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Reduce the Number of Cars and Motos!

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May 26, 2010
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Too much in this sport is taken for granted.

Too much is placed on winning.

UCI needs to, but probably wont, lok at a lot of things to improve the sport as a spectacle including the safety of its participants.

Riders need to form a proper union and not be afraid to down tools in order to get the respect and rights they deserve for taking the huge risks.

But don't hold your breath.
 
Mar 13, 2013
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PremierAndrew said:
How many times have you found yourself screaming at your screen for the moto to move further away on the descents in the last year? Why not stick to heli shots for descents?
I think cameras on bicycles would be great for this, and much safer.
 
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wrinklyvet said:
del1962 said:
They really do ned to do something about this, is there some form of certification they have to obtain before being a motoman in race, if not there should be
It is too soon to rush to judgement, as this motorcyclist had at least 20 years' experience in the sport. See http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/wanty-groupe-gobert-refuse-to-blame-moto-driver-for-death-of-antoine-demoitie-218519
Certainly it seems from the description (I don't need or want any more than that) that realistically the actual incident resulting in Demoitié's death was just terrible fortune, and not the product of either the number of motos or reckless/poor moto handling.

However, the fact that it happened on the same day as that picture that is supposedly of Kuznetsov but appears to be a motorcycle group ride emerged, and against a backdrop of increasingly frequent incidents between the motos and the riders, it is unsurprising that, whether or not this tragedy may have occurred regardless, this has spurred those in the sport to ask for action to be taken.
 
Apr 3, 2011
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I'm sorry to say that,being one of the least lawyer-loving creatures, but it looks like without a multimegamillion dollar trial nothing would change. The same as with Clinic issues - if all the others could sue and win megazillions from certain caught persons in damages, it would serve as real deterrent. It's all just a business, after all.
 
May 26, 2010
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harryh said:
Yeah there are a lot motos in that shot. But that shot is taken on a telephoto(long lens) and compresses the image making them all look much closer than they really are!

But how many are photographers?

How many are race commissaires?

How many are journalists?

How many are TV journalists?

What else are motos used for?

The motos in that shot are not affecting the race, are not a danger and are out of harms way.

Would people do away with the neutral support cars or reduce it to 1 and it either sits behind lead break or in front of the race till a lead break forms with a minute gap?
 
In the '80s for example, race coverage was great with a lot less vehicles. Why not go back to that? And how about implementing a set of rules including no passing zones (i.e. downhill, in towns), speed limits...

I'm livid: if we can come up with sensible observations, then wtf are the worthless CPA and UCI not doing their job? Riders need a real representation, a voice, and the powers-that-be need to listen to them. I blame the CPA, Bugno and the good ol' boys for their incompetence. With regards to safety, pay, even doping, it's time for the riders to be part of the solution. If not write, at least actively participate in writing the rules. And the lack of proper riders' representation shouldn't be an excuse for UCI bosses to sit on their a**es and do nothing.
 
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Netserk said:
RedheadDane said:
Can't help but wonder if maybe we, the spectators and fans, have even a tiny part of the blame.
It seems that we've become... too expectant; always demanding the best images of the action right when it happens. Maybe we just need to accept that sometimes the only pictures we'll get will be far-off pictures from the back of the peloton, or high-up pictures taken from a helicopter.
When was the last incident involving a camera (television) bike?
Neal Rogers mentions 8 incidents the last 12 months, including GVA at San Sebastian, Fuglsang at the Tour, and Sagan and Paulinho at the Vuelta (although his list is not limited to TV and camera motos but includes all race vehicles).
 
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el_angliru said:
Netserk said:
RedheadDane said:
Can't help but wonder if maybe we, the spectators and fans, have even a tiny part of the blame.
It seems that we've become... too expectant; always demanding the best images of the action right when it happens. Maybe we just need to accept that sometimes the only pictures we'll get will be far-off pictures from the back of the peloton, or high-up pictures taken from a helicopter.
When was the last incident involving a camera (television) bike?
Neal Rogers mentions 8 incidents the last 12 months, including GVA at San Sebastian, Fuglsang at the Tour, and Sagan and Paulinho at the Vuelta.
From what I read, he's talking about race motos. I'm talking specifically about television motorbikes.
 
Netserk said:
From what I read, he's talking about race motos. I'm talking specifically about television motorbikes.
I know. I edited my post to stress this - must have happened while you were posting your reply (which I've quoted here).
 
Jul 5, 2011
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Outside of racing conditions if you run over/strike someone who is already lying on the road you are to blame. End of. I dont see why it should be so different because its in a race. No doubt it all happened in the blink of an eye, these things always do. Thats why the normal rules have to apply, you allow enough space and time for the unexpected.
So often we see motos ripping past riders very fast, they dont apply the 'what if?' principle which is one of the main staples of the UK highway code at least.
Someone made a valid point that moto riders should be ex or curent bike racers. Races I've been in which had moto coverage I always noticed it made a big difference.
 
May 26, 2010
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rainman said:
Outside of racing conditions if you run over/strike someone who is already lying on the road you are to blame. End of. I dont see why it should be so different because its in a race. No doubt it all happened in the blink of an eye, these things always do. Thats why the normal rules have to apply, you allow enough space and time for the unexpected.
So often we see motos ripping past riders very fast, they dont apply the 'what if?' principle which is one of the main staples of the UK highway code at least.
Someone made a valid point that moto riders should be ex or curent bike racers. Races I've been in which had moto coverage I always noticed it made a big difference.
If you are going to impose standard road behaviour onto race vehicles in a situation (ie a race) which has little standard road behaviour it wont work.

