Reduce the Number of Cars and Motos!

[RedheadDane]

I'm willing to bet a huge deal of those motos belong to some minor newspapper or sports mag which any race could do without.

Do you then suggest it cannot do without the major papers or mags? Sounds pretty elitist, un-you. &#128528 I'd say the only motorbikes allowed should be the ones the TV broadcasters covering the races and the officials. Plus, a few minor LOCAL newspapers or sport mags.

I knew you'd pick on that. That's not what I meant, bad wording I guess. What I'm saying is that the least possible number of vehicles should be in the race, and by that I mean TV, commissaires, a few local newspappers and pretty much none else. I get local newspappers covering local races, and I think they should, but on the bigger events, which come across various localities, more of the small media would be entitled to be on the caravane, meaning not enough space for everyone. If it's possible to filter just one or two local newspappers, that's cool, but some should stay out. Following my example, I'm totally cool with some Algarvian press having motos on the Volta ao Algarve, but I don't understand the Ciclismo a Fondo moto being there.

And yes, I may be sounding unfair as these races were local races before they rose to a higher status.

Hang on... are you saying that each individual newspaper/magazine have their own personal photographers?
Why not just have one set of Official Race Photographers, which the various media then have to pay a small fee - size depending of the size of the media - in order to use. Sure, it'll mean that all the various media will be illustrating their stories with the same pictures, but well; it'll be the same story! Race reports will have to same winners on the pictures...
And maybe local photographers could "get the gig", so to speak.

 

[Lequack]

Re:

There's no way a lightweight can send live signals to the transmission relay plane like a motorbike and helicopter pairing does. A drone could offer some pre-recorded interest for highlights transmission, but the technology doesn't exist. You would need a drone the size of a motorbike to transmit to the plane and that would be as heavy as a motorbike anyway lol!

You can have a drone (or multiple drones) and helicopter pairing, which wouldn't be too different from the way signals are currently sent. Not only the added security but also all the angles that are impossible now, the pictures could be spectacular.

 

[samhocking]

The technology exists to transmit wirelessly from a drone to the ground for upto 500m. A motorbike will be required to keep within range to receive that signal. You're almost going backwards in terms of requring a drone to motorbike pairing as well as the motorbike to helicopter relay pairing to the plane circling overhead. The technology is simply not there yet. We'll see it on bikes, but not in the air where a drone needs to be also travelling at 50kmh to keep up with the action.

 

[Lequack]

Re:

The technology exists to transmit wirelessly from a drone to the ground for upto 500m. A motorbike will be required to keep within range to receive that signal. You're almost going backwards in terms of requring a drone to motorbike pairing as well as the motorbike to helicopter relay pairing to the plane circling overhead. The technology is simply not there yet. We'll see it on bikes, but not in the air where a drone needs to be also travelling at 50kmh to keep up with the action.

Why not drone to helicopter transmission, like with motorbike to helicopter now? I don't think the speed and range would be a problem, you can always have multiple drones/batteries on board.

Example footage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ94R4LC9ig

 

[samhocking]

Was that footage transmitted live to a moving vehicle on the ground and recorded/relayed though? I doubt it. It looks pre-recorded to SD Card.
I've looked into this technology and live tv from a drone is barely possible to a fixed base, letalone a bike race moving at 50 kmh around the countryside. The logistics of it are also mindbogglingly tricky.

 

[Billie]

You guys are all missing the point. Go to YouTube, check races from 20-30 years ago, see the difference, and now we talk. Great broadcasts, in many cases better than what we get these days, nothing like this nonsense when GVA loses a race unbeknownst to all of us, no accidents like when Sagan gets wrecked and others barb-wired, or when Antoine gets his life cut short.

In the meantime the CPA and the UCI do nothing. Nothing.

San Remo 1993: Fondriest wins from an attack and gets hold up by a batch of photographers 20 metres after the finish line. The car with the race director cannot pass them and stops 15 metres after the finish line. Ofcourse half of the sprinting peloton crashes into the car at over 60 km/h.

Accidents like this are from all times.

 

[Gigs_98]

The reason why I don't want drones to film any sport events:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAOzOlV3wm0
Wow, so safe

 

[Lequack]

The reason why I don't want drones to film any sport events:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAOzOlV3wm0
Wow, so safe

I saw that live. But that is just one incident, and drones could possibly be made not to ride directly over riders and so on.

 

[Echoes]

Hang on... are you saying that each individual newspaper/magazine have their own personal photographers?
Why not just have one set of Official Race Photographers, which the various media then have to pay a small fee - size depending of the size of the media - in order to use. Sure, it'll mean that all the various media will be illustrating their stories with the same pictures, but well; it'll be the same story! Race reports will have to same winners on the pictures...
And maybe local photographers could "get the gig", so to speak.

