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Reduce the Number of Cars and Motos!

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Tonton said:
hrotha said:
Ryongsyong said:
Wow, what an idiot. That was completely his fault. You can't just ride into a motorbike from behind and then blame it for being there.
Of course you can blame a motorbike for blocking the most natural racing line.
+1. It's a bike race on a closed course. The hitting from behind argument that D&C makes is valid in normal traffic conditions, not here. The motorcycle is at the end of a curb, on the most obvious trajectory, completely at fault IMO.
While it was slow, there were no sudden moves. I think it's a bit presumptuous to always expect that there is nothing wrong with the motorcycle and it could always accelerate out of your way.
 
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roundabout said:
While it was slow, there were no sudden moves. I think it's a bit presumptuous to always expect that there is nothing wrong with the motorcycle and it could always accelerate out of your way.
I'm not too sure that he saw the motorcycle slowing down at the end of the curb, and when he did, Paulinho had already committed to his trajectory. And although I think it is their number that is the primary concern, I also see a clear change in philosophy wrt cars and motorcycles in races in recent years. The drivers don't choose safe spots to pass, don't always use the horn, they squeeze whenever they think they can. See Quintana at l'Alpe d'Huez when he swung to the left to rid himself of Ryder. Near miss.
 
Jul 25, 2010
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Was there an "incident" involving Roche and another team's car a few days ago? I've seen times when team cars show an apparent disregard for other riders in their haste to get to one of their own riders. :mad:
 
I was finally able to watch Il Lonbardia. I saw a moto almost change the outcome several times. There were five motos around VN, four with the chase group and two in the gap...that seems excessive.
 
Jul 9, 2015
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roundabout said:
While it was slow, there were no sudden moves. I think it's a bit presumptuous to always expect that there is nothing wrong with the motorcycle and it could always accelerate out of your way.
You do realize that this Paulinho crash is almost the same scenario as the one that took out Taylor Phinney for over a year, do you? Moto ahead of riders, clearing the sharp turn and instead of speeding up to get out of the way, it slowed down instead and end up getting hit? (You can't expect riders to hit the break during the turn... that's a good crash recipe in itself).
 
Mar 14, 2009
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jmdirt said:
:confused: :mad: :( The motos are already at it again in 2016!
Too many of them and most of all too close.

By "too close" I dont only mean in a dangerous way, most too close by providing a draft opportunities. How many times did I see a TV camera bike riding just a few meters in front of the breakaway or peloton and closing the gap for the peloton?
 
Jan 20, 2010
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Standing roadside watching these races it's ridiculous just how many motos there are and how they get in the way of fans actually watching the race. We want to watch the riders, not three of four motos at a time surrounding the riders with tv cameras and cameras.

Should be one tv moto on break, minimum 15 metres from riders unless passing.
One tv moto on bunch, same distance. Other breaks can be covered by helicopter.

Medics all behind peloton, one called through if break say more than ten riders when gap gets over two minutes.

Photographers. Cut back to 5 or 6 and any incidents with riders you get a two year break from motos on course. In fact I wouldn't argue with making all motos use back roads around course instead of being on it.

Far too many crashes between riders and motos.
 
Jul 22, 2015
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Night Rider said:
Standing roadside watching these races it's ridiculous just how many motos there are and how they get in the way of fans actually watching the race. We want to watch the riders, not three of four motos at a time surrounding the riders with tv cameras and cameras.
Same with watching on tv, I really don't like seeing all those motos overshadowing the riders.
 
Sep 10, 2013
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Interesting thread on a subject that should be given more prominence and investigation. A lot of questions are raised about the qualification and training of the moto riders, as well as their behaviour, so I sought out an aquaintance who I knew does this work to try to ascertain some facts.

He couldn't tell me about UCI races on the continent but, here in the UK, no moto rider is allowed in any race (even local amateur) unless he is qualified to British Cycling's standard and carries a BC licence showing that he is part of the recoginsed National Escort Group (NEG). That qualification includes first passing recognised advanced rider training and test (the same as police riders have to take), then taking a theory test in the operation of the race convoy, dealing with junctions, motorists and other hazards specific to a bike race. Only after this is he allowed into races where he is then shadowed by an experienced NEG rider until he shows he is capable of performing the basic tasks whilst keeping himself, the riders and the public safe. This is usually a minimum of six races but can be more, with some riders never making the grade and not being able to take part at all. After this there is a grading system of 3 levels and these indicate in which level of race they work or the type of task to which they're deployed. In between the levels, other training has to be done, such as a race commissaire's course.

My friend added that despite this, and all the experience of his colleagues, there are still very occasionally incidents which strangely seem to happen in the higher level races where there are closed roads. His opinion is that in this situation the racers tend to drop their concentration and forward vision, assuming nothing is going to be in their way and hammer on "with their race face on". Whilst in an ideal world there should be nothing in their way, a road race moves through very varied, public terrain which is impossible to control completely.

