead which is his aim. I was trying to stay out of the Clinic but this guy was just ****ing me of with his claims, I just said I am gonna destroy all his ridiculous theories which I think I did. I didnt insult him or anything but he still kept posting the same lies and ignoring questions. That is just being disruptive which is clearly his only aim. He deserves to go.

 

[Race Radio]

Your style is very definitive and often leaves no room to disagree, which then polarises the debate as people jump in to counter it. It's fine to have passionate views but sometimes you need to take a step back and ask yourself if you can moderate the sharp edges and be a little more tolerant of those that aren't necessarily on the same wave length as you. I have to do that all the time.

You do seem to think you seem to have a right to use inflammatory language and set yourselves up as the arbiter, as it were, of who is supposed to be a "troll" and a "disruption". You announce who has "sock puppets" and tell people where they are supposed to live in the world (he told me I'm supposed to live in Pacific Grove). Others have noticed this as well - it's not just me. I'm afraid some of the regular posters here do need to do a little work themselves, and your rather paranoid and direct style is one of those areas.

Just asserting there are these terrible people called "trolls" who just want to spoil all threads for the sake of it (which usually means they want to disagree), isn't going to cut it anymore.

As usual you are attempting to confuse the issue.

I label you, and your multiple banned usernames troll, because that is what you are. I do not use this for everyone that I disagree with, just you. This is largely the case with most posters here. You highjack a thread, bait posters, then claim persecution when multiple posters call you out on your trolling.

You are the target of multiple posters bile because of your deliberate actions, not because they incapable of civil discussion.

 

[Race Radio]

You expect people to give the same respect to somebody who is making untrue outlandish posts as somebody who is showing knowledge and then backing that knowledge with facts. Aint gonna happen.

Very true.

 

[Ripper]

I agree his point about EPO not working is simplistic, but there is truth to the claim that EPO and doping - especially these days - doesn't transform riders into entirely different categories of rider. It's a shame that he spoils it by not being more precise and less repetative, but it's no worse than those that choose to join in and enjoy slagging him off. Some, like Ripper, have apologised for their part in that. It's a shame others are too high and mighty to take a look at themselves as well.

You have not answered my questions about past posting identities. Nor the Dr's. I can therefore presume you are BPC (etc), Arbiter, Great White, Sprocket1, Max Power, and so forth.

Such a history actually suggests you are trolling, as many of these incarnations did just seem to be one tracked and focused on disruption.

 

[Slayer]

A few months back, I had a big debate with Ludwig on the link between doping and winning. I found it very interesting as did a few others. Here is the thing, it remained civil because we respected each other and didnt resort to insulting each other, we tried to answer each others questions/points. The other factor was all our arguments were based on realistic points of views, in the end we agreed to disagree on our view but there were no problems.

The difference with somebody like Rise is that he posts outlandish claims that are just unrealistic. But when his points are addressed and shown to be incorrect and lies, he continues to repeat the same claims over and over even though they are lies, ask direct legitimate questions and he just ignores them as do you. You expect people to give the same respect to somebody who is making untrue outlandish posts as somebody who is showing knowledge and then backing that knowledge with facts. Aint gonna happen.


Yes, some people are a bit extreme in their responses and I can understand their frustration. There are a lot of people on here with a huge knowledge of the sport and its difficult to ingnore somebody like Rise of the dead which is his aim. I was trying to stay out of the Clinic but this guy was just ****ing me of with his claims, I just said I am gonna destroy all his ridiculous theories which I think I did. I didnt insult him or anything but he still kept posting the same lies and ignoring questions. That is just being disruptive which is clearly his only aim. He deserves to go.

Well I am mostly talking about a wider cultural here at the clinic in relation to those that take differing views - those that are not part of the 'in the know' groupset are often treated with contempt - but you can always just ignore this particular poster. The reaction to him has caused more disruption that the poster himself.

I think a certain amount of people probably enjoy that - and yes it must be fun to gang up on him - but it can come across as bullying. A lot of people don't like to read nastiness, so maybe the ignore function is the way to go.

 

[Anonymous]

What's really a shame is posters who willfully ignore mountains of evidence supporting 1.) Rampant drug use in the peloton by the biggest names in the sport, 2.) Credible data demonstrating the performance benefits from PED use (not just in cycling), and 3.) Corruption within the sport's governing body.

Post crap for reasons known only to a few with the sole mission to derail an otherwise useful discussion where folks like me actually learn things. This is the reason (IMO) the trolls come to the fore.