Provided the race organization can pay for photographers.

Anyway I said in a PM to BigMac that I agreed with him but he does not even read my PM's, so I post it here:

"Your example (which I didn't know about) is something we agree on [...]. I should have made that clear on my post, I'm sorry. I don't think foreign media should have a place there."

I know that's my sovereigntism speaking but for sure a Spanish sport mag should never be entitled to cover the Tour of Algarve.

I knew you'd pick on that.

You must have some telepathic skills because I did not intend at first to post. Was hesitating : "do I" or "don't I" Eventually I did but I could have refrained.

 

[Ricco']

Provided the race organization can pay for photographers.

Well, to be fair they don't need to pay.

If they were to limit the number of photographers in the race for a sole provider, that even could be a source of revenue to the organization.

They could establish some kind of bid for the photographers, and the highest bidder could be the provider of the service, similar to what the local governments do when they want to hire a contractor or something like that. And the photographer could cover the costs of that bid by selling later the pictures to the media.

 

[Gigs_98]

The reason why I don't want drones to film any sport events:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAOzOlV3wm0
Wow, so safe

I saw that live. But that is just one incident, and drones could possibly be made not to ride directly over riders and so on.

If I'm right this was the first and only time they used drones to film a race. Moreover the drone also shouldnt fly directly over the slope but it did. Yeah, 1 in 100 maybe even 1000 or more drones would never have an accident but if one of these things crashes down into the peloton, it would be extremely dangerous.

 

[Tonton]

You guys are all missing the point. Go to YouTube, check races from 20-30 years ago, see the difference, and now we talk. Great broadcasts, in many cases better than what we get these days, nothing like this nonsense when GVA loses a race unbeknownst to all of us, no accidents like when Sagan gets wrecked and others barb-wired, or when Antoine gets his life cut short.

In the meantime the CPA and the UCI do nothing. Nothing.

San Remo 1993: Fondriest wins from an attack and gets hold up by a batch of photographers 20 metres after the finish line. The car with the race director cannot pass them and stops 15 metres after the finish line. Ofcourse half of the sprinting peloton crashes into the car at over 60 km/h.

Accidents like this are from all times.

Except that now is a all time high. Recognize that the increase in such accidents has been exponential. What used to be a once-a-year occurrence has become almost a daily thing...

 

[Tonton]

To Billie's point, photographers blocking the finish area has always been tolerated, and IMO change is needed. The same happened here, in '85. But look at the difference: a lot less vehicles, a really good broadcast...Echoes would agree, a great winner .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2BeM9xhdls

I think it's not so much about drones or no drones. It's about scaling back.

 

[veji11]

It is so painfully obvious that there are way too many vehicules on the race. You could cut the numbers of bikes by a good third without much difficulty. Add to this tighter protocols for overtaking (specific horns, group overtaking not individual ones, etc) and bette training and you'd have a way safer situation. Very very sad to see a death like this.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

I don't know what the answer is. The only official driver in races that are governed by the UCI are the head international commissaires. I'm pretty sure all other UCI, press, TV and sponsors official drivers in all races are governed by each countries national cycling federation, not the UCI. I would say the UCI could look at a BC style driver accreditation across the board. Works very well in BC on UK anyway.

Of course it works well in the UK. With half the field of a Euro race and infinitely less media on motorcycles. The comparisons is dreadfully poor.

I'm talking about how BC Coaching accreditation has now been set-up under BC now in UK and not accredited by clubs directly?

My point is, like BC, the UCI should bring all drivers of race vehicles under one UCI accreditation scheme for approval by a board of safety like how the BC coaching has now been set-up n UK. At the moment the UCI only accredit national commissare drivers, nobody else - that;s currently managed by each countries national cycling federation. A French TV cameraman will be accredited by French Cycling, an Italian press bike by Italian Cycling Federation - There's clearly nobody managing a cohesive accreditation for race vehicle drivers - this is my point.

Typical UK centric view of the world. ASO accredit all their drivers in races. This is governing body problem not a national federation issue.

 

[RedheadDane]

Hang on... are you saying that each individual newspaper/magazine have their own personal photographers?
Why not just have one set of Official Race Photographers, which the various media then have to pay a small fee - size depending of the size of the media - in order to use. Sure, it'll mean that all the various media will be illustrating their stories with the same pictures, but well; it'll be the same story! Race reports will have to same winners on the pictures...
And maybe local photographers could "get the gig", so to speak.

Provided the race organization can pay for photographers.

The various media wanting to use the pictures would have to pay, at least some of it.