He also said that getting past the peloton is sometimes incredibly difficult, with riders moving off line without looking or even swarming round the moto itself, so for this reason the overtake is done as quickly as possible. However, in his opinion none of the recent accidents on the continent should have happened at all and the motos seemed to have very poor training and observation.
 
Jan 20, 2010
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RedheadDane said:
Why was that medic moto even trying to pass the peloton anyway? There was no other crash!
And then he didn't even stop to help out with the crash he caused...
That was the idiotic part. Every man and his dog wants to be "other" side of the finish line to see the finish. Like how many times is there a pile up after the finish compared to the 3km before the finish? The best place for the medic moto was staying behind the peloton.
 
First, I'm sending all of my positive energy to Antoine! EDIT: My thoughts are with his family!

Second, WTH?! What is it going to take?! EDIT: If lost races and injuries aren't enough, a young man's death should be.
 
From the other thread.

Libertine Seguros said:
Gigs_98 said:
I just can't believe this is happening. You know, there are motorcycle collisions like GVA in San Sebastian last year which are simply annoyingly but this is just unbelievable. Even the race organizers now have to see that they have to reduce the number of motos. They can't ignore it any longer.
Even though the GVA one was perhaps more avoidable a collision than this one, there's also ones like the Sagan one in the Vuelta which was just totally unnecessary. The bolded is key. Unfortunately, I'm afraid this is the Dan Wheldon moment. The Indycar Series had safety issues around oval racing for some time, and they'd had some lucky escapes, just as we've had in cycling with moto/cyclist collisions. The handling of the motos and their increasing numbers has become more and more of an issue recently, and there have been a lot more collisions in the last couple of years than I can ever remember before. But just like with the Indycars, once it becomes clear in the worst possible way what the consequences are, you can't put it off anymore. Maybe the incident was unavoidable and Demoitié was just the unlucky one. But if there are any lessons to learn, we'd better learn them before anybody else has to pay this price.

Not that that will be any consolation to Antoine's family, friends or loved ones, nor should it be of course.
Though we don't know exactly what happened this time, it seems many of the incidents (Sagan, Broeckx etc) are caused by motos speeding through the peloton and being unable to react to rider movements. Clearly today there was some speed involved so that seems to be a big issue here.

And yes having so many motos is insane, not every one is necessary.


Exactly a month ago today I wrote
Hopefully the sport’s governing body take notice of BMC manager Jim Ochowicz, who once again called for action to be taken. In an already risky sport, the additional chance of serious injury or worse is unacceptable and if ever there was an issue for the UCI to act swiftly on, this is it.
and I never imagined that this would happen so quickly.

It's sad that it was always obvious something like this would happen before the UCI does anything.
 
Mar 14, 2009
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Dear UCI please lower the number of motorbikes and cars ... people are getting hurt and dying. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE wake up and do something about it.
 
Can't help but wonder if maybe we, the spectators and fans, have even a tiny part of the blame.
It seems that we've become... too expectant; always demanding the best images of the action right when it happens. Maybe we just need to accept that sometimes the only pictures we'll get will be far-off pictures from the back of the peloton, or high-up pictures taken from a helicopter.
 
Re:

RedheadDane said:
Can't help but wonder if maybe we, the spectators and fans, have even a tiny part of the blame.
It seems that we've become... too expectant; always demanding the best images of the action right when it happens. Maybe we just need to accept that sometimes the only pictures we'll get will be far-off pictures from the back of the peloton, or high-up pictures taken from a helicopter.
When was the last incident involving a camera (television) bike?
 
Jun 24, 2013
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I saw the crash and it is easy to lay blame at someone if you weren't there, but I think it was just really unfortunate circumstances!
— Reinardt Jv Rensburg (@ReinvanRensburg) March 28, 2016
 
Motos are a necessity in our sport for both security and media presence. It's their conduct and the direction that needs governance.

Passing the peloton on downhills and during crucial moments in a race, when speed is high and fight for position frantic is just not safe
Dan Martin on twitter

As much as I agree with his 2nd point, not every moto is necessary, and the number could certainly be reduced.

You could argue that TV coverage isn't as important as a risk to life, but then if TV coverage suffered and viewership and interest in cycling fell as a result, it's possible that cycling would no longer be a viable career for those who aren't top superstars, and this isn't needed to make cycling safe. Instead, we could have less neutral service motos, but its their behaviour that's most important.

How many times have you found yourself screaming at your screen for the moto to move further away on the descents in the last year? Why not stick to heli shots for descents?

As much as this accident doesn't seem to be the fault of the moto, it's vital that the UCI wakes up, or it's just going to continue to get worse.
 

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