Dont get the point of moto pilots needing to be ex riders! Racing 20 years ago is different from racing today some would argue.

I think riders need to take a lot of responsibility for their racing.
 
Apr 12, 2009
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Outside of racing conditions if you run over someone who falls right in front of you, you are not to blame. This terrible terrible accident will be investigated just like every other accident.
This motorider had 30 years of experience, and was known as a very carefull driver.
 
Jul 5, 2011
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Just from my own observations some motos are very much part of the peloton and understand the sometimes outlandish condiions (crosswinds etc)that prevail. Others dont seem to have the same feel for the race and just bull through.
I hope the moto guy was not to blame and it was just a freak accident, but some sort of changes are needed, either numbers involved or simply attitude.
One young rider is not with us today, who really, really should be.
 
Aug 4, 2011
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If we can reduce the road traffic then that would make sense. What is important is that the traffic in the race understand what's going on and can handle the situations that occur in a race. No stupid chances must be taken and if in doubt they should back off. it tends to be a stupid move/chance taken , that causes most accidents.
But accidents will occur whatever rules you put in place.
 
Jun 10, 2013
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I'm willing to bet a huge deal of those motos belong to some minor newspapper or sports mag which any race could do without. Reminds me of the alleged tow Contador got from a Ciclismo a Fondo motorbike two years ago on Malhão. Was the presence of a Spanish magazine reporter in the race caravane really needed? Of course not.
 
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Buffalo Soldier said:
Outside of racing conditions if you run over someone who falls right in front of you, you are not to blame. This terrible terrible accident will be investigated just like every other accident.
This motorider had 30 years of experience, and was known as a very carefull driver.
Outside of racing conditions, it is your responsibility to make sure that there is enough distance between you and any other traffic to emergency brake. Not saying that the moto was at fault in this case, because it seems like it wasn't according to all sources, but in most accidents, the moto would be at least 5% at fault
 
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Buffalo Soldier said:
Outside of racing conditions if you run over someone who falls right in front of you, you are not to blame. This terrible terrible accident will be investigated just like every other accident.
This motorider had 30 years of experience, and was known as a very carefull driver.
That is rather a ridiculous analogy. On the open roads there is road rules providing cars/motos/riders direction of the road to operate within.

In a cycling race they use the whole road with both cyclists and motos passing from each side. A moto should very much expect that a rider will fall, that's why they need to keep a safe distance at all times unless passing.

You see many races where a moto wants to get up the road but can't pass, so they wait behind the rider or riders for the opportunity to slip through. That is where the problem lies, distance and the sheer number of photographers all trying to complete for the best picture of the day.
 
BigMac said:
I'm willing to bet a huge deal of those motos belong to some minor newspapper or sports mag which any race could do without.

Do you then suggest it cannot do without the major papers or mags? Sounds pretty elitist, un-you. &#128528 I'd say the only motorbikes allowed should be the ones the TV broadcasters covering the races and the officials. Plus, a few minor LOCAL newspapers or sport mags.
 
Jun 10, 2013
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Echoes said:
BigMac said:
I'm willing to bet a huge deal of those motos belong to some minor newspapper or sports mag which any race could do without.

Do you then suggest it cannot do without the major papers or mags? Sounds pretty elitist, un-you. &#128528 I'd say the only motorbikes allowed should be the ones the TV broadcasters covering the races and the officials. Plus, a few minor LOCAL newspapers or sport mags.
I knew you'd pick on that. ;) That's not what I meant, bad wording I guess. What I'm saying is that the least possible number of vehicles should be in the race, and by that I mean TV, commissaires, a few local newspappers and pretty much none else. I get local newspappers covering local races, and I think they should, but on the bigger events, which come across various localities, more of the small media would be entitled to be on the caravane, meaning not enough space for everyone. If it's possible to filter just one or two local newspappers, that's cool, but some should stay out. Following my example, I'm totally cool with some Algarvian press having motos on the Volta ao Algarve, but I don't understand the Ciclismo a Fondo moto being there. :)

And yes, I may be sounding unfair as these races were local races before they rose to a higher status.
 
Re:

Lequack said:
What about using lightweight drones?
Who would direct them and where would he be?

I am drawn to the comments of V.I.Lenin under the original CN article "Antoine Demoitié dies following Gent-Wevelgem crash" and I see the need for many motos under the present arrangements. He makes realistic and knowledgeable contributions, tempering some of the less considered posts.

Whether or not drones would reduce the essential traffic or reduce risks is somewhat debatable.
 
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wrinklyvet said:
Lequack said:
What about using lightweight drones?
Who would direct them and where would he be?

I am drawn to the comments of V.I.Lenin under the original CN article "Antoine Demoitié dies following Gent-Wevelgem crash" and I see the need for many motos under the present arrangements. He makes realistic and knowledgeable contributions, tempering some of the less considered posts.

Whether or not drones would reduce the essential traffic or reduce risks is somewhat debatable.
V.I.Lenin makes some very good points indeed. However, someone please explain how come '80s races had way less vehicles, way less accidents of this kind, and yet broadcasts were as good if not better (i.e. Catalunya) than today. "It is what it is" doesn't cut it for me.
 

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