 

[samhocking]

Re: Re:

I don't know what the answer is. The only official driver in races that are governed by the UCI are the head international commissaires. I'm pretty sure all other UCI, press, TV and sponsors official drivers in all races are governed by each countries national cycling federation, not the UCI. I would say the UCI could look at a BC style driver accreditation across the board. Works very well in BC on UK anyway.

Of course it works well in the UK. With half the field of a Euro race and infinitely less media on motorcycles. The comparisons is dreadfully poor.

I'm talking about how BC Coaching accreditation has now been set-up under BC now in UK and not accredited by clubs directly?

My point is, like BC, the UCI should bring all drivers of race vehicles under one UCI accreditation scheme for approval by a board of safety like how the BC coaching has now been set-up n UK. At the moment the UCI only accredit national commissare drivers, nobody else - that;s currently managed by each countries national cycling federation. A French TV cameraman will be accredited by French Cycling, an Italian press bike by Italian Cycling Federation - There's clearly nobody managing a cohesive accreditation for race vehicle drivers - this is my point.

Typical UK centric view of the world. ASO accredit all their drivers in races. This is governing body problem not a national federation issue.

You know as well as I do, the ASO are not running races under FFC rules so of course their drivers are not being accredited by FFC. Simple business model used by BC is one /i know of best, i'm not being centric about it, it's simply a practical business model for managing safety centrally, not like how cycling runs safety at the moment!

This is even more a reason to bring all rider & race vehicle safety under one roof that the UCI manages. Apart from the Chief commissair driver at Gent-Wevelgem, other drivers specific to Belgium (Belgium press, tv, radio bikes etc) will have been accredited by Belgian Cycling. This would apply all the way down to if they wanted to drive a vehicle in an Amateur race. I've driven support cars in UK road races and /i was accredited by British Cycling to be allowed to do this. National accreditation is how it works in all races run under their National Cycling Federation. If the Tour of Britain needed me as a driver, my BC accreditation would allow me to drive a vehicle in that race, I am not answerable to the UCI.
My point is, all safety should be under one roof, not ASO here, UCI there, National Fed everywhere else. All UCI and then you can make UCI answerable. The driver that killed, was affiliated by Belgium Cycling btw not UCI.

 

[jmdirt]

The devil's advocate arguments are tiresome. There are too many vehicles.

 

[Oldermanish]

Re:

The devil's advocate arguments are tiresome. There are too many vehicles.

USA Cycling just wants insurance and indemnification here in Washington State. Most support car drivers are amateur volunteers and reasonably skilled. The officials here have been pointlessly invasive on occasion; asking the moto drivers to take them up the road centerline to "control" the pack's position on the road. That has led to some scares and admonishments. Accreditation of some sort along with rider association feedback would go a long way. The riders in big events should definitely have a voice; they know where/when they've had problems. Through in the road furniture while you're at it...

 

[samhocking]

I just looked at the driver rules for UCI World Tour events and there have been changes in 2013 for the press drivers only. Before 2013 drivers only needed to be a holder of a "licence for a vehicle driver in a road event", which I believe is the one handed out by your national cycling federation via the UCI. Since 2013 however, press drivers now also need to hold a "driver's certificate delivered by the UCI" which is valid for 4 years and then after 4 years you renew via your National Federation like the licence for a vehicle driver in a road event. Although there seems to be more accidents with the additional certificate, it seems a step in the right direction. I would extend it to all drivers through, not just the press? I don't know out of Stig Broeckx, Peter Sagan, Greg van Avermaet or Jakob Fuglsang motorbike incidents which were press, officials, medics, support etc etc though.

 

[RedheadDane]

Broeckx was a medic...

And the attempt at reducing the number for de Panne doesn't seem to have worked too well...

https://twitter.com/MichaelMorkov/status/714847047850000386

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

All this threads and discussions about rider safety, and not a single mention of the prescription painkillers they take during the race?

 

[Robert5091]

Re:

All this threads and discussions about rider safety, and not a single mention of the prescription painkillers they take during the race?

You mean it's alright to run over a cyclist because they're full of painkillers anyway?!

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

All this threads and discussions about rider safety, and not a single mention of the prescription painkillers they take during the race?

You mean it's alright to run over a cyclist because they're full of painkillers anyway?!

Or maybe he means those taking loads of painkillers are barely able to control their bikes......

 

[frenchfry]

Re: Re:

Too many motos for four cyclists
https://youtu.be/J-V7n1qRyFM?t=2h54m48s

More to the point, look how close the first motorcycle is behind the back rider. If there was a crash it would go over all of them.

Definitely. That video is crazy. I wasn't expecting that many.

Again, I wasn't commenting on the amount of motobikes but the proximity.

Brings to mind the phrase "We had to destroy the village in order to save it."